Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group

All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 - currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a "compromise position" of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image003.jpg@01D558D6.0CFB5060] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>

Please add me to the "closed generics discussion list": alexander@schubert.berlin <mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Donnerstag, 22. August 2019 17:41 To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg> . The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrou R4AI/edit#heading=h.j7jy935ryg4k> (specifically Section 2.7.3 - currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a "compromise position" of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06 -21-en> temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/> www.comlaude.com _____ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com>

Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Please add me as well to the closed generic discussion list. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 12:00, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal>
Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Thanks Martin. Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default. I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>

Jeff, The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all. So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
Thanks Martin.
Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default.
I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/>

Martin, I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Jeff, The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all. So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: Thanks Martin. Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default. I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>

Of course, but yet again, having no agreement is not a wild card that the board could use to allow generics, it’s quite the opposite. Only if we agree to allow them the board could approve them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:12, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
Martin,
I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Jeff,
The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all.
So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Thanks Martin.
Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default.
I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
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The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/>

Jeff, Trang, et al It strikes me that any registry that had to change its 2012 application from “Closed” to “Open” (in order to win an auction or otherwise be awarded the generic TLD) would be very interested in the possibility of getting a new policy permitting closed generics applied to the terms of its existing registry agreement. Otherwise, we could be creating an “unfair playing field”. Therefore, factual data from ICANN staff as to which registries from 2012 switched from “Closed” proposals to “Open” proposals should also be considered by the small group. TRANG – could you please (1) recirculate the list of 2012 applications that have not been withdrawn, (2) Identify any 2012 Closed Generic applications that were switched to “open” status in order to qualify for delegation or for a Contention Set, and (3) Let us know who won the contention set for a generic where one or more of the original applicants applied for a Closed Generic? The above information should be very helpful to the small group. Another question for the group might be: Would it be fair to allow the winner of an open generic contention set to update to a new policy and operate a closed generic under that new policy if the bidders in the contention set in 2012 were bidding solely based on an understanding that the registry would need to be “open”? This also affects the policy question I was asking about giving priority to applications from 2012 that have not been delegated. My question was: What policy applies if those applications are given priority? Old policy or new policy? I believe Susan Payne is drafting some language relative to priority for 2012 applications as well as priority for applications that remain unresolved when a future round closes. I am not sure how that language might (or might not) apply to a registry agreement issued in 2012 where the registry may desire to “switch” to any new policy adopted as to “Closed Generics”. As to Board action and consideration of what the Board will do, one element that needs to be considered is the standing GAC Advice that a Closed Generic “should serve a public interest goal”. Since the Board would have to have 11 votes to act against that Advice, it may be worthwhile for the small group to develop some examples demonstrating what “public interest goal” might be served by a Closed Generic. Thank you, Anne Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.622.3088 fax AAikman@lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> _____________________________ [cid:image003.png@01D558F2.B6768C10] Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 lrrc.com<http://lrrc.com/> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Martin Pablo Silva Valent Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:25 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group [EXTERNAL] ________________________________ Of course, but yet again, having no agreement is not a wild card that the board could use to allow generics, it’s quite the opposite. Only if we agree to allow them the board could approve them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:12, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: Martin, I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Jeff, The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all. So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: Thanks Martin. Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default. I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. 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The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. 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The 2012 round is out of scope... On 8/22/2019 5:05 PM, Aikman-Scalese, Anne wrote:
Jeff, Trang, et al
It strikes me that any registry that had to change its 2012 application from “Closed” to “Open” (in order to win an auction or otherwise be awarded the generic TLD) would be very interested in the possibility of getting a new policy permitting closed generics applied to the terms of its existing registry agreement. Otherwise, we could be creating an “unfair playing field”. Therefore, factual data from ICANN staff as to which registries from 2012 switched from “Closed” proposals to “Open” proposals should also be considered by the small group.
TRANG – could you please
(1) recirculate the list of 2012 applications that have not been withdrawn,
(2) Identify any 2012 Closed Generic applications that were switched to “open” status in order to qualify for delegation or for a Contention Set, and
(3) Let us know who won the contention set for a generic where one or more of the original applicants applied for a Closed Generic?
The above information should be very helpful to the small group.
Another question for the group might be: Would it be fair to allow the winner of an open generic contention set to update to a new policy and operate a closed generic under that new policy if the bidders in the contention set in 2012 were bidding solely based on an understanding that the registry would need to be “open”?
This also affects the policy question I was asking about giving priority to applications from 2012 that have not been delegated. My question was: What policy applies if those applications are given priority? Old policy or new policy? I believe Susan Payne is drafting some language relative to priority for 2012 applications as well as priority for applications that remain unresolved when a future round closes. I am not sure how that language might (or might not) apply to a registry agreement issued in 2012 where the registry may desire to “switch” to any new policy adopted as to “Closed Generics”.
As to Board action and consideration of what the Board will do, one element that needs to be considered is the standing GAC Advice that a Closed Generic “should serve a public interest goal”. Since the Board would have to have 11 votes to act against that Advice, it may be worthwhile for the small group to develop some examples demonstrating what “public interest goal” might be served by a Closed Generic.
Thank you,
Anne
*Anne E. Aikman-Scalese*
Of Counsel
520.629.4428 office
