Hi all,

 

The question to me remains:

While we are tasked to review the recommendations whether they are fit for purpose, this may result in a situation where the implementation of the rest will result in a meaningless, wasteful or incomplete policy.

 

With the changes that have occurred since the recommendations were first reached resulting from both new policies on registration data and the legislative requirements resulting form regulations like NIS2, many of the current recommendations have been rendered obsolete at best and conflicting at worst.

 

We should also consider that the entirety of the recommendations was the result of a carefully balanced compromise. Throwing out or replacing part of the original compromise can result in the remaining recommendations being unbalanced, essentially unravelling the entirety of the compromise.

 

With this background, I would suggest drilling down to the essence of each recommendation to see what it was intended to achieve instead of worshipping the text of it as if it were a holy relic from ages past. If that is beyond our remit then we need to send the entire policy back to the GNSO, ideally with initial suggestions of what a modern PPSAI regulatory framework that it fit for purpose.

 

-- 

Sincerely,

Volker Greimann
General Counsel - Registrar Division

volker.greimann@centralnic.com
Office: +49-172-6367025
Web: www.teaminternet.com

Team Internet Group PLC (AIM:TIG).

Registered Office: 4th Floor, Saddlers House, 44 Gutter Lane, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 6BR.

Team Internet is a company registered in England and Wales with the company number 8576358.

 

 

 

 

From: Alan Greenberg via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Date: Wednesday, 11. December 2024 at 05:20
To: PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Paul McGrady <paul@elstermcgrady.com>, Owen Smigelski <owen.smigelski@namecheap.com>, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, Alan Greenberg <greenberg.alan@gmail.com>
Subject: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: [Ext] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

Agreeing with Michele, we are charged with identifying any recommendations that are not fit for purpose. But it is not within our scope to change the intent of those recommendations.

 

IRT virtually always result in a written policy that differs in wording from that used in the recommendations. This is often necessary to ensure clarity and implementability.

 

If a definition needs to be re-worded to ensure it is understandable and clear, and does NOT change the intent of the original wording, I believe that this is within the IRT's scope.

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 6:58 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org> wrote:

Paul

 

Also agreed. I’d simply view it as if the policy / outcome is no longer fit for purpose then it should be addressed

There’s no point in wasting time, energy or money on trying to implement a policy that doesn’t fit with reality.

And there’s a lot of things that neither of us like, but that’s not a good reason to change them.

 

Now when I’m anointed supreme being that might change of course …

 

Regards

 

Michele

 

 

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

https://www.blacknight.com/

https://blacknight.blog/

Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072

Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090

Personal blog: https://michele.blog/

Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

 

I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.

 

 

From: Paul McGrady <paul@elstermcgrady.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 December 2024 at 23:48
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Owen Smigelski <owen.smigelski@namecheap.com>
Subject: RE: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: [Ext] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.

Agree. And what is sent back to Council should be rooted in a change to law, ICANN policy, or industry technology that has taken place after Council passed these Recommendations to the Board. This cannot be a “I don’t like the outcomes of the PDP so this is my chance to relitigate” exercise. That is a nonstarter.

 

Best to all,

Paul

 

 

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 5:41 PM
To: PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Owen Smigelski <owen.smigelski@namecheap.com>; Paul McGrady <paul@elstermcgrady.com>
Subject: Re: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: [Ext] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

 

You don't often get email from michele@blacknight.com. Learn why this is important

Exactly

The IRT is meant to implement the output of the PDP.

If people feel that something is “off” then it should be sent back to Council etc., - it is NOT for the IRT to make policy.

 

Regards

 

Michele

 

 

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

https://www.blacknight.com/

https://blacknight.blog/

Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072e I

Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090

Personal blog: https://michele.blog/

Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

 

I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.

 

 

From: Paul McGrady via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Date: Tuesday, 10 December 2024 at 23:18
To: PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Owen Smigelski <owen.smigelski@namecheap.com>, Paul McGrady <paul@elstermcgrady.com>
Subject: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: [Ext] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.

Agree with Own and Reg. An IRT can’t change definitions in the Final Report and then implement what we wish the Final Report said.  If the IRT believes a change to the Final Report is needed, that should be flagged as for Council to consider, not for the IRT to do on its own.

 

Best,

Paul

 

 

 

From: Owen Smigelski via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2024 4:51 PM
To: PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Owen Smigelski <owen.smigelski@namecheap.com>
Subject: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: [Ext] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

 

Dennis,

 

I agree with Reg, and will go even further: it is not within the remit of an IRT to make any changes to the Final Report and recommendations contained therein. There can be changes to the Final Report via the GNSO Council prior to adoption by the Board, but once approved by the Board, the IRT is "convened to assist staff in developing the implementation details for the policy to ensure that the implementation conforms to the intent of the policy recommendations” (quoting the GNSO Implementation Review Team (IRT) Principles & Guidelines). 

 

Changes to the Final Report, no matter how laudable, desirable, or logical, are completely outside of the scope of an IRT. Hard stop. To the extent the IRT can implement the recommendations with tweaks, those changes must align with the intent of the Final Report. 

 

Regards,

 

Owen

 

On Dec 10, 2024, at 14:36, Reg Levy via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org> wrote:

 

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Dennis—

 

I’m very hesitant to make any changes to Working Group Recommendation language as the Implementation Review Team. This is a job for the Working Group itself. However reasonable we find the changes to be, it sets a very concerning precedent for the Policy Development Process.

