Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so. The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that. We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days. Alan At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote: Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no” to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent. We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status. Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say. Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear team members, I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies. I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely. I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above. Thank you JK _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
First, it’s not true that working lunches haven’t accomplished much - they have Second, how about a bloody non-working lunch? Or two? Where we can chat and informally network? We will be working intensively for 8 hours at least. Third, it is simply not true that routing useful Info through epdp team members requires “extraordinary time” nor is it true that you save time doing it the other way (indeed, that’s obviously a self-contradictory position.) We are discussing use cases at length and any information or arguments made in those discussions should not be given a privileged status, they come in via team members. Milton L Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology On Aug 2, 2019, at 19:29, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote: I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so. The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that. We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days. Alan At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote: Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no†to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent. We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status. Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say. Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline â€â€â€â€â€â€â€ Original Message â€â€â€â€â€â€â€ On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear team members, I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies. I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely. I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above. Thank you JK _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I totally agree with having presentations during lunch time. Certainly we shall have other opportunities for networking and it does not matter if the information is neutral or not, all members of the EPDP team are intelligent people who can decide which information to consider and which to simply disregard. To have the opportunity to learn more is always good and Milton you had your experience with them already because of a research you were conducting, its a good opportunity for the rest of us to develop our own. Best Hadia ________________________________ From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Mueller, Milton L <milton@gatech.edu> Sent: 03 August 2019 05:20 To: Alan Greenberg Cc: gnso-epdp-team@icann.org; gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting First, it�s not true that working lunches haven�t accomplished much - they have Second, how about a bloody non-working lunch? Or two? Where we can chat and informally network? We will be working intensively for 8 hours at least. Third, it is simply not true that routing useful Info through epdp team members requires �extraordinary time� nor is it true that you save time doing it the other way (indeed, that�s obviously a self-contradictory position.) We are discussing use cases at length and any information or arguments made in those discussions should not be given a privileged status, they come in via team members. Milton L Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology On Aug 2, 2019, at 19:29, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote: I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so. The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that. We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days. Alan At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote: Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no” to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent. We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status. Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say. Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear team members, I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies. I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely. I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above. Thank you JK _______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I'm sorry, I really do not understand why this would be useful for our face-to-face meeting. I do not oppose having special webinars so that experts can share with us additional information and field our questions. But I worry it would be information overload having these presentations at the face-to-face meeting as well. And if we have external facilitators in Los Angeles next month, I think it would be a better use of this resource to spend what little time we do have in a face-to-face environment focusing on our core work plan, and not having briefings from external presenters that may or may not be relevant to what we have to deal with then. I feel very strongly about this. I am afraid I did not leave the presentations we had in Marrakech from external presenters with any inputs that I have been able to take forward, be it here in this working group or elsewhere at ICANN. Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Saturday, 3 August 2019 10:45, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
I totally agree with having presentations during lunch time. Certainly we shall have other opportunities for networking and it does not matter if the information is neutral or not, all members of the EPDP team are intelligent people who can decide which information to consider and which to simply disregard. To have the opportunity to learn more is always good and Milton you had your experience with them already because of a research you were conducting, its a good opportunity for the rest of us to develop our own.
Best
Hadia
From: Gnso-epdp-team gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Mueller, Milton L milton@gatech.edu Sent: 03 August 2019 05:20 To: Alan Greenberg Cc: gnso-epdp-team@icann.org; gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
First, it’s not true that working lunches haven’t accomplished much - they have
Second, how about a bloody non-working lunch? Or two? Where we can chat and informally network? We will be working intensively for 8 hours at least.
Third, it is simply not true that routing useful Info through epdp team members requires “extraordinary time” nor is it true that you save time doing it the other way (indeed, that’s obviously a self-contradictory position.) We are discussing use cases at length and any information or arguments made in those discussions should not be given a privileged status, they come in via team members.
Milton L Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology
On Aug 2, 2019, at 19:29, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.camailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so.
The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that.
We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days.
Alan
At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no� to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent.
We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status.
Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy
From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto:karklinsj@gmail.com> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org; gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say.
Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline
������� Original Message ������� On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto:karklinsj@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear team members,
I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies.
I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely.
I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above.