520.622.3088 fax
AAikman@lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com>
_____________________________
Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP
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*From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Martin Pablo Silva Valent *Sent:* Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:25 AM *To:* Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> *Cc:* gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
*[EXTERNAL]*
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Of course, but yet again, having no agreement is not a wild card that the board could use to allow generics, it’s quite the opposite. Only if we agree to allow them the board could approve them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
*Partner | Silva.legal *martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal>
*Director | Dat.as*
martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:12, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Martin,
I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose.
Best regards,
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*
D: +1.703.635.7514
E:_jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>_
*From:*Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM *To:*Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> *Cc:*gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Jeff,
The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all.
So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
*Partner | Silva.legal *martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal>
*Director | Dat.as*
martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Thanks Martin.
Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default.
I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides.
Thanks.
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus*
D: +1.703.635.7514
E:_jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>_
*From:*Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM *To:*Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> *Cc:*gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Hi all,
I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
*Partner | Silva.legal *martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal>
*Director | Dat.as*
martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on theagenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document ishere <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR4AI/edit#heading=h.j7jy935ryg4k>(specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that theBoard decided to/temporarily/not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
*Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.*
**
*Best regards,*
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
**
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
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Closed generics is one of the very few topics applicable to the 2012 round in the WG charter. Rubens
On 22 Aug 2019, at 23:28, Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com> wrote:
The 2012 round is out of scope...
On 8/22/2019 5:05 PM, Aikman-Scalese, Anne wrote:
Jeff, Trang, et al
It strikes me that any registry that had to change its 2012 application from “Closed” to “Open” (in order to win an auction or otherwise be awarded the generic TLD) would be very interested in the possibility of getting a new policy permitting closed generics applied to the terms of its existing registry agreement. Otherwise, we could be creating an “unfair playing field”. Therefore, factual data from ICANN staff as to which registries from 2012 switched from “Closed” proposals to “Open” proposals should also be considered by the small group.
TRANG – could you please (1) recirculate the list of 2012 applications that have not been withdrawn,
(2) Identify any 2012 Closed Generic applications that were switched to “open” status in order to qualify for delegation or for a Contention Set, and
(3) Let us know who won the contention set for a generic where one or more of the original applicants applied for a Closed Generic?
The above information should be very helpful to the small group.
Another question for the group might be: Would it be fair to allow the winner of an open generic contention set to update to a new policy and operate a closed generic under that new policy if the bidders in the contention set in 2012 were bidding solely based on an understanding that the registry would need to be “open”?
This also affects the policy question I was asking about giving priority to applications from 2012 that have not been delegated. My question was: What policy applies if those applications are given priority? Old policy or new policy? I believe Susan Payne is drafting some language relative to priority for 2012 applications as well as priority for applications that remain unresolved when a future round closes. I am not sure how that language might (or might not) apply to a registry agreement issued in 2012 where the registry may desire to “switch” to any new policy adopted as to “Closed Generics”.
As to Board action and consideration of what the Board will do, one element that needs to be considered is the standing GAC Advice that a Closed Generic “should serve a public interest goal”. Since the Board would have to have 11 votes to act against that Advice, it may be worthwhile for the small group to develop some examples demonstrating what “public interest goal” might be served by a Closed Generic.
Thank you, Anne
Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.622.3088 fax AAikman@lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> _____________________________ <image003.png> Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 lrrc.com <http://lrrc.com/>
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Martin Pablo Silva Valent Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:25 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
[EXTERNAL] Of course, but yet again, having no agreement is not a wild card that the board could use to allow generics, it’s quite the opposite. Only if we agree to allow them the board could approve them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
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On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:12, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Martin,
I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Jeff,
The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all.
So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Thanks Martin.
Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default.
I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides.
Thanks.
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>
From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group
Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
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Early on when we were first discussing closed generics, I raised a concern about how changes in the policy could unfairly impact applicants from 2012 who were forced to withdraw or alter their applications. I was told by the leadership that it was unfortunate but this group was focused on the next round and not the 2012 round. It would be helpful to know if that is still the position this group is adhering to. From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:07 PM To: Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com> Cc: Dorrain, Kristine via Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Closed generics is one of the very few topics applicable to the 2012 round in the WG charter. Rubens On 22 Aug 2019, at 23:28, Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>> wrote: The 2012 round is out of scope... On 8/22/2019 5:05 PM, Aikman-Scalese, Anne wrote: Jeff, Trang, et al It strikes me that any registry that had to change its 2012 application from “Closed” to “Open” (in order to win an auction or otherwise be awarded the generic TLD) would be very interested in the possibility of getting a new policy permitting closed generics applied to the terms of its existing registry agreement. Otherwise, we could be creating an “unfair playing field”. Therefore, factual data from ICANN staff as to which registries from 2012 switched from “Closed” proposals to “Open” proposals should also be considered by the small group. TRANG – could you please (1) recirculate the list of 2012 applications that have not been withdrawn, (2) Identify any 2012 Closed Generic applications that were switched to “open” status in order to qualify for delegation or for a Contention Set, and (3) Let us know who won the contention set for a generic where one or more of the original applicants applied for a Closed Generic? The above information should be very helpful