Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposal on Prioritising Applications - prohibition on applying in a later round for a string from a prior round which has not yet been delegated
AFAIK, ICANN used accounts with no interest income so those funds would be protected by FDIC to store funds from the new gTLD program, so there is a chance that the interest to be shared with the application to be zero. Rubens
Em 5 de set de 2019, à(s) 14:31:000, Jamie Baxter <jamie@dotgay.com> escreveu:
Thanks for this outline Susan.
You raise a point inside this outline related to unrecoverable expenses that I think should be brought into the open for discussion, especially if applications for strings from prior procedures are going to be accepted going forward.
Although there are some expenses that would clearly be unpredictable for applicants who choose to apply for strings already applied for in prior procedures (if that route is agreed to), I’m not necessarily convinced this group should avoid searching for ways to add in some cost predictability that might help offset some of the unrecoverable expenses. I am speaking specifically about the interest income from application fees that may be tied up for years, which presumably would benefit ICANN unless altered.
Presumably the application fees of such applicants are simply being held in an account somewhere and not touched until a time that the application begins to proceed. I couldn’t image a situation where these fees are available to ICANN for other uses while applicants remain on hold, especially since they would be need for future evaluations or part of a future refund.
Although I understand that it is the choice of the applicant to assume some risk in applying for a string that has already been applied for in a prior procedure, I’m not sure it is an absolute that ICANN should be the beneficiary of the interest that accrues on application fees while applicants wait. An applicant’s risk clearly involves some unpredictable items, like timeline (due to accountability mechanisms and/or contention resolutions) and any operation costs required to keep their application active (ie. staffing), but it seems to me that some costs don’t need to be unrecoverable and can be predictable if this group decides to make the effort.
What if the application fee was held in an account that allows interest to flow back to the applicant while they wait, instead of to ICANN? Landlords do this with deposits from renters all the time. Given that application fees were at $185,000 in the 2012 round, and some applicants had multiple applications, the interest that might accrue over a 1-2 year waiting period could be welcomed relief for applicants. Although it might seem like a nominal amount to some, it does check a box of predictability that could be offered to applicants in this very unpredictable scenario.
If there is a rational that supports why ICANN should benefit from this interest income from application fees for applications on hold because of policy decisions being made in this group about prioritization, then perhaps someone could share.
Thanks Jamie
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposal on Prioritising Applications - prohibition on applying in a later round for a string from a prior round which has not yet been delegated From: Susan Payne <susan.payne@valideus.com <mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com>> Date: Tue, September 03, 2019 6:53 pm To: "gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org>>
All During a call a couple of weeks ago, when we were discussing application prioritisation, I volunteered to circulate for consideration a proposal to prohibit allowing applications in a later application window where the string has previously been applied for and not yet been delegated. Although it had originally been proposed that this might extend to confusingly similar strings, having reflected on the discussion during the call I accept that this would probably be unrealistic, since confusing similarity needs to be determined as part of the TLD evaluation process. I have therefore limited this proposal to exact match strings, as follows: This proposal assumes that we will have at least one further application round/open window for submission of applications, and possibly that there may be a number of such future open windows during which applications may be submitted, followed by some closed period when applications are not received, before the next application window opens (I will use the phrase “application submission period”). Where one or more applicants for a particular TLD string have applied for that string in a prior application submission period (including the 2012 application submission period); and The TLD has not been withdrawn but has not yet proceeded to delegation for whatever reason, including but not limited to: One or more of the applications has not yet completed evaluation; One or more of the applications is still the subject of an objection process The contention set has not yet been resolved; There is an ongoing accountability process, [appeal] or other legal challenge underway with respect to a decision(s) relating to one or more application; Time within which to commence an accountability process, [appeal] or other legal challenge on such a decision is still running; The exact match to that TLD string shall be blocked from application during future application submission periods until such time as the prior round application(s) have finally been concluded, according the rules under which they applied: If the TLD string is delegated to one of the earlier applicants, then that string will remain unavailable for later applicants; If all of the earlier applications are finally rejected, then (provided that a decision has not been made by the Board to permanently refuse that string) the TLD string will once again become available for application: from the next application submission period, provided that this allows a minimum of 3 months notice before the application submission period opens; or, If the next application submission period opens in less than 3 months, then the subsequent application submission period.