Thank you JK
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I would be interested in hearing from the Microsoft DCU team and having the opportunity to ask them questions on how they do what they do. However I also appreciate Ayden’s strongly held feelings so perhaps we should consider a happy hour presentation at the end of our day allowing us to take full advantage of the facilitators and our time together during the day. What could be more fun than learning about digital crimes investigation while enjoying a cocktail or three? Alex On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:14 PM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, I really do not understand why this would be useful for our face-to-face meeting. I do not oppose having special webinars so that experts can share with us additional information and field our questions. But I worry it would be information overload having these presentations at the face-to-face meeting as well. And if we have external facilitators in Los Angeles next month, I think it would be a better use of this resource to spend what little time we do have in a face-to-face environment focusing on our core work plan, and not having briefings from external presenters that may or may not be relevant to what we have to deal with then. I feel very strongly about this. I am afraid I did not leave the presentations we had in Marrakech from external presenters with any inputs that I have been able to take forward, be it here in this working group or elsewhere at ICANN.
Best wishes,
Ayden Férdeline
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Saturday, 3 August 2019 10:45, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
I totally agree with having presentations during lunch time. Certainly we shall have other opportunities for networking and it does not matter if the information is neutral or not, all members of the EPDP team are intelligent people who can decide which information to consider and which to simply disregard. To have the opportunity to learn more is always good and Milton you had your experience with them already because of a research you were conducting, its a good opportunity for the rest of us to develop our own.
Best
Hadia
From: Gnso-epdp-team gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Mueller, Milton L milton@gatech.edu Sent: 03 August 2019 05:20 To: Alan Greenberg Cc: gnso-epdp-team@icann.org; gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
First, it’s not true that working lunches haven’t accomplished much - they have
Second, how about a bloody non-working lunch? Or two? Where we can chat and informally network? We will be working intensively for 8 hours at least.
Third, it is simply not true that routing useful Info through epdp team members requires “extraordinary time” nor is it true that you save time doing it the other way (indeed, that’s obviously a self-contradictory position.) We are discussing use cases at length and any information or arguments made in those discussions should not be given a privileged status, they come in via team members.
Milton L Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology
On Aug 2, 2019, at 19:29, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.camailto :alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so.
The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that.
We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days.
Alan
At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no� to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent.
We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status.
Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy
From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.orgmailto: gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto:karklinsj@gmail.com> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org; gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say.
Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline
������� Original Message ������� On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto :karklinsj@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear team members,
I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies.
I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely.
I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above.
Thank you JK
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- ___________ *Alex Deacon* Cole Valley Consulting alex@colevalleyconsulting.com +1.415.488.6009
I would also be interested in hearing from the Microsoft Digital Crimes Unit, but I don’t feel the LA face to face is the right venue. So far we received one external briefing during a regular weekly call and two during the lunch block at Marrakesh. Of those, I thought the one during our weekly call worked better and didn’t think there was anything covered in Marrakesh that required face to face interaction. My preference would be to invite them to present at a future weekly call. Thank you to Mark Sv for the offer to invite the Microsoft Digital Crimes Unit to speak to us. I admit it’s not immediately clear to me from the original email from Janis how this ties to our work, but I assume that Mark would not have suggested this if it didn’t relate to developing policy recommendations on access to non-public registration data. I also want to echo one of Milton’s points about non-working lunches. In phase 1 we struggled to move forward until we had the LA face to face. In my view the ability to talk between formal facilitated sessions and over lunch was key to the success in LA and laid the groundwork for much of the work we would later accomplish. We need to bake in time for those all important side conversations that allow those with opposing positions to talk, share views and develop common positions that can achieve consensus support. Best, Marc From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Alex Deacon Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:58 PM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting I would be interested in hearing from the Microsoft DCU team and having the opportunity to ask them questions on how they do what they do. However I also appreciate Ayden’s strongly held feelings so perhaps we should consider a happy hour presentation at the end of our day allowing us to take full advantage of the facilitators and our time together during the day. What could be more fun than learning about digital crimes investigation while enjoying a cocktail or three? Alex On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:14 PM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: I'm sorry, I really do not understand why this would be useful for our face-to-face meeting. I do not oppose having special webinars so that experts can share with us additional information and field our questions. But I worry it would be information overload having these presentations at the face-to-face meeting as well. And if we have external facilitators in Los Angeles next month, I think it would be a better use of this resource to spend what little time we do have in a face-to-face environment focusing on our core work plan, and not having briefings from external presenters that may or may not be relevant to what we have to deal with then. I feel very strongly about this. I am afraid I did not leave the presentations we had in Marrakech from external presenters with any inputs that I have been able to take forward, be it here in this working group or elsewhere at ICANN. Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Saturday, 3 August 2019 10:45, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote:
I totally agree with having presentations during lunch time. Certainly we shall have other opportunities for networking and it does not matter if the information is neutral or not, all members of the EPDP team are intelligent people who can decide which information to consider and which to simply disregard. To have the opportunity to learn more is always good and Milton you had your experience with them already because of a research you were conducting, its a good opportunity for the rest of us to develop our own.
