What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is "Bad Faith" other people may not believe is "bad faith" with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image003.jpg@01D5CC80.0E2CE0C0] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>
Jeff, Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never. But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document? Thanks, Mike Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Mike, Please see the ICANN Board’s response to our Supplemental Initial Report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/chalaby-to-langdon-orr-... “These concerns mostly center on the issues of auctions of last resort and on private auctions. We take special note of the possible practice of participating in private auctions for the sole purpose of being paid to drop out. We also take note of the abuse that becomes possible in alterations to the change request mechanisms. ● The Board has concerns about whether, and in what ways, the availability of private auctions incentivizes applications for purposes other than actually using the string; and we are interested in how these incentives for abuse might be minimized.” Hope that helps. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:43 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Jeff, Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never. But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document? Thanks, Mike Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image001.jpg@01D5CC84.98EA50E0] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>
Hi All, The concern is NOT that some private auctions (or similar contention set resolutions involving payments) are “unfair” in and of itself. The concern is, that they invite speculative applications. Speculative applications are especially interesting, if the monetary risk per application is low. The combination of low application floor level AND high refunds is the fuel! If the floor is lowered to US $50k – at 85% refund a speculator has only a US $ 3,750 risk per application. THAT is the main problem. Thanks, Alexander From: Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2020 15:50 To: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Mike, Please see the ICANN Board’s response to our Supplemental Initial Report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/chalaby-to-langdon-orr-... “These concerns mostly center on the issues of auctions of last resort and on private auctions. We take special note of the possible practice of participating in private auctions for the sole purpose of being paid to drop out. We also take note of the abuse that becomes possible in alterations to the change request mechanisms. ● The Board has concerns about whether, and in what ways, the availability of private auctions incentivizes applications for purposes other than actually using the string; and we are interested in how these incentives for abuse might be minimized.” Hope that helps. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com <mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:43 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> > Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Jeff, Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never. But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document? Thanks, Mike Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> > wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/> _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com>
So if the application fee were to remain around the same as 2012, then do you still see a problem? Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 1:01 PM Alexander Schubert <alexander@schubert.berlin> wrote:
Hi All,
The concern is NOT that some private auctions (or similar contention set resolutions involving payments) are “unfair” in and of itself.
The concern is, that they invite speculative applications.
Speculative applications are especially interesting, if the monetary risk per application is low. The combination of low application floor level AND high refunds is the fuel!
If the floor is lowered to US $50k – at 85% refund a speculator has only a US $ 3,750 risk per application. THAT is the main problem.
Thanks,
Alexander
*From:* Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Neuman *Sent:* Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2020 15:50 *To:* Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> *Cc:* gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Mike,
Please see the ICANN Board’s response to our Supplemental Initial Report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/chalaby-to-langdon-orr-...
“These concerns mostly center on the issues of auctions of last resort and on private auctions. We take special note of the possible practice of participating in private auctions for the sole purpose of being paid to drop out. We also take note of the abuse that becomes possible in alterations to the change request mechanisms. ● The Board has concerns about whether, and in what ways, the availability of private auctions incentivizes applications for purposes other than actually using the string; and we are interested in how these incentives for abuse might be minimized.”
Hope that helps.
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>*
*From:* Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:43 PM *To:* Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> *Cc:* gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Jeff,
Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never.
But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document?