to the small group. Another question for the group might be: Would it be fair to allow the winner of an open generic contention set to update to a new policy and operate a closed generic under that new policy if the bidders in the contention set in 2012 were bidding solely based on an understanding that the registry would need to be “open”? This also affects the policy question I was asking about giving priority to applications from 2012 that have not been delegated. My question was: What policy applies if those applications are given priority? Old policy or new policy? I believe Susan Payne is drafting some language relative to priority for 2012 applications as well as priority for applications that remain unresolved when a future round closes. I am not sure how that language might (or might not) apply to a registry agreement issued in 2012 where the registry may desire to “switch” to any new policy adopted as to “Closed Generics”. As to Board action and consideration of what the Board will do, one element that needs to be considered is the standing GAC Advice that a Closed Generic “should serve a public interest goal”. Since the Board would have to have 11 votes to act against that Advice, it may be worthwhile for the small group to develop some examples demonstrating what “public interest goal” might be served by a Closed Generic. Thank you, Anne Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.622.3088 fax AAikman@lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> _____________________________ <image003.png> Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 lrrc.com<http://lrrc.com/> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Martin Pablo Silva Valent Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:25 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com><mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group [EXTERNAL] ________________________________ Of course, but yet again, having no agreement is not a wild card that the board could use to allow generics, it’s quite the opposite. Only if we agree to allow them the board could approve them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:12, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: Martin, I think arguments can be made in a lot of different ways (and understand you disagree with that), but I would ask us to focus on whether we can find some compromise solution. I am hoping you are joining the small group to help us find some sort of compromise (if we can) as that is its purpose. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:40 PM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Jeff, The board can always take decisions we cannot anticipate with certainty, but we can have an opinion on what the board should do. It is clear for me that there is no scenario were with good faith and rational, even legitimacy, a board decision over closed generic should open them without our explicit consent to it and the rules it will have according to us in that case. The community holds the power and legitimacy in the bottom-up model in gTLDs, and not allowing the closed generic is the default because that was what current practice and previos board decisions have been. Specially since it is also clear there are clear community concerns of they even being allowed at all. So no, I do not think it is fair to say that we don0’t now what the board will say if we don’t agree, therefore we should agree on something. Not agreeing to open the generic is a valid solution and that means the current state of affairs holds, unless the board goes rogue and creates PDP new policy against the will of the constituencies entitled to create such policy. The temporal designo is the solution the board came to in the absence of us agreeing to have them in the first place. That is the logical solution and there is no reason to think otherwise. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 13:25, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: Thanks Martin. Although I understand your arguments, my only point was that it is not as clear as it is in other situations. And if we hang our hat on the argument that the default means what you believe it means (and therefore rely on what you believe the default means), we need to recognize that that may not be how the Board interprets the default. I am glad to see that you have volunteered to join the group which hopefully means that you are willing to help work on a compromise position between the many sides. Thanks. Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:00 AM To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them. Best, Martin Silva Valent mpsilvavalent@gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal<mailto:martin@silva.legal> Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as<mailto:martin.silva@dat.as> Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina. Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote: All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> <image003.jpg> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com/> ________________________________ This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If the reader of this message or an attachment is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message or attachment to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender. The information transmitted in this message and any attachments may be privileged, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipients, and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Martin, One of the main indicators that there was no baseline in 2012 is the fact that closed generic is not part of the evaluation criteria. There was no such assessment by the evaluators, and even today there is no indicator in the gTLD application website that an application is or was a closed generic. ICANN Org also didn't analyse or hired 3rd party evaluators to do such analysis; they only relied on GAC Advice indicating which applications were closed generic and which were not. So, in order to repeat what happened in 2012, the GAC scorecard for each application would require not only "Early Warning", "Non-Consensus Advice" or "Consensus Advice", but also "Closed Generic". Do we really want that moving forward ? Does GAC want that responsibility ? So, if the answer for the closed generic questions is something other than they are vanilla applications, we need to establish clear evaluation guidance in order to have predictability. Regardless of blocking them altogether or allowing in some cases. Rubens
Em 22 de ago de 2019, à(s) 12:00:000, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com> escreveu:
Hi all, I would like to strongly disagree with the view on the default issue, it is very clear that the default is not allowing them. The temporality goes towards an eventual policy that may contradict the board, in that case, the board recognizes our policy allowing them would win over their decision not to, if that policy explicitly allowing them in x and y terms cannot be created because there is no consensus for that, then the ban on generics remains. So no new consensus policy allowing them means not allowing them.
Best,
Martin Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>
Partner | Silva.legal martin@silva.legal <mailto:martin@silva.legal>
Director | Dat.as martin.silva@dat.as <mailto:martin.silva@dat.as>
Skype ID: mpsilvavalent Tel: +5491164993943 Libertador 5990, Off. 406 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Este email, incluyendo adjuntos, podría contener información confidencial protegida por ley y es para uso exclusivo de su destinatario. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, se le advierte que cualquier uso, difusión, copia o retención de este email o su contenido está estrictamente prohibido. Si Ud. recibió este email por error, por favor avise inmediatamente al remitente por teléfono o email y borre el mismo de su computadora. / This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain information that is protected by law as privileged and confidential, and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying or retention of this e-mail or the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system.
On 22 Aug 2019, at 11:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Please add me to the list. I can also contribute to spreading the message if necessary. To do so, I will need a "go" (better when I have a link too). Thank you. Jean Guillon Le jeu. 22 août 2019 à 16:41, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> a écrit :
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to *temporarily* not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
*Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.*
*Best regards,*
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