Rationale We know that, many years after the 2012 application submission period closed, there are still a handful of applications for TLD strings which remain unresolved, generally due to delays caused by recourse to ICANNs accountability mechanisms.
Whilst we all hope that in subsequent procedures we will have fewer of the challenges that we saw in the 2012 round, it is reasonable to assume that some will still occur.
In any event, if subsequent procedures take the form of a series of discrete application submission periods, with known, finite, periods between them, then it is conceivable that applications from one application submission period may still be being processed when then next application submission period opens.
If the period between application submission periods is reasonably short (12 months has been discussed, for example) we could conceivably see the added complication of applications for the same string being queued up across multiple windows.
Whilst a later applicant who applied unsuccessfully for a TLD, which was eventually allocated to an applicant from a prior application submission period, could expect to recover their application fee, there is a cost to putting together an application in excess of the ICANN fee, and this would not be recoverable. The later applicant could also have their application fee tied up for months or even years, pending the outcome of the earlier application(s).
Some have argued that this is the choice of the later applicant, that they can check whether there are prior “live” applications and decide accordingly whether they still want to apply. I believe this does a disservice to potential applicants, particularly those who are not so familiar with all of the history of prior applications and who may not appreciate that in many cases they would have no realistic prospect of being allocated the TLD string that ICANN has allowed them to apply for. Blocking the TLD from application, until such time as the previous applications are resolved, seems a much fairer approach.
Susan Payne Head of Legal Policy Valideus
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FDIC insures checking and savings accounts up to $250,000 if maintained separately in a federally-insured institution. (FDIC member bank or federally insured National Credit Union Administration.) Interest rates at present yield about 2 %. Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 10:36 AM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposal on Prioritising Applications - prohibition on applying in a later round for a string from a prior round which has not yet been delegated [EXTERNAL] ________________________________ AFAIK, ICANN used accounts with no interest income so those funds would be protected by FDIC to store funds from the new gTLD program, so there is a chance that the interest to be shared with the application to be zero. Rubens Em 5 de set de 2019, à(s) 14:31:000, Jamie Baxter <jamie@dotgay.com<mailto:jamie@dotgay.com>> escreveu: Thanks for this outline Susan. You raise a point inside this outline related to unrecoverable expenses that I think should be brought into the open for discussion, especially if applications for strings from prior procedures are going to be accepted going forward. Although there are some expenses that would clearly be unpredictable for applicants who choose to apply for strings already applied for in prior procedures (if that route is agreed to), I’m not necessarily convinced this group should avoid searching for ways to add in some cost predictability that might help offset some of the unrecoverable expenses. I am speaking specifically about the interest income from application fees that may be tied up for years, which presumably would benefit ICANN unless altered. Presumably the application fees of such applicants are simply being held in an account somewhere and not touched until a time that the application begins to proceed. I couldn’t image a situation where these fees are available to ICANN for other uses while applicants remain on hold, especially since they would be need for future evaluations or part of a future refund. Although I understand that it is the choice of the applicant to assume some risk in applying for a string that has already been applied for in a prior procedure, I’m not sure it is an absolute that ICANN should be the beneficiary of the interest that accrues on application fees while applicants wait. An applicant’s risk clearly involves some unpredictable items, like timeline (due to accountability mechanisms and/or contention resolutions) and any operation costs required to keep their application active (ie. staffing), but it seems to me that some costs don’t need to be unrecoverable and can be predictable if this group decides to make the effort. What if the application fee was held in an account that allows interest to flow back to the applicant while they wait, instead of to ICANN? Landlords do this with deposits from renters all the time. Given that application fees were at $185,000 in the 2012 round, and some applicants had multiple applications, the interest that might accrue over a 1-2 year waiting period could be welcomed relief for applicants. Although it might seem like a nominal amount to some, it does check a box of predictability that could be offered to applicants in this very unpredictable scenario. If there is a rational that supports why ICANN should benefit from this interest income from application fees for