Best
Hadia
From: Gnso-epdp-team gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Mueller, Milton L milton@gatech.edu<mailto:milton@gatech.edu> Sent: 03 August 2019 05:20 To: Alan Greenberg Cc: gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org>; gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
First, it’s not true that working lunches haven’t accomplished much - they have
Second, how about a bloody non-working lunch? Or two? Where we can chat and informally network? We will be working intensively for 8 hours at least.
Third, it is simply not true that routing useful Info through epdp team members requires “extraordinary time” nor is it true that you save time doing it the other way (indeed, that’s obviously a self-contradictory position.) We are discussing use cases at length and any information or arguments made in those discussions should not be given a privileged status, they come in via team members.
Milton L Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology
On Aug 2, 2019, at 19:29, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.camailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote:
I disagree. Working lunch meetings rarely accomplish much, so scheduling what may be an interesting presentation, even if from a particular perspective (and known to be) can be both informative and useful. Those who choose to just eat and not pay attention are free to do so.
The suggestion to route any useful information through a EPDP member presumes we will be willing to give a member a significant and extraordinary time slot to do so and I would not advocate doing that.
We have three lunch slots and I would welcome other presentations of interest/use for the other two days.
Alan
At 02/08/2019 06:55 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
Janis, Much as I would love to hear more about MSFT’s digital crimes unit (I already have seen some of their presentations and we’ve interviewed one of their botnet fighters in connection with research we are doing) I think after our not-so-great experiences with external presentations in Marrakech the group really needs to “just say no� to any additional presentations of this sort. Please, let’s not encourage these requests anymore, let’s put an end to this precedent.
We have to be aware of the fact that these presentations are not neutral and purely informational, they come from serious players with a stake in the process. Microsoft is represented on the EPDP and through the BC. IF they can bring useful information to bear on our discussions of use cases they can do it through their EPDP representative in line with our regular discussions, in which we all have equal status.
Dr. Milton L Mueller Georgia Institute of Technology School of Public Policy
From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 6:58 AM To: Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto:karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> Cc: gnso-epdp-lead@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-lead@icann.org>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Experts for the lunch time presentations during the LA f2f meeting
It is a very short face-to-face meeting, and I imagine we will have a lot on the agenda and hopefully the excellent external facilitators present. I would prefer that we not have any additional, external presenters during the face-to-face - though I am certainly happy to join a webinar over the coming weeks to hear what anyone has to say.
Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline
������� Original Message ������� On Friday, 2 August 2019 05:30, Janis Karklins <karklinsj@gmail.commailto:karklinsj@gmail.com<mailto:karklinsj@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear team members,
I am writing to you in inform that I have received offer from Mark Svancarek to bring an expert from Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit and to make a (lunch time) presentation of their routine practices in investigating cases of concern to Microsoft. I think such a presentation would help us foster understand challenges facing digital wrongdoing investigators from private companies.
I also would like to ask if there would be any other experts who could make lunchtime presentations either onsite or remotely.
I would be grateful for your thoughts on the proposal above.
Thank you JK
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.orgmailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-epdp-team mailing list Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- ___________ Alex Deacon Cole Valley Consulting alex@colevalleyconsulting.com<mailto:alex@colevalleyconsulting.com> +1.415.488.6009
participants (6)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Alex Deacon -
Anderson, Marc -
Ayden Férdeline -
Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi -
Mueller, Milton L