Hi Margie,

as the terms license, licensee or licensed are not capitalized, we cannot infer that both sections actually mean the same thing.

Volker


Am 11.02.2014 17:55, schrieb Margie Milam:

Don & All-

 

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion-  from the definition of Proxy Service under the 2013 RAA Spec:

 

1.3 "Proxy Service" is a service through which a Registered Name Holder licenses use of a Registered Name to the P/P Customer in order to provide the P/P Customer use of the domain name, and the Registered Name Holder's contact information is displayed in the Registration Data Service (Whois) or equivalent services rather than the P/P Customer's contact information.

 

All the best,

 

Margie

 

From: Don Blumenthal [mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:48 AM
To: Margie Milam; Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

I get more baffled as we go with this thread. How would the beneficial holder of a domain be in a license arrangement with a p/p provider? I can’t see it under any definition of the term “license” that I have seen. Examples welcome for educational purposes but the final word won’t be up to the WG. We will pull the points made in this thread and use them to frame our questions for GC. 

 

Don

 

From: Margie Milam <Margie.Milam@icann.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Also— the P/P Specification from the 2013 RAA also refers to licensee:

 

1.1   "P/P Customer" means, regardless of the terminology used by the P/P Provider, the licensee, customer, beneficial user, beneficiary, or other recipient of Privacy Services and Proxy Services

 

All the best,

 

Margie

 

 

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Margie Milam
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:24 AM
To: Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Hi Volker & All-

 

I am not aware of a definition of licensing in the 2013 RAA or any of the previous versions.

 

However, please look at it Section  3.4.1.5 from the 2013 RAA that uses the term “licensee” in the context of proxy registration services:

 

3.4.1.5 the name, postal address, e-mail address, and voice telephone number provided by the customer of any privacy service or licensee of any proxy registration service, in each case, offered or made available by Registrar or its Affiliates in connection with each registration. Effective on the date that ICANN fully implements a Proxy Accreditation Program established in accordance with Section 3.14, the obligations under this Section 3.4.1.5 will cease to apply as to any specific category of data (such as postal address) that is expressly required to be retained by another party in accordance with such Proxy Accreditation Program.

 

 

Margie

 

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:16 AM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Hi Margie,

as discussed earlier today, there seems to be disagreement over what the term "licensing" means and if it should apply to privacy or proxy services.

Volker

Am 11.02.2014 17:08, schrieb Margie Milam:

All-

 

I think the language you are looking for is in the body of the 2013 RAA under Section 3.7.7.3 below:

 

3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.

 

 

Margie

 

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of James M. Bladel
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:21 AM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Marika Konings; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

No.  This language does not exist in the 2013 RAA.

 

 

J.

 

 

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 8:06
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

So it’s not in the RAA then is it?

 

Regards

 

Michele

 

 

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting & Colocation, Domains

http://www.blacknight.co/

http://blog.blacknight.com/

http://www.technology.ie

Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072

Locall: 1850 929 929

Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090

Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763

Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty

Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

 

From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in February 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of the RAA.

 

Best regards,

 

Marika

 

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56
To: "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Gema

 

Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?

 

I’m looking at the 2013 RAA’s proxy / privacy specification and I cannot see this.

 

Regards

 

Michele

 

 

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting & Colocation, Domains

http://www.blacknight.co/

http://blog.blacknight.com/

http://www.technology.ie

Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072

Locall: 1850 929 929

Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090

Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763

Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty

Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

 

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM
To: Marika Konings
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines “relay” and in a very confusing way, mixing it with “reveal”.

 

5) Relay Information Requests

See study # 20 for this term’s use in context.

Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names. Allegations of

actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law enforcement officials and

others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service provider to contact the

domain name user. Potential “harms” could include suspected fraud, intellectual property

rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal laws. To support the

relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable and timely means of

communicating with their domain licensees. The ICANN Registrar Accreditation

Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of the domain licensee

upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for resulting harm.

 

So, I insist definitions of “relay”, “reveal” and “publication” are included in the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper or else, referenced to a document that provides its meaning in the context of Proxy-Privacy Services.

 

Thank you again and best regards,

 

 

Gema

 

De: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org]
Enviado el: martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16
Para: Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Asunto: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Dear Gema,

 

I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on the WG wiki (background documents – see https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).

 

Best regards,

 

Marika

 

From: "<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org>
Subject: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

 

Dear Marika,

 

Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading? In footnote 7 of the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper, there is a reference to the “Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to WG Background Documents).”, but I am not able to find that document. Could you please point me to the paper I have to look up?

 

Thank you so much,

 

Gema

 




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Best regards,
 
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Im Oberen Werk 1
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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
 
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu 

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.