FW: On the proposed guidance
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned. As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction. Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy
Hi Milton, essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data. And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH* T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s
proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
Dr. Milton L Mueller
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Public Policy
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Let me go on the record that I also like the idea. I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level. Best, Thomas
Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>:
Hi Milton,
essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data.
And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org <mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s
proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
Dr. Milton L Mueller
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Public Policy
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2). However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition of SSAD as the solution here. Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused. Brian J. King Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group T +1 443 761 3726 clarivate.com On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote: Let me go on the record that I also like the idea. I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level. Best, Thomas Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>>: Hi Milton, essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data. And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_&d...> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned. As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction. Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Depdp-2Dteam&d=DwMFaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=X6pN0o-2i1MmkNU25SuEeN8oV8d98i2CNKj3g-jjirE&s=xCrS5DxPYNCapNFeUw801Nvw7kIjTySgfeAARmYPCNU&e=> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_policy&d=DwMFaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=X6pN0o-2i1MmkNU25SuEeN8oV8d98i2CNKj3g-jjirE&s=qRSwC1FEY-KyOow9ajfhM8AjKV_9HCSb876d6DrJ2hk&e=>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_tos&d=DwMFaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=X6pN0o-2i1MmkNU25SuEeN8oV8d98i2CNKj3g-jjirE&s=Jl8ui2sOxtrAYNH5iYwuqQdGAgYx87bk7eN37B_G1iI&e=>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li... _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p... ) and the website Terms of Service (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t... ). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. Confidentiality note: This e-mail may contain confidential information from Clarivate. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately.
Brian, in all openness, the only ones standing in the way of SSAD right now are IPC, BC and maybe parts of ALAC. Consensus in the meaning of "consensus policy" does not mean full consensus, it means a qualified majority on the GNSO policy, and SSAD had and has that. Ultimately, we will not need your agreement. We may decide to build it this way to satisfy our legal requirement under NIS2. But now you still have an opportunity to influence how this is going to look. Wear your registrar hat for a while and you will see this is the only other way besides the status quo that has any chance of success. If you have specific concerns with what I proposed as a way out of this conundrum, by all means, put them on the table, but if all you are going to do is total opposition, your points are moot as you are then clearly not interested in finding a workable solution. Live a little and say yes to reason... -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH* T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 3:15 PM King, Brian <Brian.King@markmonitor.com> wrote:
I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2).
However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition of SSAD as the solution here.
Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused.
*Brian J. King* Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group
T +1 443 761 3726
*clarivate.com <http://clarivate.com>*
On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Let me go on the record that I also like the idea.
I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level.
Best, Thomas
Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>:
Hi Milton,
essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data.
And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_&d...>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s
proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
Dr. Milton L Mueller
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Public Policy
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org
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Hi Brian, You have noted this European Commission advice twice now. both here and in the homework document comments. I need not say that our statements in this process have very large importance to the progression of this process, and I can but urge caution in categorical statements. If you can provide us with a copy of or a link to legal advice described, as formally issued by the Commission, regarding the implementation of the draft proposed directive (not to mention individual member state implementation) and how that applies to the SSAD, or more to the point why current proposed method does not meet 'publication requirements', then I think we would all be very interested in reviewing that. If not, I think we should continue to consider the path forward here that has been proposed. Thank you. [image: Donuts Inc.] <http://donuts.domains/> Alan Woods Senior Manager, Compliance & Policy, Donuts Inc. ------------------------------ Donuts Ground Floor Le Pole House Ship Street Great Dublin 8 <https://www.facebook.com/donutstlds> <https://twitter.com/DonutsInc> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/donuts-inc> Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Donuts Inc. . Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you. On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 2:15 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2).
However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition of SSAD as the solution here.
Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused.
*Brian J. King* Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group
T +1 443 761 3726
*clarivate.com <http://clarivate.com>*
On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Let me go on the record that I also like the idea.
I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level.
Best, Thomas
Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>:
Hi Milton,
essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data.