Thanks,
Mike
Mike Rodenbaugh
RODENBAUGH LAW
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
------------------------------
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com>
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
------------------------------
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Alexander, I am trying to follow your concern here. Refunds were available according to the following schedule from Section 1.5.1 of the Guidebook. * 80% refund if within 21 days of an Early Warning * 70% after posting of all applications until posting of Initial Evaluation Results * 35% after Initial Results have been posted * 20% after applicant has completed Dispute Resolution, Extended Evaluation or String Contention Resolution * None after you have entered into a registry agreement. Your concern is someone applying to see if there are other applicants and withdrawing when they find out there are others? Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Alexander Schubert Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 4:01 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Hi All, The concern is NOT that some private auctions (or similar contention set resolutions involving payments) are “unfair” in and of itself. The concern is, that they invite speculative applications. Speculative applications are especially interesting, if the monetary risk per application is low. The combination of low application floor level AND high refunds is the fuel! If the floor is lowered to US $50k – at 85% refund a speculator has only a US $ 3,750 risk per application. THAT is the main problem. Thanks, Alexander From: Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2020 15:50 To: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Mike, Please see the ICANN Board’s response to our Supplemental Initial Report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/chalaby-to-langdon-orr-... “These concerns mostly center on the issues of auctions of last resort and on private auctions. We take special note of the possible practice of participating in private auctions for the sole purpose of being paid to drop out. We also take note of the abuse that becomes possible in alterations to the change request mechanisms. ● The Board has concerns about whether, and in what ways, the availability of private auctions incentivizes applications for purposes other than actually using the string; and we are interested in how these incentives for abuse might be minimized.” Hope that helps. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:43 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Jeff, Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never. But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document? Thanks, Mike Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image001.jpg@01D5CC87.9F418460] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>
Jeff, Apply for a potentially contested string (e.g. a city name – but WITHOUT stating that you target the city; so no letter of non-objection needed) – then trying to motivate the other applicant to buy you out right away. Just as an example. Do I want to wait to launch my city-gTLD for a year – or pay US $50k ransom? I pay 50k ransom of course. If I do not pay ransom I have to go through objections or the CPE: a long, costly experience that I equally expensive and delays my launch. If you luck out: nobody applied for the city. You own the string! Sell it to a newspaper in the target city – let THEM deal with the string. The lower the application fee and the higher the refunds: the more incentive to speculate. At least in my humble mind. Thanks, Alexander From: Jeff Neuman [mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com] Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2020 16:12 To: alexander@schubert.berlin; gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Alexander, I am trying to follow your concern here. Refunds were available according to the following schedule from Section 1.5.1 of the Guidebook. - 80% refund if within 21 days of an Early Warning - 70% after posting of all applications until posting of Initial Evaluation Results - 35% after Initial Results have been posted - 20% after applicant has completed Dispute Resolution, Extended Evaluation or String Contention Resolution - None after you have entered into a registry agreement. Your concern is someone applying to see if there are other applicants and withdrawing when they find out there are others? Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> > On Behalf Of Alexander Schubert Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 4:01 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Hi All, The concern is NOT that some private auctions (or similar contention set resolutions involving payments) are “unfair” in and of itself. The concern is, that they invite speculative applications. Speculative applications are especially interesting, if the monetary risk per application is low. The combination of low application floor level AND high refunds is the fuel! If the floor is lowered to US $50k – at 85% refund a speculator has only a US $ 3,750 risk per application. THAT is the main problem. Thanks, Alexander From: Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2020 15:50 To: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com <mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com> > Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Mike, Please see the ICANN Board’s response to our Supplemental Initial Report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/chalaby-to-langdon-orr-... “These concerns mostly center on the issues of auctions of last resort and on private auctions. We take special note of the possible practice of participating in private auctions for the sole purpose of being paid to drop out. We also take note of the abuse that becomes possible in alterations to the change request mechanisms. ● The Board has concerns about whether, and in what ways, the availability of private auctions incentivizes applications for purposes other than actually using the string; and we are interested in how these incentives for abuse might be minimized.” Hope that helps. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com <mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:43 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> > Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Jeff, Definitely a fundamental question, that was raised a long time ago and never answered. Better late than never. But I want to understand this statement of yours better please:
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Whe heard what from who, when and how, exactly? Is that actually within any formal Board Resolution or other policy document? Thanks, Mike Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> > wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/> _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com>
<Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Rubens, how would you ever prove the applicant's intent, in either case you posit? Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 1:14 PM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br> wrote:
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman* Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
<image003.jpg>
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Why can’t the applicants be required when they file the application to swear under oath that that aren’t going to use the process to game the system? Of course, proper wording would be hashed out. Very truly yours, Karen J. Bernstein, Esq.* Bernstein IP 200 Park Avenue, Suite 1700 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> New York, NY 10166 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> Tel: (212) 339-9955 Fax: (646) 365-3208 E-Mail: kjb@bernsteinip.com <kjb@bernsteinip.com> Skype: K.Bernsteinlaw * Admitted in NY, PA, CO This message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please forward the email back and delete all copies of the message and attachments. On Jan 16, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> wrote: Rubens, how would you ever prove the applicant's intent, in either case you posit? Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 1:14 PM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br> wrote:
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman* Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
<image003.jpg>
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
And that the applicant could forfeit the application if there’s proof that they had a bad faith intent in filing the application in the first place. Very truly yours, Karen J. Bernstein, Esq.* Bernstein IP 200 Park Avenue, Suite 1700 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> New York, NY 10166 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> Tel: (212) 339-9955 Fax: (646) 365-3208 E-Mail: kjb@bernsteinip.com <kjb@bernsteinip.com> Skype: K.Bernsteinlaw * Admitted in NY, PA, CO This message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please forward the email back and delete all copies of the message and attachments. On Jan 16, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Karen Bernstein <kjb@bernsteinip.com> wrote: Why can’t the applicants be required when they file the application to swear under oath that that aren’t going to use the process to game the system? Of course, proper wording would be hashed out. Very truly yours, Karen J. Bernstein, Esq.* Bernstein IP 200 Park Avenue, Suite 1700 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> New York, NY 10166 <x-apple-data-detectors://2/1> Tel: (212) 339-9955 Fax: (646) 365-3208 E-Mail: kjb@bernsteinip.com <kjb@bernsteinip.com> Skype: K.Bernsteinlaw * Admitted in NY, PA, CO This message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please forward the email back and delete all copies of the message and attachments. On Jan 16, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> wrote: Rubens, how would you ever prove the applicant's intent, in either case you posit? Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 1:14 PM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br> wrote:
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman* Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
<image003.jpg>
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Mike, We are not there yet... we are only listing good and bad behaviours. Some of them might be detectable, some not; what you called for is part of the next phase in the exercise, which is to choose a system. And in every system we need to identify whether false positives and false negatives can happen or not, and how to mitigate those. Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 18:54, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike@rodenbaugh.com> wrote:
Rubens, how would you ever prove the applicant's intent, in either case you posit?
Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 http://rodenbaugh.law <http://rodenbaugh.law/>
On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 1:14 PM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br <mailto:rubensk@nic.br>> wrote:
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy. Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? <Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Hi Kristne, not necessarily the applicant (for example, then current CEO of the company) knows it all ( and might have no info on later intentions of the shareholders), so I do not see how to prevent situations where applications sent by small companies, which are going to be directed differently on later stages of the process (or acquired by real players, or by the next level shells). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
On 17 Jan 2020, at 02:57, Dorrain, Kristine via Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy.
Kristine
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Kristine, This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race. It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude. Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com> wrote:
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy.
Kristine
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Kristine, This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race. It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com<mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy. Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? <Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521.
Good evening: I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context. 1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions. 2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact. 3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all. Regards CW
On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com> wrote:
I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj...> Anne
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Kristine,
This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race.
It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote:
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy.
Kristine
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thanks Christopher. Collusion is defined<https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collusion> as “agreement between people to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone.” I am not sure we can say for a FACT that collusion occurred “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” Yes, parties did work in secret and came up with “agreements”, but the second element or deceit or cheat is just as important. In the last round the Applicant Guidebook not only allowed working in private to resolve contention sets, but it encouraged it. The mere act of having private auctions does not equate to there being collusion. That said, we still may want to list collusion as an “undesirable activity”; but collusion would include the “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” The second question, however, is do we believe that private auctions, in and of themselves, for the New gTLD Program, should be considered “undesirable activity.” Although not “collusion”, we could still attempt to disallow them. That is what we are trying to get a sense of from the group. Are Private Auctions (whether done legitimately or not) undesirable for resolving contention sets? Does it harm the reputation of ICANN or the program? Please note, as one of the Co-Chairs, I am not taking a position on this, other than to note that many of the comments (including from the GAC, ICANN Board, NCSG, some registries, BC, Gov’t of India, etc.) stated in their comments that private auctions where funds are distributed back to the losing applicants, may not be desirable. Other groups, including some registries, the RrSG, the IPC, Neustar, BRG, etc. however, did support private auctions where are applicants agree to participate. Thanks. Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of lists@christopherwilkinson.eu Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 3:44 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Good evening: I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context. 1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions. 2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact. 3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all. Regards CW On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com>> wrote: I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com<mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Kristine, This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race. It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com<mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy. Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? <Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>
Er dhould also remember that the auctions were offered / enforced by ICANN as last resort and the preference was always that the parties work it out amongst themselves. Whether that took the way of a private auction or a backroom deal, or even a cooperation between the applicants was of no difference to the last program, it was the intended process, even though those that wrote and agreed to it did likely not imagine all the different forms this process would take. Best, Volker Am 20.01.2020 um 23:13 schrieb Jeff Neuman:
Thanks Christopher.