applications on hold because of policy decisions being made in this group about prioritization, then perhaps someone could share. Thanks Jamie -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposal on Prioritising Applications - prohibition on applying in a later round for a string from a prior round which has not yet been delegated From: Susan Payne <susan.payne@valideus.com<mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com>> Date: Tue, September 03, 2019 6:53 pm To: "gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org>> All During a call a couple of weeks ago, when we were discussing application prioritisation, I volunteered to circulate for consideration a proposal to prohibit allowing applications in a later application window where the string has previously been applied for and not yet been delegated. Although it had originally been proposed that this might extend to confusingly similar strings, having reflected on the discussion during the call I accept that this would probably be unrealistic, since confusing similarity needs to be determined as part of the TLD evaluation process. I have therefore limited this proposal to exact match strings, as follows: * This proposal assumes that we will have at least one further application round/open window for submission of applications, and possibly that there may be a number of such future open windows during which applications may be submitted, followed by some closed period when applications are not received, before the next application window opens (I will use the phrase “application submission period”). * Where one or more applicants for a particular TLD string have applied for that string in a prior application submission period (including the 2012 application submission period); and * The TLD has not been withdrawn but has not yet proceeded to delegation for whatever reason, including but not limited to: * One or more of the applications has not yet completed evaluation; * One or more of the applications is still the subject of an objection process * The contention set has not yet been resolved; * There is an ongoing accountability process, [appeal] or other legal challenge underway with respect to a decision(s) relating to one or more application; * Time within which to commence an accountability process, [appeal] or other legal challenge on such a decision is still running; * The exact match to that TLD string shall be blocked from application during future application submission periods until such time as the prior round application(s) have finally been concluded, according the rules under which they applied: * If the TLD string is delegated to one of the earlier applicants, then that string will remain unavailable for later applicants; * If all of the earlier applications are finally rejected, then (provided that a decision has not been made by the Board to permanently refuse that string) the TLD string will once again become available for application: * from the next application submission period, provided that this allows a minimum of 3 months notice before the application submission period opens; or, * If the next application submission period opens in less than 3 months, then the subsequent application submission period. Rationale We know that, many years after the 2012 application submission period closed, there are still a handful of applications for TLD strings which remain unresolved, generally due to delays caused by recourse to ICANNs accountability mechanisms. Whilst we all hope that in subsequent procedures we will have fewer of the challenges that we saw in the 2012 round, it is reasonable to assume that some will still occur. In any event, if subsequent procedures take the form of a series of discrete application submission periods, with known, finite, periods between them, then it is conceivable that applications from one application submission period may still be being processed when then next application submission period opens. If the period between application submission periods is reasonably short (12 months has been discussed, for example) we could conceivably see the added complication of applications for the same string being queued up across multiple windows. Whilst a later applicant who applied unsuccessfully for a TLD, which was eventually allocated to an applicant from a prior application submission period, could expect to recover their application fee, there is a cost to putting together an application in excess of the ICANN fee, and this would not be recoverable. The later applicant could also have their application fee tied up for months or even years, pending the outcome of the earlier application(s). Some have argued that this is the choice of the later applicant, that they can check whether there are prior “live” applications and decide accordingly whether they still want to apply. I believe this does a disservice to potential applicants, particularly those who are not so familiar with all of the history of prior applications and who may not appreciate that in many cases they would have no realistic prospect of being allocated the TLD string that ICANN has allowed them to apply for. Blocking the TLD from application, until such time as the previous applications are resolved, seems a much fairer approach. Susan Payne Head of Legal Policy Valideus ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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participants (3)
-
Aikman-Scalese, Anne -
Jamie Baxter -
Rubens Kuhl