Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 25 November 2014 at 15:00 UTC. at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20141125-en.mp3 On page: <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Steve Metalitz - IPC Graeme Bunton – RrSG Frank Michlick – Individual Chris Pelling – RrSG Justin Macy - BC Susan Kawaguchi – BC Kristina Rosette – IPC Val Sherman – IPC Volker Greimann - RrSG Theo Geurts - RrSG Stephanie Perrin - NCSG James Bladel – RrSG Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG Griffin Barnett – IPC Darcy Southwell – RrSG Alex Deacon – IPC Kathy Kleiman – NCSG Jim Bikoff – IPC Paul McGrady – IPC Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP Phil Corwin – BC Sarah Wyld – RrSG Todd Williams – IPC John Horton – BC Camille Stewart – NO SOI, not mentioned as a member Susan Prosser – RrSG Keith Kupferschmid – IPC Vicky Scheckler – IPC Kiran Malancharuvil – IPC David Heasley - IPC Apologies : Dick Leaning – no soi Holly Raiche – ALAC Christian Dawson-ISPCP Carlton Samuels – ALAC Michele Neylon – RrSG Don Blumenthal – RySG Lindsay Hamilton-Reid- RrSG ICANN staff: Mary Wong Amy Bivins Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 25 November 2014: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI call on the 25th November 2014 Chris Pelling:Afternoon all Theo Geurts:good afternoon all Graeme Bunton:good morning all Bladel:Morning. John Horton:Good morning, all. Graeme Bunton:Someone needs to mute their mic Alex Deacon:Morning everyone... Kathy:Hi All! I got through the phone queue quickly today... Graeme Bunton:John, welcome back. John Horton:Thanks! :) Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all Keith Kupferschmid:Sorry for being late Nathalie Peregrine:Keith, your name has been noted for attendance. Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Corwin has joined Nathalie Peregrine:Vicky Schlecker and Volker Greiman have joined Nathalie Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has also joined Nathalie Peregrine:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined Nathalie Peregrine:Paul McGrady has joined the AC room Nathalie Peregrine:Stephanie Perrin has joined the call John Horton:Steve, I'd support Kiran's suggestion that we take a look at whether majority/minority remains the accurate/best description. Chris Pelling:Ok, at what point does a US lawyer have the right to overlook this ? Chris Pelling:this is a worldwide service Kiran Malancharuvil:Legal review of the question Chris Pelling:Can we keep the dog noises to a minimum please ? Mary Wong:@Kiran, do you have a suggestion as to how that can be done? I don't think we can review multiple jurisdictions, for instance. Chris Pelling:If this is placed on US lawyers only, I for one would then suggest this whole WG is a waste of time Kiran Malancharuvil:@Mary - surely ICANN has some precedent for doing this, for example what was done with IOC/RCRC Nathalie Peregrine:Disturbance is coming from an AC mic, so please click on the white arrow to the right if the mic icon and click mute Kiran Malancharuvil:Who suggested limiting to US lawyers Chris? Kiran Malancharuvil:There are mutliple jurisdictional reviews done all the time Chris Pelling:Kiran - predominently its always been US lawyers, so, we would then need to have a discussion about what lawyers to use Mary Wong:@Kiran and FYI for the WG, ICANN Legal did a sampling of several jurisdictions to come up with a summary of how each of these sampled jurisdictions implemented certain international legal treaty protections. It was a descriptive summary, not a proposal/recommendation on the way forward. Chris Pelling:personall I dont think it will help at this time Kiran Malancharuvil:Okay, so suggest that instead of throwing around assumptions. Chris Pelling:personally ) Graeme Bunton:Commercial use of resolved resources Kiran Malancharuvil:Frankly enough questions were raised in the sampling of international jurisdictions in FWD Strategies White Paper that I would find a deeper, independent legal review useful. Graeme Bunton:Agreed, James Bladel:Loud & clear Kathy:I agree with John - and think the current description is pretty accurate Chris Pelling:I must admit I am agreeign with John too Kathy:(regarding John's recommendation to go forward with writing up our description) Chris Pelling:^^ Same Frank Michlick:It's up to the user to decide whom to do business with. Whois privacy does not prevent contacting the owner. Graeme Bunton:Does that not assume that the entity that owns the domain is also the entity operating the website? Chris Pelling:Very crackily here Mary Frank Michlick:very very crackily and loud Chris Pelling:could be my end, anyone else ? Graeme