With additional participants. Kind regards Nathalie From: owner-gnso-secs@icann.org [mailto:owner-gnso-secs@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nathalie Peregrine Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:26 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Cc: gnso-secs@icann.org Subject: [gnso-secs] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 15:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140128-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>jan The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Don Blumenthal - RySG Luc Seufer - RrSG Marie-Laure Lemineur - NPOC Michele Neylon - RrSG Volker Greimann - RrSG Griffin Barnett - IPC Justin Macy - CBUC Kathy Kleiman - RySG Jim Bikoff - IPC Graeme Bunton - RrSG Tatiana Khramstova - RrSG Nic Steinbach - RrSG David Heasley - IPC James Bladel - RrSG Susan Prosser - RrSG Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC David Cake - NCSG Todd Williams - IPC Valeriya Sherman - IPC Alex Deacon - IPC Steve Metalitz - IPC Amr Elsadr - NCUC Tobias Sattler - RrSG Kristina Rosette - IPC Gema Campillos - GAC Carlton Samuels - ALAC Paul McGrady - IPC Darcy Southwell - RrSG Ben Anderson - RrSG Billy Watenpaugh - RrSG Emily Emanual - BC Apologies: Statton Hammock - RySG Holly Raiche - ALAC Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Roy Balleste - NCUC Stephanie Perrin - NCUC Joe Catapano ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Amy Bivins Mike Zupke Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie Peregrine Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 28 January 2014 Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone from Frozen Chicago! Mike Zupke:Greetings, Paul. Bladel:@Paul, just a few hours west of you...it's not so bad today. We are already above zero! Michele Neylon:If you hear anything odd from my end it's because the building is being power washed Michele Neylon:it's like working in a car wash today Michele Neylon:http://instagram.com/p/jt0nhNmJ36/ Nathalie Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined Michele Neylon:in case anyone doesn't believe me :) Nathalie Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined Valeriya Sherman:David Heasley is also on the call Nathalie Peregrine:Nic Steinbach has joined Nathalie Peregrine:thank you Valeriya, noted Nathalie Peregrine:Gema Campillos is also on the call Volker Greimann:I am on Gema Campillos:Hi everybody! I´m back! I understand the letters have already been sent out. GAC members have not received them yet. I´ll brief my colleagues about the WG when the letter arrives. Nathalie Peregrine:Amr Elsadr is also on the call Amr Elsadr:dialling in now. Mary Wong 2:Thanks, Gema, for the note. We will follow up with our colleagues who support the GAC to ensure that the letter (sent to the GAC Chair) is distributed to members. Amr Elsadr:Hi. Just joined the call. Kathy Kleiman:I think we will wind up spending way too much time on definitions if we don't have an initial threshold questions... Nathalie Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the AC room Nathalie Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call Mary Wong 2:@James - would adding "registered" to III. (1) address your point? Bladel:Hi Mary. I'm not sure. We can talk about the "domain name used for" or the "content associated with a domain name" which is probably a website, but could be email (commercial or non-commercial) or an app, or something eelse. Mary Wong 2:@Michele, the SO/AC/SG/C responses may help the WG fine tune its work/questions further. You can also go back to them with additional questions/requests at some point if appropriate. Mary Wong 2:@James, thanks. Perhaps the group can consider adding another bullet point about this under III. (1) then? Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the AC room Carlton Samuels:Hi everybody. My apologies for the late join Graeme Bunton:Akin to a conditional survey Bladel:Maybe doesn't need to be done formally, but should be kept in mind or "flagged" when found. Nathalie Peregrine:David Cake has joinjed the call Marie-laure Lemineur:+1 Michele Amr Elsadr:@Michele: +1. Carlton Samuels:No audio to me on the A/C Michele Neylon:dial in :) Michele Neylon:also Don seems to be coming and going volume wise Carlton Samuels:Was about to try Skype to US TF :-) Mary Wong 2:@Michele, are you on AC audio or phone bridge? The latter tends to be clearer and more stable. Amr Elsadr:@Carlton. That's what I'm using. Working well. Graeme Bunton:Don sounds fine to me using the AC Audio Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, we can dial out to you if you would rather not dial in Kathy Kleiman:Ques 1 for III. Registration: Should the WG create categories of p/p customers - or continue to support the current system in which proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals? Valeriya Sherman:How and when are we planning to use the results of the WG member survey? Michele Neylon:+1 Gema Michele Neylon:on the audio Michele Neylon:not on anything else :) Marika Konings:@Valeriya - the idea would be to include these together with feedback received from SG/C/AC/SOs as input for the WG to consider in relation to each of these charter questions. Mary Wong 2:All, FYI - the date by which we requested that SO/AC/SG/Cs send us their input is Friday 28 Feb. Luc Seufer:I think Carlton ihas dialed in. Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, I have muted your AC mic Carlton Samuels:No trouble. I'm finally in!! Kathy Kleiman:Welcome! Valeriya Sherman:Thanks @Marika and Mary. Mary Wong 2:@Steve, that is correct - the PDP Manual obligates every WG to seek SO/AC input as early as possible in its deliberations. It does not say you have to wait till they all come in before proceeding. Mary Wong 2:But one advantage of early input is of course that it can be helpful to the WG as it begins its work. Marika Konings:Identifying these sub-questions may also help the WG to identify whether there are any areas that require additional data or research. Marika Konings:as well as planning how to tackle its work (which should form the basis for the work plan) Graeme Bunton:sounds better Bladel:Much better! Susan Prosser:much better Marie-laure Lemineur:so have we reached an agreement re> Kathy' s question? Gema Campillos:I hear to you better, Don. Michele Neylon:I'll try to come back Nathalie Peregrine:the line has been muted