While I'm not willing to join the small group, I'll try describing a 10,000-feet view of the current options for a possible way forward with closed generics. Some of the options included criteria that would apply at application time; others included criteria that would apply throughout the life of the contract. This suggest that separating these decisions, even if the final decision is made on the package, might be a way. At application time, the options seem to be: - Banning them altogether - Allowing provided some extra conditions are met (public interest analysis, public interest commitments, tangible benefit, innovation gain etc.) - Allowing with no extra conditions For the life of the TLD, the options seem to be: - Use the current PIC framework - Make an allocation code of conduct (the current code of conduct, as Jeff mentioned, is linked to registry-registrar separation) Rubens
Em 22 de ago de 2019, à(s) 11:40:000, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> escreveu:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR4AI/edit#heading=h.j7jy935ryg4k>(specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Hi all, I'll join the subgroup. Best, Kristine From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:41 AM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 - currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a "compromise position" of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image001.jpg@01D558F3.809C93E0] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>

Hi All, I will join this group as well. Michael Flemming El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 23:41, Jeff Neuman (<jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>) escribió:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to *temporarily* not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
*Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.*
*Best regards,*
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Hello All, I'd also like to be added to this list. Best, Bruna Le jeu. 22 août 2019 à 23:23, Michael Flemming < flemming@brightsconsulting.com> a écrit :
Hi All,
I will join this group as well.
Michael Flemming
El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 23:41, Jeff Neuman (<jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>) escribió:
All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to *temporarily* not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
*Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.*
*Best regards,*
*Jeff Neuman*
Senior Vice President
*Com Laude | Valideus *1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: *jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>* www.comlaude.com
------------------------------ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *Bruna Martins dos Santos * Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos @boomartins

