On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Bob Bruen <bruen@coldrain.net> wrote:
Hi Volker,
I was merely responding to Stephanie's comments about the difficulties, not advocating a position.
However, as you are aware, I do advocate barring commercial entities from using p/p, because the use has already caused harm and we should fix that. The providers created the problem in the first place, so allowing them to continue to control it simply continues the problem.
The discussion of all this is the point of this group (and other groups).
--bob
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, Volker Greimann wrote:
I agree that it would be possible to bar commercial entities from using p/p services, however I am not sure it is the
sensible thing to do. Certainly, there is abuse, but by creating a blanket prohibition, i fear more damage will be done to
legitimate interests than good is done to illegitimate ones.
In the end it should be up to the provider which categories of clients it accepts.
Volker
Am 20.01.2014 02:08, schrieb Bob Bruen:
Hi Stephanie,
It is entirely possible to decide to bar commercial entities, create a definition of "comercial entities" and
then deal with those which appear to problematical.
The fraudsters probably will not be a set up as a legitimate bussiness, but their sites can be identified as
spam, malware, etc types and thus taking money, therefore a business. I am sure there are other methods to deal
with problem domain names.
In general, exceptions or problems should not derail a process.
--bob
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
I dont want to keep beating a dead horse here....but if there is a resounding
response of "yes indeed, bar commercial entities from using P/P services", then
how are you going to propose that p/p proxy service providers determine who is a
commercial entity, particularly in jurisdictions which have declined to regulate
the provision of goods and services over the Internet? I don't like asking
questions that walk us into corners we cannot get out of. Do the fraudsters we
are worried about actually apply for business numbers and articles of
incorporation in the jurisdictions in which they operate? I operate in a
jurisdiction where this distinction is often extremely difficult to make. THe
determination would depend on the precise use being made of the domain
name....which gets ICANN squarely into content analysis, and which can hardly be
done for new registrations, even if t were within ICANN's remit. I am honestly
not trying to be difficult, but I just have not heard a good answer to this
problem.
Stephanie Perrin
On 2014-01-19, at 4:38 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:
Jin and all
I agree with Jim here (and Don earlier). The important task here is
agreeing on the questions to be asked of the SO/ACs. So we need to get
back to framing the questions - not answering them, however tempting that
may be.
So the question of whether 'commercial entities' should be barred is still
a useful question to ask. The next question would be whether there are
possible distinctions that should be drawn between an entity that can use
the service and one that can't and, if so, where is the line drawn. I agree
with the discussion on how difficult that will be because many entities
that have corporate status also have reasonable grounds for wanting the
protection of such a service (human rights organisations or women's refuges
come to mind). But that is the sort of response we are seeking from
others outside of this group - so let's not prejudge answers. Let's only
frame the questions that will help us come to some sensible answers.
Otherwise, we'll never get to the next steps.
And my apologies for the next meeting. I have a long day ahead on
Wednesday (Sydney time) and taking calls at 2.00am won't help. So Ill read
the transcript and be back in a fortnight (2 weeks for those who do not use
the term)
Holly
On 16/01/2014, at 5:39 AM, Jim Bikoff wrote:
Don and all,
As we suggested earlier, and discussed in the last Group
teleconference, it might be helpful, as a next step, if we reached a
consensus on the groups of questions before sending them out to
SO/ACs and SG/Cs.
This would involve two steps: First, agreeing on the name of each
group; and second, streamlining the questions in each group.
In the first step, we could consider alternative headings (perhaps
REGISTRATION instead of MAINTENANCE).
And in the second step, we could remove duplicative or vague
questions.
This crystallization would make the questions more approachable, and
encourage better responses.
I hope these ideas are helpful.
Best,
Jim
James L. Bikoff
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP
1101 30th Street, NW
Suite 120
Washington, DC 20007
Tel: 202-944-3303
Fax: 202-944-3306
jbikoff@sgbdc.com
From: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal@pir.org>
Date: January 14, 2014 11:09:23 AM EST
To: PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Carlton's closing chat question
Carlton posted an issue that shouldn’t wait a week:
“John came up with 4 groups. Do we have a notion that others
might be extracted? And where do we include/modify questions
to address Stephanie's issue?"
Jim had four groups and an umbrella Main category, which may be
instructive in itself in guiding how we proceed
organizationally. Regardless, the consensus of commenters has
been that his document is a significant improvement over where
we were before, and I suggest that we use it as a baseline.
However, we still have work to do on it. Feel free to suggest
modifications.
Don
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