Hi Alan, I have tried to strike a balance between the text I shared earlier and the comments you have raised here. Here is what I have come up with: Recognizing that in the case of some existing registrations, there may be an Administrative Contact but no Registered Name Holder or any other contact, the EPDP Team recommends that, prior to eliminating the collection and maintenance of the current Administrative Contact field, the Registrar MUST ensure that each registration will contain contact information. Can you live with this? I have removed the reference to "some contact", which you found vague, and "name", because you noted this was unnecessary given the RAA. However I have still deleted the last sentence, because I do think it is redundant. Best wishes, Ayden ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 5:27 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:

Now that I have posting rights again:

Two comments on "... will contain the name and contact information of some contact"

- It is not really necessary to mention "name" since the 2009 RAA did require a Name field for the Registrant.

- "some contact" is too wide, since we are still requiring (optionally) a technical contact which may not be the entity responsible for the registration (for instance it my be the hosting provider).

Since we are also eliminating the Billing fields, the Registrant is the only remaining non-technical contact, so replacing the phrase with:

"... will contain full Registrant Contact information"

That also eliminates the need for the e.g.

Regarding Ayden's recommendation to eliminate the final sentence, I do not agree. We need to make it clear that ensuring the Registrant contact information being present is a gating requirement to elimination of the Admin fields. We could in fact stop collection admin contact details before that, because for all new or changing registrations the 2013 rules apply which ensures Registrant data.

Alan

At 06/02/2019 06:58 AM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:

...

Thanks, Marika. I have some suggested edits, which are stylistic and not substantive:

Redline:

Recognizing that in the cases of some existing registrations, there may be an Administrative Contact but no Registered Name Holder or any other contact, the EPDP Team recommends that, prior to in eliminating the collection and maintenance of the current Aadministrative Ccontact field, the Registrar MUST ensure that each registration will contain the name and contact information of some contact., e.g., the Registered Name Holder. This will need to happen before the administrative contact is eliminated. Clean:

Recognizing that in the case of some existing registrations, there may be an Administrative Contact but no Registered Name Holder or any other contact, the EPDP Team recommends that, prior to eliminating the collection and maintenance of the current Administrative Contact field, the Registrar MUST ensure that each registration will contain the name and contact information of some contact.

Best wishes,

Ayden Férdeline

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 6:18 PM, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org> wrote:

...

In line with the comments made, would the following work for inclusion in the Final Report:

New Recommendation:

Recognizing that in the cases of some registrations, there may be an Admin Contact but no Registered Name Holder or any other contact, the EPDP Team recommends that, in eliminating the collection and maintenance of the administrative contact, the Registrar MUST ensure that each registration will contain the name and contact information of some contact, e.g., the Registered Name Holder. This will need to happen before the administrative contact is eliminated.

If you have any concerns about this proposed language, please share this with the mailing list by Wednesday 6 February COB.

Best regards,

Caitlin, Berry and Marika

From: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Date: Monday, February 4, 2019 at 18:20 To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> Cc: Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org>, "gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org> Subject: [Ext] Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] FW: Response from ICANN Compliance re. registrations under the 2009 RAA

Kurt, that would be fine. But that is not "elimination of the field". The registrar "ensuring" must happen before the field disappears.

We have an escrow program to protect registrants against failures in registrars and registries. The escrow data going forward must always include contact info.

I am just about to name an alternate for tomorrow and will lose posting privileges to this list.

Alan

At 04/02/2019 07:07 PM, Kurt Pritz wrote:

Thanks for this Alan: Might another approach be to write into the policy something to the effect that, “Recognizing that in the cases of s some registrations there is an “Admin Contactâ€but no Registered Name Holder or any other contact, it is required that, in the eliminating the collection and maintenance of the administrative contact, the registrar will ensure that each registration will contain the name and contact information of some contact, e.g., the registered name holder.”Something like that to let each registrar manage its own situation and also to give compliance a way to monitor registrations to ensure that there is contact information. Best regards,Kurt

On Feb 4, 2019, at 3:58 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca > wrote:Another alternative is to say that the Admin contacts are not to be collected for new, changed or transferred registrations (which are all subject to the 2013 RAA requirement for Registrant contact data) and that the fields will be eliminated once all registrars confirm that all of the registrations under their sponsorship have Registrant contact information.AlanAt 04/02/2019 05:14 PM, Alan Greenberg wrote:

I do not believe that we can eliminate the Admin contact information (as currently recommended) without a concrete idea of how many registrations might be left without contact information and just a note that implementation should investigate the potential impact. If that investigation (if it is even possible given the data that ICANN possesses) we to show that there are a substantive number of such registrations, what could they do? We know that registrars have resisted the requirement to take corrective action on registration (which is why the validation/verification requirements in the 2013 RAA only apply when there are changes). If we eliminate Admin fields, we must provide for ensuring that all registrations have contact information within a relatively short period of time.The easy fix given the timeline is to not eliminate the Admin fields.AlanAt 04/02/2019 08:19 AM, Marika Konings wrote:

Dear Alan G., all, In relation to the question regarding the 2009 RAA you formulated a while back, note that ICANN Org had already provided a response: Alan Greenberg’s Question:br>The EPDP is requesting that ICANN Org confirm that all registrars are now operating under the 2013 RAA.The EPDP is requesting that ICANN Org provide its interpretation of the requirement under the RAA Data retention Specification 1.1 whether registrars, as part of their adoption of the 2013 RAA, are required to ensure that Registrant contact email and telephone fields are completed, or whether the phrase "shall maintain that information" (which was validly allowed to be blank at registration time) allows them to preserve any empty Registrant contact fields. If the former, is Contractual Compliance taking any action to ensure that registrars fulfill this obligation? ICANN org Compliance Response: Registrars are not required to collect additional contact information for 2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) registrations. However, registrars may be required to update existing contact information for 2009 RAA registrations when there is a triggering event under the 2013 RAA that may require them to do so (e.g., the domain name is an inbound transfer, the registrant changes, there is information to suggest the current contact information is incorrect). This response is also posted here: https://community.icann.org/x/ahppBQ. Please let us know if this does not sufficiently address your question. In order to ensure this issue is not overlooked during the implementation phase, would it be helpful to add a sentence along the following lines in the implementation part of the report: “As part of the implplementation, consideration needs toto be given to the potential impact of these policy recommendations on legacy registrations that without additional mitigation could end up with no contact information if the administrative contact is the only information currently available (this could be the case for a limited number of registrations that are still under the 2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement)”? > Best regards, Caitlin, Berry and Marika Marika KoningsVice President, Policy Development Support – GNSO, Internet Corporation forr Assigned Namees and Numbers (ICANN)Email: marika.konings@icann.org Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSOFind out more about the GNSO by taking our [interactive courses](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__learn.icann.org_courses_...) and visiting the [GNSO Newcomer pages](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_sites_gns...). _______________________________________________Gnso-epdp-team mailing listGnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team _______________________________________________Gnso-epdp-team mailing listGnso-epdp-team@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team