I would like be join this group. Kurt Pritz
On Aug 23, 2019, at 5:28 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos <bruna.mrtns@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello All,
I'd also like to be added to this list.
Best, Bruna
Le jeu. 22 août 2019 à 23:23, Michael Flemming <flemming@brightsconsulting.com <mailto:flemming@brightsconsulting.com>> a écrit : Hi All,
I will join this group as well.
Michael Flemming
El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 23:41, Jeff Neuman (<jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>>) escribió: All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page <https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012 <https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman
Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com <http://www.comlaude.com/>
<image003.jpg>
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com <https://comlaude.com/>_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Bruna Martins dos Santos
Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos @boomartins _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Include me as well please. Peter LaMantia Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:47 AM, Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> wrote:
I would like be join this group.
Kurt Pritz
On Aug 23, 2019, at 5:28 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos <bruna.mrtns@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello All,
I'd also like to be added to this list.
Best, Bruna
Le jeu. 22 août 2019 à 23:23, Michael Flemming <flemming@brightsconsulting.com> a écrit : Hi All,
I will join this group as well.
Michael Flemming
El jue., 22 ago. 2019 a las 23:41, Jeff Neuman (<jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>) escribió: All,
Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page. The latest version of the Summary Document is here (specifically Section 2.7.3 – currently pages 14-20).
One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a “compromise position” of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group.
One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise.
If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached).
To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti.
Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another.
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Best regards,
Jeff Neuman
Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive
Suite 600, McLean
VA 22102, USA
M: +1.202.549.5079
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com www.comlaude.com
<image003.jpg>
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_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Jeff, I would like to join this discussion group. Best, Elisa Elisa Cooper SVP Marketing and Policy Brandsight 208 863 9361 From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Neuman Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:41 AM To: gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Closed Generics / Creation of Sub-group All, Thanks for the great discussion on Closed Generics earlier today/yesterday. For those that were not able to be on the call, I highly recommend listening to the recording which can be found on the agenda wiki page<https://community.icann.org/x/VqujBg>. The latest version of the Summary Document is here<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR...> (specifically Section 2.7.3 - currently pages 14-20). One of the action items from the call with to create a small sub-group to discuss this issue further to see if it is possible to get a "compromise position" of the Working Group on one of the options that were presented (or any hybrid or new option). We are seeking volunteers to serve on this small group. Please let us know if you would like to sign up for this group. One word of caution: This group is not being set up to rehash the arguments for and against Closed Generics. We have spent more than enough time on that issue and the Summary Documents, combines with the Initial Report and Public Comment Analysis referenced in the Summary Document we believe have effectively captured all of that. What we are looking for is whether there is any solution that can address/mitigate the alleged harms expressed by those that oppose Closed Generics. We are trying to assess whether there is an appetite in the group to compromise. If, after several weeks, we (the Leadership) do not believe there is such an appetite, then we will close the small group down. The last thing we want to do is waste a lot of time discussing an issue that no side is willing to give anymore on. Although you should be familiar with the Summary Document, please do not make any changes to that document at this time (other than glaring errors). The focus should be on finding a compromise (if there is one to be reached). To reiterate, this is a unique situation we have with this issue, because there technically may not be a default position to fall back on. Although it is true that the Board decided to temporarily not allow Closed Generics in 2012<https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-...>, the ICANN Board expressly asked the GNSO to create policy on this matter. The Board, in deciding not to temporarily allow closed generics did not expressly endorse any argument for or against closed generics, but rather made it clear that this was an issue for the communti. Therefore, if we cannot agree on a solution, it is not clear what the ICANN Board would ultimately conclude was the default position. It could be the default was not allowing them or, alternatively, the default could be allowing them because the AGB did not indicate a position on this one way or another. Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavor to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away. Best regards, Jeff Neuman Senior Vice President Com Laude | Valideus 1751 Pinnacle Drive Suite 600, McLean VA 22102, USA M: +1.202.549.5079 D: +1.703.635.7514 E: jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> www.comlaude.com<http://www.comlaude.com/> [cid:image001.jpg@01D5598C.9C7B7DD0] ________________________________ The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete it. Please note that the Com Laude Group does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 06181291 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176, having its registered office at 33 Melville Street, Edinburgh, Lothian, EH3 7JF Scotland; Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, headquartered at 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600, McLean, VA 22102, USA; Com Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan having its registered office at Suite 319,1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku, Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan. For further information see www.comlaude.com<https://comlaude.com>