 

Servus,

Reg

 

--

Reg Levy | Associate General Counsel – Domains

+1 (323) 880-0831

Tucows #MakingTheInternetBetter

UTC -8

 

On Dec 10, 2024, at 06:50, Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org> wrote:

 

13 Dec 2024: IRT Task due Date. 

19 Dec 2024: IRT Meeting Date

 

Thanks Brian, Reg, and those making comments on the doc for TQ A.

The topic is “Changes to Definition Language.”

I’d like the IRT to consider beyond the Principled position of NO CHANGE at ALL.

At the lowest level of change are the typos and grammar.  Then word changes to reflect currency and clarity etc.

 

We will need to create our own draft of the definition for our implementation.

Could this be done without making any changes?

 

For example, we can look at the work done by the 2016 IRT here.

Final Report Definition

P/P AA Definition

"Privacy Service" means a service by which a Registered Name is registered to its beneficial user as the Registered Name Holder, but for which alternative, reliable contact information is provided by the privacy or proxy service provider for display of the Registered Name Holder's contact information in the Registration Data Service (WHOIS) or equivalent services.

1.24 “Privacy Service” means a service by which a Registered Name is registered to a Customer as the Registered Name Holder, but for which alternative, reliable contact information is provided by Provider for display in the Registration Data Directory Service rather than the Customer’s contact information in the Registration Data Directory Service.

 

 

Please complete this task this week.   

Task#

    IRT Tasks (Homework)

Due Date

20241205

TQ A. Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance.

13 Dec 2024

 

Thanks you!

Dennis Chang

 

From: BECKHAM Brian <brian.beckham@wipo.int>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2024 at 11:14 PM
To: "PPSAI IRT members, including observers" <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org>, Reg Levy <rlevy@tucows.com>
Subject: [Ext] RE: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

 

Hi Reg, Denis, all,

 

I have added a comment in the document (I may be misunderstanding the relation here, but question 2 seems to be linked to question 1, and question 3 flows from that connection).

 

Please can we also attribute the “concerns and inputs” to individuals to give them context.

 

More fundamentally however, we seem to be missing the core question of whether subsequent events (e.g., GDPR and NIS2) somehow “overtake” the PPSAI recommendations such that they need to be reconsidered in whole or in part.  Perhaps that is the gist of question 3, but it is not immediately clear to me if that is the case.

 

I also think questions such as “would this require a new contract” or things to that effect are beyond the scope of this IRT and need not be asked here.

 

Brian

 

PS, it may only be me, but there still seems to be an issue with the mtg ICS invites.

 

From: Reg Levy via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2024 10:56 PM
To: PPSAI IRT members, including observers <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org>
Cc: Dennis S. Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org>; Reg Levy <rlevy@tucows.com>
Subject: [Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl] Re: IRT Task 20241205: TQ.A: Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions for GNSO Council Guidance. Due: 13 Dec 2024

 

Dennis—

 

Thank you! I’ve made some comments/edits to the document. There is no confusion about who the party responsible for the domain is—it is the  registrant, in all cases. Where a service is affiliated with a registrar, the registrar has that information (and no other). Where a service is not affiliated with a registrar, that service is the registrant, whether or not it is apparent that a service exists.

 

I’m pretty sure only the first question needs to be asked. The second two questions assume that the IRT can subvert the PDP by creating policy, which is the job of the working group, not of the IRT. Or of Council.

 

Servus,

Reg

 

--

Reg Levy | Associate General Counsel – Domains

+1 (323) 880-0831

Tucows #MakingTheInternetBetter

UTC -8

 

On Dec 5, 2024, at 13:26, Dennis Chang via Gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl <gdd-gnso-ppsai-impl@icann.org> wrote:

 

Dear IRT,

 

Thanks to those communicating to us about the missing calendar invitation for today’s meeting. 

Per your suggestion, we cancelled today’s meeting, 

 

Our team here is double checking the tool and process on our side and will refresh the invitations going forward. 

I addition, we will take up on the offer by a some of you to help us test early to confirm the receipt of the calendar invitations on your side.

 

Below is a task, I had intended to assign at the meeting today with explanation.

We did not meet but it’s important that we don’t lose momentum, so we’ll go ahead and start this work via this email.

20241205

TQ A. Provide feedback to on Draft Language for IRT Threshold Questions[docs.google.com] for GNSO Council Guidance.

13 Dec 2024

 

When you open the document, you will see the “About” and “Instructions” which I hope will sufficiently explain your task.

Please don’t hesitate to ask if you’d like further info.

 

One note about the expand/collapse heading feature.  

You may see only the headers when you open the document.  Please note “>” or “v” appeal when you place your curser over the Section header.

You’ll see a message “Expand Heading” or “Collapse Heading” that you can click on to reveal or hide the content of the section. 

I find this new feature very helpful in orienting and organizing our work and I’d like us to use it.

 

At this time of this email, you’ll see TQ A populated with the Draft Language for Questions to GNSO with the “Status: Initial draft review by IRT (5 Dec 2024)”

TQ B below is also there being set up with the status “ICANN org drafting.”  

We plan to issue separate tasks for each TQ work to keep us together as we move forward.

 

Thank you all for your continued support and contribution.  

Our staff here felt very badly about what happened with the calendar meeting invites but also remarked how cooperative, flexible, and understanding the IRT is working with us a team and even encouraging us.

 

We indeed have the most excellent IRT.  Thank you!

 

Gratefully Yours,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Programs Director

Phone: +1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org  One World – One Internet

 

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