Gema Campillos:hear you, sorry Carlton Samuels:@Steve: +1 We move it along and add input from SOs/ACs as we go along. Early input - any input would be Very Helpful and will always help the conversations towards consensus Mary Wong 2:@Marie-Laure, we will add a footnote/reference to capture Kathy's, James' and Steve's input on that and have a revised document by the next meeting. Kathy Kleiman:Great, tx Steve! Kathy Kleiman:Right, agree with Steve. Kathy Kleiman:Perfect. Marie-laure Lemineur:@steve I agree.. Kathy Kleiman:Steve: can you edit the text per the change - and we can add it as a formal ques in Section III? Carlton Samuels:@Steve: But before we say change, let's ask the questions that probe any disability or deleterious impact associated with status quo Bladel:How about this: What is the threshold for determining that a "class" or "category" of user/user should be denied from accessing these services? Kathy Kleiman:James: but is there a threshold? Gema Campillos:I have some comments, but are not related to the categories issue. May I ask them now or bring them on the mailing list? Amr Elsadr:Wether categorzation of domain name registrants should be required of accredited service providers is the charter question, isn't it? Mary Wong 2:@Gema, do raise your hand so Don can see it and you can speak. Don Blumenthal:I see Gemas Don Blumenthal:'s question. Go ahead with what you want to raise Luc Seufer:I still have faith in ENUM! Kathy Kleiman:I think we have agreemend on the threshold question: and I would be happy to accept Steve's edits... Valeriya Sherman:It would make sense for us to review and incorporate input from the surveys of the WG members before we get input from SOs/ACs on Feb 28. Might help us clarify issues/definitions, identify sub-questions and move towards consensus. Thoughts? Mary Wong 2:@Amr, that was the point Steve made initially. As mentioned we will capture these discussions in the document by way of a footnote - it may be confusing to add so many suggestions on the same point as additional questions or bullet points. Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, the proposal is for a threshold question - a Ques. #1 in III. Registration. steve metalitz:@Kathy, how about something like this: Currently, proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals. Should there be any change to this aspect of the current system in the new accreditation standards? Kathy Kleiman:There seems to be convergence on the language. Graeme Bunton:Good points James Carlton Samuels:@James: +1. I agree we start at looking at the issue and impacts, decide which ones are bad for business, set a standard for accessing and suggest a pathway to access the services Amr Elsadr:@Mary: My understanding is as per Kathy's comment - changing the txt of the threshold question. Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: good wording! Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, I had thought Don had agreed to a footnote some time ago. However, if Steve and James and you agree on wording we can add this as a bullet point. indicating that it is a threshold question for III(1). Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: I think we can add it as a threshold question in III... Mary Wong 2:Or we can add it at the top as a threshold question. Mary Wong 2:Yes Kathy! :) Kathy Kleiman:Second option - tx :-) Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1 (to Mary's second option). It seems there is no objection as per Steve's last suggestion. Amr Elsadr:@Steve: Correct me if I'm mistaken please. :) Amr Elsadr:Are there laws regarding p/p services, or are they more focused on contact data being published on the actual website's content? Luc Seufer:@Amr not as far as know. Here, laws on hosting uses deal with hosting requirements. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika - there seems to be some ambiguity of use of "reveal" and "publish" - should I point that out on the list? Amr Elsadr:@Luc: Thanks. That's my understanding as well, but I am not an expert. :) Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, that may be something for the Reveal sub group to discuss. Mary Wong 2:(if that is how the WG decides to proceed; hence it would be helpful to decide the approach sooner rathr than later). Graeme Bunton:INFINITY! Kathy Kleiman:Wow Alice in Wonderland! Mary Wong 2:And we have multiple screens too when supporting WG calls :) Luc Seufer:Inception? IPCand NC agreeing, I knew I was dreaming Luc Seufer:;-) Amr Elsadr::) Marika Konings:@Kathy - as Mary said, developing definitions is probably something that will occur as part of the WG deliberations on these questions. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika and Mary, I think there is a place in the new bullets where the word "publish" is used in lieu of "reveal." big difference in implications so it is something i will share. Kathy Kleiman:... in upcoming comments. Paul McGrady:While it took some time, I thought today's discussion was extremely helpful. Thank you all. Volker Greimann:yes, provided it is not at 7:30 in the morning Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the AC room Marie-laure Lemineur:I support the idea of a F2F meeting in Singapore Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1 Phil Marano:Very sorry to be so late, I had a meeting run long. Phil Marano:I'll listen to the recording when it is published. Mary Wong 2:Assuming the main schedule doesn't change much, Thursday morning is usually good. Mary Wong 2:That is what we used for the first meeting in Buenos Aires. Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: There is indeed a difference even in the basic grammar between 'publish' and 'reveal'. In this context this is even of greater importance to respect the difference in meaning. Tobias Sattler:@Volker: +1 Amr Elsadr:@Mary: There were some WG meetings at 07:30 in BA. They didn't attract as much participation as we would hope. Mary Wong 2:@Amr, same thing for evenings :( Bladel:Wait...isn't PIR a sponsor? Amr Elsadr:I know scheduling is not easy, but WG f2f is important. Tobias Sattler:Thank you Amr Elsadr:Thanks Don. Bye. Graeme Bunton:Thanks Don Justin Macy:Thanks! Kathy Kleiman:@ Carlton: I'll put out more details soon. Marie-laure Lemineur:tx Don and all Luc Seufer:Thanks, bye David Cake:thanks all Carlton Samuels:Thanks Don. Thanks all. Stimulating discussion Susan Prosser:thanks Don.