And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_&d...>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s
proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
Dr. Milton L Mueller
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Public Policy
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org
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Hi Alan, Sure thing. Melina (who wrote the NIS 2 Directive) clarified that point in her email on Tuesday. I’ve attached it here in hopes that the email list server doesn’t eat it. Brian King He/Him/His Head of Policy and Advocacy T +1 443 761 3726 Time zone: US Eastern clarivate.com<http://www.clarivate.com> | Accelerating innovation Follow us on LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/clarivate>, Twitter<https://twitter.com/clarivate?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%...>, Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/clarivate/> and Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/clarivateofficial/?hl=en> From: Alan Woods <alan@donuts.email> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 9:29 AM To: King, Brian <Brian.King@markmonitor.com> Cc: Thomas Rickert <epdp@gdpr.ninja>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the proposed guidance Hi Brian, You have noted this European Commission advice twice now. both here and in the homework document comments. I need not say that our statements in this process have very large importance to the progression of this process, and I can but urge caution in categorical statements. If you can provide us with a copy of or a link to legal advice described, as formally issued by the Commission, regarding the implementation of the draft proposed directive (not to mention individual member state implementation) and how that applies to the SSAD, or more to the point why current proposed method does not meet 'publication requirements', then I think we would all be very interested in reviewing that. If not, I think we should continue to consider the path forward here that has been proposed. Thank you. [Donuts Inc.]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__donuts.domains_&d=DwMFaQ...> Alan Woods Senior Manager, Compliance & Policy, Donuts Inc. ________________________________ Donuts Ground Floor Le Pole House Ship Street Great Dublin 8 [http://storage.googleapis.com/signaturesatori/icons/facebook.png]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_donutstlds&d=DwMFaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=3WvsbgLWHuw6IB33yCTLEv4KqPCG-tUA2m-KyRPBYq8&s=fukcwJm3IDC0SAu6i1wYU8WRqh7xwUwvGWXTAVPnZrQ&e=> [http://storage.googleapis.com/signaturesatori/icons/twitter.png] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_DonutsInc&d...> [http://storage.googleapis.com/signaturesatori/icons/linkedin.png] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_compan...> Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Donuts Inc. . Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you. On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 2:15 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>> wrote: I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2). However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition of SSAD as the solution here. Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused. Brian J. King Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group T +1 443 761 3726 clarivate.com<http://clarivate.com> On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>> wrote: Let me go on the record that I also like the idea. I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level. Best, Thomas Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>>: Hi Milton, essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data. And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is). -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_&d...> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned. As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction. 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That is but one opinion, Brian. As I have already outlined previously, common practice all over Europe disagrees with her. Data can be public even if they are behind a wall. No sane person in Germany would argue that the trade register is not public. And what is the implementation of the online access functionality of the German trade register but a light version of SSAD - exactly what I am proposing. You have the opportunity for a win here. Let's not waste it. -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH* T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 3:48 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Alan,
Sure thing. Melina (who wrote the NIS 2 Directive) clarified that point in her email on Tuesday. I’ve attached it here in hopes that the email list server doesn’t eat it.
*Brian King*
He/Him/His Head of Policy and Advocacy
T +1 443 761 3726
Time zone: US Eastern
clarivate.com <http://www.clarivate.com> | Accelerating innovation
Follow us on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/clarivate>, Twitter <https://twitter.com/clarivate?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%...>, Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/clarivate/> and Instagram <https://www.instagram.com/clarivateofficial/?hl=en>
*From:* Alan Woods <alan@donuts.email> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 9:29 AM *To:* King, Brian <Brian.King@markmonitor.com> *Cc:* Thomas Rickert <epdp@gdpr.ninja>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the proposed guidance
Hi Brian,
You have noted this European Commission advice twice now. both here and in the homework document comments. I need not say that our statements in this process have very large importance to the progression of this process, and I can but urge caution in categorical statements. If you can provide us with a copy of or a link to legal advice described, as formally issued by the Commission, regarding the implementation of the draft proposed directive (not to mention individual member state implementation) and how that applies to the SSAD, or more to the point why current proposed method does not meet 'publication requirements', then I think we would all be very interested in reviewing that.
If not, I think we should continue to consider the path forward here that has been proposed.
Thank you.
[image: Donuts Inc.] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__donuts.domains_&d=DwMFaQ...>
* Alan Woods*
Senior Manager, Compliance & Policy, Donuts Inc. ------------------------------
Donuts
Ground Floor
Le Pole House
Ship Street Great
Dublin 8
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_donuts...>
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_DonutsInc&d...>
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Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Donuts Inc. . Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you.
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 2:15 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2).
However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition of SSAD as the solution here.
Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused.
*Brian J. King* Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group
T +1 443 761 3726
*clarivate.com <http://clarivate.com>*
On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Let me go on the record that I also like the idea.
I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even at that level.
Best,
Thomas
Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>:
Hi Milton,
essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data.
And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from the RDS harvesters, that is).
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_&d...>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team < gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> wrote:
Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with why I find Volker’s
proposal intriguing.
I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois” (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private. I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
Dr. Milton L Mueller
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Public Policy
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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participants (5)
-
Alan Woods -
King, Brian -
Mueller, Milton L -
Thomas Rickert -
Volker Greimann