Bunton:yep, your audio is poor Mary Philip Corwin:Mary audio breaking up Chris Pelling:thats better Val Sherman:clear now Bladel:clear now Frank Michlick:it's better if you're not too close / loud Chris Pelling:Thanks Mary Mary Wong:Thanks, everybody - sorry about that. Susan Kawaguchi:@ James but if you walk up to a storefront and choose to do business in a "real" store you would see a business license and interact with a person and then you may pay with a credit card but you still want to know who the store owner is Graeme Bunton:Susan - that's the person operating the store, not the owner of the building. We're talking about the building the store is in. Frank Michlick:Michele cannot join today. Bladel:Sure, but do we know who their landlord is? That's the domain equivalent, IMO. Kiran Malancharuvil:@Graeme - the owner of the building has to be posted as well Volker Greimann:need to drop early today, apologies Kathy:@Susan, not at the farmer's market, not at the flea markets worldwide, not at the small stalls worldwide Bladel:Tht would be down at the county record's office or something. Susan Kawaguchi:the domain name registration equates to the business license Susan Kawaguchi:not in California it is on the wall of the business Bladel:No, the domain name is more closely the deed to the real estate. Graeme Bunton:That's an interesting fundamental difference in approach Susan Kawaguchi:not at all in my opinion James Bladel:"Registrant is who you are giving your money to." eBay and Amazon Marketplace would disagree with that statement. Stephanie Perrin:Can someone please point me to the agreed definition of a domain name? Susan Kawaguchi:No when I shop at Costco I may use a third party to faciliate payment but I am doing business with Costco Susan Kawaguchi:If Costco doesn't deliver on the product I purchase I may go to the third party payer to resolve an issue but I paid Costco Susan Kawaguchi:I do not see any difference between shopping online at Costco.com and costco at Almaden plaza Kiran Malancharuvil:+1 Susan, there is no difference Mary Wong:@Stephanie, we do not have one but here is what the ICANN Glossary says about the DNS generally: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/glossary-2014-02-03-en#d Stephanie Perrin:Just as we cannot make the rules for domain name registration work as if all customers were Facebook, we cannot foray into the area of commercial regulation as if all businesses or potential businesses using name and number resources were Costco. Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Mary. Stephanie Perrin:Not very helpful in terms of doing a legal analysis, is it? and defining a domain name is not within our mandate. Kristina Rosette:Is there a reason we wouldn't use "Registered Name", which is a defined term under the RAA. Mary Wong:@Kristina, that may be in line also with what Eric Brunner Williams wrote to the list a while ago about the technical parts behind/of a domain name. Mary Wong:Apologies for the duplicate D-4 (error in migrating across versions :)) Graeme Bunton:I'm enjoying your slow slide into Barry White style baritones, Steve. Mary Wong:Per Kristina's suggestion - here is the definition of Registered Name from the 2013 RAA: ""Registered Name" refers to a domain name within the domain of a gTLD, whether consisting of two (2) or more (e.g., john.smith.name) levels, about which a gTLD Registry Operator (or an Affiliate or subcontractor thereof engaged in providing Registry Services) maintains data in a Registry Database, arranges for such maintenance, or derives revenue from such maintenance. A name in a Registry Database may be a Registered Name even though it does not appear in a zone file (e.g., a registered but inactive name)." Kathy:Interesting, "standardized" can be across all p/p providers, or within a p/p provider. So some may have all-online processing; while others may not Graeme Bunton:Minimum standards, shouldn't preclude the option to capture more Kathy:I worry about standardization... Stephanie Perrin:I think we should then change the wording to "standardized set of elements" rather than a standardized form. Alex Deacon:Minimum standards should be the focus. Kiran Malancharuvil:minimum standards are great, but I would like whatever is easiest for individuals Kiran Malancharuvil:contactability is key Kathy:@Stephanie: agree. Mary: can the change be reflectedin the notes? Chris Pelling:Thanks all, and thanks Steve Bladel:Wishing all the non-US folks a quiet inbox this week! Kathy:Not standardarized form, but standardized elements? John Horton:Cheers. Thanks. Mary Wong:@Kathy, done! Stephanie Perrin:Thanks everyone. Kathy:Tx Mary, Tx Steve! Val Sherman:Thanks Steve, and everyone!