On 22 Aug 2019, at 16:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com <mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com>> wrote:
Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavour to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.
Thankyou. Noted. Please add me to this group. Please use the <cw@christopherwilkinson.eu <mailto:cw@christopherwilkinson.eu>> address, because <lists@*> has become too busy.
I shall contribute to the eventual List, but may not be available for conference calls (if any) since I am already managing a quite heavy personal schedule. CW

Jeff, Please add me to the Closed Generics Subgroup. Thanks! Greg On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 2:56 PM lists@christopherwilkinson.eu < lists@christopherwilkinson.eu> wrote:
On 22 Aug 2019, at 16:40, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> wrote:
*Please let us know ASAP if you would like to join this discussion. We will endeavour to get this list up by early next week and try to start discussing the issues right away.*
Thankyou. Noted. Please add me to this group. Please use the < cw@christopherwilkinson.eu> address, because <lists@*> has become too busy.
I shall contribute to the eventual List, but may not be available for conference calls (if any) since I am already managing a quite heavy personal schedule.
CW
_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
participants (16)
-
Aikman-Scalese, Anne
-
Alexander Schubert
-
Bruna Martins dos Santos
-
Dorrain, Kristine
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Elisa Cooper
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Greg Shatan
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Jean Guillon
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Jeff Neuman
-
Jim Prendergast
-
Kathy Kleiman
-
Kurt Pritz
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lists@christopherwilkinson.eu
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Martin Pablo Silva Valent
-
Michael Flemming
-
Peter LaMantia
-
Rubens Kuhl