Collusion is defined <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collusion> as “agreement between people to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone.” I am not sure we can say for a FACT that collusion occurred “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” Yes, parties did work in secret and came up with “agreements”, but the second element or deceit or cheat is just as important.
In the last round the Applicant Guidebook not only allowed working in private to resolve contention sets, but it encouraged it. The mere act of having private auctions does not equate to there being collusion.
That said, we still may want to list collusion as an “undesirable activity”; but collusion would include the “in order to deceive or cheat someone.”
The second question, however, is do we believe that private auctions, in and of themselves, for the New gTLD Program, should be considered “undesirable activity.” Although not “collusion”, we could still attempt to disallow them.
That is what we are trying to get a sense of from the group. Are Private Auctions (whether done legitimately or not) undesirable for resolving contention sets? Does it harm the reputation of ICANN or the program?
Please note, as one of the Co-Chairs, I am not taking a position on this, other than to note that many of the comments (including from the GAC, ICANN Board, NCSG, some registries, BC, Gov’t of India, etc.) stated in their comments that private auctions where funds are distributed back to the losing applicants, may not be desirable. Other groups, including some registries, the RrSG, the IPC, Neustar, BRG, etc. however, did support private auctions where are applicants agree to participate.
Thanks.
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: _jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>_
*From:* Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *lists@christopherwilkinson.eu *Sent:* Monday, January 20, 2020 3:44 PM *To:* gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Good evening:
I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context.
1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions.
2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact.
3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all.
Regards
CW
On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com>> wrote:
I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj...
Anne
*From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>>*On Behalf Of*Rubens Kuhl *Sent:*Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM *To:*Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> *Cc:*gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Kristine,
This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race.
It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote:
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy.
Kristine
*From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>>*On Behalf Of*Rubens Kuhl *Sent:*Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM *To:*gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours:
- Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them.
- Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
**
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E:_jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>_ www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
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This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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I have suggested replacing the word “collusion” in the Google doc – see suggested language there. Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 3:13 PM To: lists@christopherwilkinson.eu; gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? [EXTERNAL] ________________________________ Thanks Christopher. Collusion is defined<https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collusion> as “agreement between people to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone.” I am not sure we can say for a FACT that collusion occurred “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” Yes, parties did work in secret and came up with “agreements”, but the second element or deceit or cheat is just as important. In the last round the Applicant Guidebook not only allowed working in private to resolve contention sets, but it encouraged it. The mere act of having private auctions does not equate to there being collusion. That said, we still may want to list collusion as an “undesirable activity”; but collusion would include the “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” The second question, however, is do we believe that private auctions, in and of themselves, for the New gTLD Program, should be considered “undesirable activity.” Although not “collusion”, we could still attempt to disallow them. That is what we are trying to get a sense of from the group. Are Private Auctions (whether done legitimately or not) undesirable for resolving contention sets? Does it harm the reputation of ICANN or the program? Please note, as one of the Co-Chairs, I am not taking a position on this, other than to note that many of the comments (including from the GAC, ICANN Board, NCSG, some registries, BC, Gov’t of India, etc.) stated in their comments that private auctions where funds are distributed back to the losing applicants, may not be desirable. Other groups, including some registries, the RrSG, the IPC, Neustar, BRG, etc. however, did support private auctions where are applicants agree to participate. Thanks. Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of lists@christopherwilkinson.eu<mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 3:44 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Good evening: I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context. 1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions. 2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact. 3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all. Regards CW On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com>> wrote: I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com<mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Kristine, This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race. It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com<mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy. Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? <Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. 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Dear Jeff: It would appear that we are coming to this from rather different perspectives. Regarding definitions, I would not heave to any particular one. Oxford (OED), Webster and Cambridge each have slightly different definitions. Regarding deceiving or cheating 'someone', the prime candidate is of course ICANN itself, and - indirectly - the legitimate beneficiaries of the ICANN budgets, in this context most likely, applicant support. We need look no further. So, if we do need external guidance, I would rather look to the jurisprudence of competition policy in the EU, US and elsewhere. However, more generally, it is down to ICANN to determine what is allowed (legal) and what is not allowed (not legal). That is s considerable power. Were it not so we wouldn't be getting scores of participants on our conference calls! We are not able to pass the buck to other people's dictionaries. I have pointed out on several occasions that incumbents should not be determining the terms and conditions for new entrants. Your concluding paragraph, below, is an eloquent illustration of that concern. Regards, Christopher
On 20 Jan 2020, at 23:13, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Thanks Christopher.
Collusion is defined <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collusion> as “agreement between people to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone.” I am not sure we can say for a FACT that collusion occurred “in order to deceive or cheat someone.” Yes, parties did work in secret and came up with “agreements”, but the second element or deceit or cheat is just as important.
In the last round the Applicant Guidebook not only allowed working in private to resolve contention sets, but it encouraged it. The mere act of having private auctions does not equate to there being collusion.
That said, we still may want to list collusion as an “undesirable activity”; but collusion would include the “in order to deceive or cheat someone.”
The second question, however, is do we believe that private auctions, in and of themselves, for the New gTLD Program, should be considered “undesirable activity.” Although not “collusion”, we could still attempt to disallow them.
That is what we are trying to get a sense of from the group. Are Private Auctions (whether done legitimately or not) undesirable for resolving contention sets? Does it harm the reputation of ICANN or the program?
Please note, as one of the Co-Chairs, I am not taking a position on this, other than to note that many of the comments (including from the GAC, ICANN Board, NCSG, some registries, BC, Gov’t of India, etc.) stated in their comments that private auctions where funds are distributed back to the losing applicants, may not be desirable. Other groups, including some registries, the RrSG, the IPC, Neustar, BRG, etc. however, did support private auctions where are applicants agree to participate.
Thanks.
Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of lists@christopherwilkinson.eu <mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 3:44 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Good evening:
I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context.
1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions.
2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact.
3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all.
Regards
CW
On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com>> wrote:
I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj...> Anne
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
Kristine,
This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race.
It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine <dorraink@amazon.com <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com>> wrote:
Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy.
Kristine
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable?
<Leadership Hat Off>
I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them.
Rubens
On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets.
So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow.
For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc.
We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable.
Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/>
Hi, Again doc <https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj...> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... In number 9 it states: “Encourage new entrants into the field.” Could we define what constitutes a “new entrant”? If we are discussing “entrants”: * Is that the legal entity that submits the application? Or the management team behind it? If so: In the coming round almost EVERY SINGLE application will be submitted by a unique legal entity (to be better positioned to trade the asset) – and all these entities will be “new”. A newly minted U.S. or offshore company costs virtually nothing. So does a newly minted legal entity constitute a “new entrant”? That would describe most if not all applicants. * Is it the team behind the application? Does that team have to be “new”? Most “new” applicants will be guided by some sort of consultant who is experienced. Plus: If “new entrants” receive any benefits in any way form or shape: then it’s always simple to “hide” the true owners – and to hide the true management crew. So I wonder what the criteria for “new entrant” would be, how gaming can be circumvented and how and who would vet the applicant owners and their “external management” team. In Alternative 1 (Vickrey Auction): “Bids are submitted along with the applications, so they would not have any information about the contention set…” How does Alternative 1 prevent private contention set resolutions? Applicants can agree on pay-outs and retract their applications so that there is only one left. See also “reveal day” and “public comment” in “additional considerations”: the applicant identities will be public after reveal day, right? Thanks, Alexander From: Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of lists@christopherwilkinson.eu Sent: Montag, 20. Januar 2020 15:44 To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Good evening: I strongly 'suggest' that we do not want to replace the word 'Collusion' in this context. 1. Collusion took place in the last round, otherwise there could not have been any private auctions. 2. The fact that we are discussing this at all strongly suggests - to the outside world - that we would prefer to dissimulate that fact. 3. ICANN is the regulator of the conditions of competition in this sector; if we cannot deal with this matter, it severely undermines the original rationale for having ICANN at all. Regards CW On 17 Jan 2020, at 17:30, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman@lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> > wrote: I put some suggested language in the Google doc to replace the word “Collusion”: <https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj...> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16qDoiK6vydQp6a0v9tMvU2l5fcypJY24hCzTIVTj... Anne From: Gnso-newgtld-wg < <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 2:58 AM To: Dorrain, Kristine < <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com> dorraink@amazon.com> Cc: <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? Kristine, This is a not a reasonable business adjustment. If the contention set seems "unbeatable", one could withdraw or simply wait the appropriate refund. A similar way to see #2 is a participant in a race that starts extorting other racers when it realises it won't win the race. It doesn't matter that the original intent had good faith; if someone switches to a bad behaviour on the fly, then it's now up for a new assessment of its attitude. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 20:57, Dorrain, Kristine < <mailto:dorraink@amazon.com> dorraink@amazon.com> wrote: Hi Rubens, with respect to #2, you admit good faith intent at the time of application. At what point would an applicant’s reasonable business adjustment reacting to the unforeseen business impact of third party applications and business decisions switch the first applicant’s good faith to bad faith? It seems like the community would get to use the benefit of hindsight to judge the reactionary business decisions made by other applications in their business strategy. Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg < <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:14 PM To: <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] What behaviors would we consider undesirable? <Leadership Hat Off> I will start with two different although similar bad behaviours: - Apply with no intention to actually run the TLDs, just to get into private auctions and profit from losing them. - Apply with intent to run the TLDs, but after contention sets are revealed, change strategy to profit from losing some TLDs instead of fighting to get them. Rubens On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:17, Jeff Neuman < <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote: All, On the call early this morning (for some of us), while we were discussing the goals/objectives to consider when selecting a mechanism of last resort to resolve string contention, a very important question was asked by a participant on the call. The question demonstrated that what one person believes is “Bad Faith” other people may not believe is “bad faith” with respect to mechanisms to resolve contention sets. So, with the e-mail chain, I would like for members of the Working Group to discuss what behaviors they would consider to be of the type that we would like to preclude? And by the same token, what are the types of activities that we know we would like to allow. For example, we believe from most of the comments that have come in as well as in our discussions, that some forms of private resolution have been deemed acceptable. This includes the creation of joint ventures between applicants (assuming public comment, etc.), potentially revising applications to address concerns (eg., trademark owner agrees to withdraw its application if other applicant agrees to mitigate trademark abuse), 2 trademark owners agree to modify strings to enable both to have their own TLDs (eg., .deltafaucets or .deltaair)), etc. We have also heard from the ICANN Board that they may believe that participating in private auctions with the sole purpose of losing and using those to fund other auctions may not be as desirable. Though the next call with not be on this topic, we did want to put this issue out on e-mail. Please discuss. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/> www.comlaude.com <image003.jpg> _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. 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participants (10)
-
Aikman-Scalese, Anne -
Alexander Schubert -
Dorrain, Kristine -
Jeff Neuman -
Karen Bernstein -
lists＠christopherwilkinson.eu -
Maxim Alzoba -
Mike Rodenbaugh -
Rubens Kuhl -
Volker Greimann