I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so. We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions: 1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away. 2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved. Alan
Hi, Just a clarification:
On 4 Aug 2018, at 03:21, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
as a possible incoming NCSG Chair
This is not true. The NCSG currently has elections underway, within which we are selecting our new Chair, and the deadline has already passed for candidates to express their interest in serving in this position. Rafik was not a candidate, and there is no possibility that he will be the incoming NCSG Chair. It also bares repeating that he is not a representative of the NCSG in this EPDP. Thanks, Ayden
On 4 Aug 2018, at 03:21, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so.
We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions:
1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away.
2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved.
Alan
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You're right Ayden. my mistake. I mis-read a message and got it wrong. The overall message stands though. And yes, as the Council Liaison, he is not an EPDP member and cannot speak on substance on your (or anyone's) behalf. I don't think that anyone is questioning that. Alan At 03/08/2018 11:59 PM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
Hi,
Just a clarification:
On 4 Aug 2018, at 03:21, Alan Greenberg <<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
as a possible incoming NCSG Chair
This is not true.
The NCSG currently has elections underway, within which we are selecting our new Chair, and the deadline has already passed for candidates to express their interest in serving in this position. Rafik was not a candidate, and there is no possibility that he will be the incoming NCSG Chair.
It also bares repeating that he is not a representative of the NCSG in this EPDP.
Thanks,
Ayden
On 4 Aug 2018, at 03:21, Alan Greenberg <<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so.
We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions:
1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away.
2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved.
Alan
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I actually think we can relax about the apparent conflicts here. Firstly, as has been pointed out, Rafik is running for GNSO Council, as an NCSG representative, but not the head of NCSG. Secondly, of all the people I have met at ICANN who are capable of being neutral (hard to find regarding WHOIS, as previously discussed on council with respect to the potential Chair of this EPDP), Rafik is exemplary. He takes that duty very seriously. I think you may depend on him to step aside if there is any conflict in the matter of the Liaison acting as intermediary in leadership complaints. Thirdly, in the matter of the overcoming conflicts or impasses within the work team. Let us be frank here. There is no one who has the experience in ICANN who is perfectly neutral. A leadership position on this or any other GNSO PDP requires neutrality, putting on the hat of the Chair (or, in this case, Vice-Chair) and refraining from offering personal opinions, commentary on the opinions of others, or stakeholder positions. I can think of some excellent examples of Chairmanship and Vice-Chairmanship (Steve Metalitz as Vice-Chair of the Privacy/Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP for instance, or Heather Forrest as current Chair of the GNSO). To suggest that members of the NCSG are not capable of setting aside our own goals and key positions in a similar way is inappropriate. Kind regards, Stephanie Perrin On 2018-08-04 05:21, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so.
We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions:
1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away.
2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved.
Alan
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On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 11:37 AM Stephanie Perrin < stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
I actually think we can relax about the apparent conflicts here. Firstly, as has been pointed out, Rafik is running for GNSO Council, as an NCSG representative, but not the head of NCSG.
Secondly, of all the people I have met at ICANN who are capable of being neutral (hard to find regarding WHOIS, as previously discussed on council with respect to the potential Chair of this EPDP), Rafik is exemplary. He takes that duty very seriously. I think you may depend on him to step aside if there is any conflict in the matter of the Liaison acting as intermediary in leadership complaints.
Thirdly, in the matter of the overcoming conflicts or impasses within the work team. Let us be frank here. There is no one who has the experience in ICANN who is perfectly neutral. A leadership position on this or any other GNSO PDP requires neutrality, putting on the hat of the Chair (or, in this case, Vice-Chair) and refraining from offering personal opinions, commentary on the opinions of others, or stakeholder positions. I can think of some excellent examples of Chairmanship and Vice-Chairmanship (Steve Metalitz as Vice-Chair of the Privacy/Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP for instance, or Heather Forrest as current Chair of the GNSO). To suggest that members of the NCSG are not capable of setting aside our own goals and key positions in a similar way is inappropriate.
Kind regards,
Stephanie Perrin
On 2018-08-04 05:21, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so.
We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions:
1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away.
2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved.
Alan
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Dear All, I do not believe we should get into such detail in scrutinizing a probable conflict of interest. In ICG we had to select an independent secretariat we have had similar argument and counter argument. Finally we opted for someone from .Asia entity which in view of some minority group could have had conflict of interest . She took up that tasks and did the expected job perfectly with NO CONFLICT OF INETERST . The ICG life was about 2 yeras .The EPDP is less than 10 Months Perhaps we should agree to Rafic and just waiting rformality ratification from GNSO Council Regards Kavouss On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 6:33 PM Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 11:37 AM Stephanie Perrin < stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
I actually think we can relax about the apparent conflicts here. Firstly, as has been pointed out, Rafik is running for GNSO Council, as an NCSG representative, but not the head of NCSG.
Secondly, of all the people I have met at ICANN who are capable of being neutral (hard to find regarding WHOIS, as previously discussed on council with respect to the potential Chair of this EPDP), Rafik is exemplary. He takes that duty very seriously. I think you may depend on him to step aside if there is any conflict in the matter of the Liaison acting as intermediary in leadership complaints.
Thirdly, in the matter of the overcoming conflicts or impasses within the work team. Let us be frank here. There is no one who has the experience in ICANN who is perfectly neutral. A leadership position on this or any other GNSO PDP requires neutrality, putting on the hat of the Chair (or, in this case, Vice-Chair) and refraining from offering personal opinions, commentary on the opinions of others, or stakeholder positions. I can think of some excellent examples of Chairmanship and Vice-Chairmanship (Steve Metalitz as Vice-Chair of the Privacy/Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP for instance, or Heather Forrest as current Chair of the GNSO). To suggest that members of the NCSG are not capable of setting aside our own goals and key positions in a similar way is inappropriate.
Kind regards,
Stephanie Perrin
On 2018-08-04 05:21, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I asked for time to consult with my colleagues and have done so.
We have no problem with Rafik being named Vice-Chair of the EPDP based on the following presumptions/conditions:
1. There is a direct conflict with Rafik acting as the first level handling of a complaint about a leadership decision (a Liaison responsibility) and serving in that leadership. If the GNSO Chair chooses to act in his place in that role (any complaint that stands would go to the Chair next in any case), or to appoint someone else who is will be closely following the proceedings (and agrees not to launch a compliant!), the conflict goes away.
2. Our assumption is that the role of Vice-Chair will be purely to on occasion act as the Chair of a meeting when Kurt is not available, or to handle other administrative tasks. In this case, we see no conflict. If, on the other hand, he and Kurt would take on the role that other Chairs/Co-Chairs/Vice-Chairs teams have and strategize on to how to overcome conflicts or impasses within the work team, then there is a direct conflict as it puts one of the EPDP constituent groups in a privileged position. Although Rafik is not one of the formal members of the NCSG contingent on the EPDP, as a possible incoming NCSG Chair and a key member of the NCSG Policy Committee, he cannot disassociate himself completely from being involved.
Alan
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participants (4)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Ayden Férdeline -
Kavouss Arasteh -
Stephanie Perrin