Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 15:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140128-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>jan The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Don Blumenthal - RySG Luc Seufer - RrSG Marie-Laure Lemineur - NPOC Michele Neylon - RrSG Volker Greimann - RrSG Griffin Barnett - IPC Justin Macy - CBUC Kathy Kleiman - RySG Jim Bikoff - IPC Graeme Bunton - RrSG Tatiana Khramstova - RrSG Nic Steinbach - RrSG David Heasley - IPC James Bladel - RrSG Susan Prosser - RrSG Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC David Cake - NCSG Todd Williams - IPC Valeriya Sherman - IPC Alex Deacon - IPC Steve Metalitz - IPC Amr Elsadr - NCUC Tobias Sattler - RrSG Kristina Rosette - IPC Gema Campillos - GAC Carlton Samuels - ALAC Paul McGrady - IPC Darcy Southwell - RrSG Ben Anderson - RrSG Billy Watenpaugh - RrSG Emily Emanual - BC Apologies: Statton Hammock - RySG Holly Raiche - ALAC Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Roy Balleste - NCUC Stephanie Perrin - NCUC Joe Catapano ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie Peregrine Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 28 January 2014 Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone from Frozen Chicago! Mike Zupke:Greetings, Paul. Bladel:@Paul, just a few hours west of you...it's not so bad today. We are already above zero! Michele Neylon:If you hear anything odd from my end it's because the building is being power washed Michele Neylon:it's like working in a car wash today Michele Neylon:http://instagram.com/p/jt0nhNmJ36/ Nathalie Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined Michele Neylon:in case anyone doesn't believe me :) Nathalie Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined Valeriya Sherman:David Heasley is also on the call Nathalie Peregrine:Nic Steinbach has joined Nathalie Peregrine:thank you Valeriya, noted Nathalie Peregrine:Gema Campillos is also on the call Volker Greimann:I am on Gema Campillos:Hi everybody! I´m back! I understand the letters have already been sent out. GAC members have not received them yet. I´ll brief my colleagues about the WG when the letter arrives. Nathalie Peregrine:Amr Elsadr is also on the call Amr Elsadr:dialling in now. Mary Wong 2:Thanks, Gema, for the note. We will follow up with our colleagues who support the GAC to ensure that the letter (sent to the GAC Chair) is distributed to members. Amr Elsadr:Hi. Just joined the call. Kathy Kleiman:I think we will wind up spending way too much time on definitions if we don't have an initial threshold questions... Nathalie Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the AC room Nathalie Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call Mary Wong 2:@James - would adding "registered" to III. (1) address your point? Bladel:Hi Mary. I'm not sure. We can talk about the "domain name used for" or the "content associated with a domain name" which is probably a website, but could be email (commercial or non-commercial) or an app, or something eelse. Mary Wong 2:@Michele, the SO/AC/SG/C responses may help the WG fine tune its work/questions further. You can also go back to them with additional questions/requests at some point if appropriate. Mary Wong 2:@James, thanks. Perhaps the group can consider adding another bullet point about this under III. (1) then? Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the AC room Carlton Samuels:Hi everybody. My apologies for the late join Graeme Bunton:Akin to a conditional survey Bladel:Maybe doesn't need to be done formally, but should be kept in mind or "flagged" when found. Nathalie Peregrine:David Cake has joinjed the call Marie-laure Lemineur:+1 Michele Amr Elsadr:@Michele: +1. Carlton Samuels:No audio to me on the A/C Michele Neylon:dial in :) Michele Neylon:also Don seems to be coming and going volume wise Carlton Samuels:Was about to try Skype to US TF :-) Mary Wong 2:@Michele, are you on AC audio or phone bridge? The latter tends to be clearer and more stable. Amr Elsadr:@Carlton. That's what I'm using. Working well. Graeme Bunton:Don sounds fine to me using the AC Audio Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, we can dial out to you if you would rather not dial in Kathy Kleiman:Ques 1 for III. Registration: Should the WG create categories of p/p customers - or continue to support the current system in which proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals? Valeriya Sherman:How and when are we planning to use the results of the WG member survey? Michele Neylon:+1 Gema Michele Neylon:on the audio Michele Neylon:not on anything else :) Marika Konings:@Valeriya - the idea would be to include these together with feedback received from SG/C/AC/SOs as input for the WG to consider in relation to each of these charter questions. Mary Wong 2:All, FYI - the date by which we requested that SO/AC/SG/Cs send us their input is Friday 28 Feb. Luc Seufer:I think Carlton ihas dialed in. Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, I have muted your AC mic Carlton Samuels:No trouble. I'm finally in!! Kathy Kleiman:Welcome! Valeriya Sherman:Thanks @Marika and Mary. Mary Wong 2:@Steve, that is correct - the PDP Manual obligates every WG to seek SO/AC input as early as possible in its deliberations. It does not say you have to wait till they all come in before proceeding. Mary Wong 2:But one advantage of early input is of course that it can be helpful to the WG as it begins its work. Marika Konings:Identifying these sub-questions may also help the WG to identify whether there are any areas that require additional data or research. Marika Konings:as well as planning how to tackle its work (which should form the basis for the work plan) Graeme Bunton:sounds better Bladel:Much better! Susan Prosser:much better Marie-laure Lemineur:so have we reached an agreement re> Kathy' s question? Gema Campillos:I hear to you better, Don. Michele Neylon:I'll try to come back Nathalie Peregrine:the line has been muted Gema Campillos:hear you, sorry Carlton Samuels:@Steve: +1 We move it along and add input from SOs/ACs as we go along. Early input - any input would be Very Helpful and will always help the conversations towards consensus Mary Wong 2:@Marie-Laure, we will add a footnote/reference to capture Kathy's, James' and Steve's input on that and have a revised document by the next meeting. Kathy Kleiman:Great, tx Steve! Kathy Kleiman:Right, agree with Steve. Kathy Kleiman:Perfect. Marie-laure Lemineur:@steve I agree.. Kathy Kleiman:Steve: can you edit the text per the change - and we can add it as a formal ques in Section III? Carlton Samuels:@Steve: But before we say change, let's ask the questions that probe any disability or deleterious impact associated with status quo Bladel:How about this: What is the threshold for determining that a "class" or "category" of user/user should be denied from accessing these services? Kathy Kleiman:James: but is there a threshold? Gema Campillos:I have some comments, but are not related to the categories issue. May I ask them now or bring them on the mailing list? Amr Elsadr:Wether categorzation of domain name registrants should be required of accredited service providers is the charter question, isn't it? Mary Wong 2:@Gema, do raise your hand so Don can see it and you can speak. Don Blumenthal:I see Gemas Don Blumenthal:'s question. Go ahead with what you want to raise Luc Seufer:I still have faith in ENUM! Kathy Kleiman:I think we have agreemend on the threshold question: and I would be happy to accept Steve's edits... Valeriya Sherman:It would make sense for us to review and incorporate input from the surveys of the WG members before we get input from SOs/ACs on Feb 28. Might help us clarify issues/definitions, identify sub-questions and move towards consensus. Thoughts? Mary Wong 2:@Amr, that was the point Steve made initially. As mentioned we will capture these discussions in the document by way of a footnote - it may be confusing to add so many suggestions on the same point as additional questions or bullet points. Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, the proposal is for a threshold question - a Ques. #1 in III. Registration. steve metalitz:@Kathy, how about something like this: Currently, proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals. Should there be any change to this aspect of the current system in the new accreditation standards? Kathy Kleiman:There seems to be convergence on the language. Graeme Bunton:Good points James Carlton Samuels:@James: +1. I agree we start at looking at the issue and impacts, decide which ones are bad for business, set a standard for accessing and suggest a pathway to access the services Amr Elsadr:@Mary: My understanding is as per Kathy's comment - changing the txt of the threshold question. Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: good wording! Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, I had thought Don had agreed to a footnote some time ago. However, if Steve and James and you agree on wording we can add this as a bullet point. indicating that it is a threshold question for III(1). Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: I think we can add it as a threshold question in III... Mary Wong 2:Or we can add it at the top as a threshold question. Mary Wong 2:Yes Kathy! :) Kathy Kleiman:Second option - tx :-) Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1 (to Mary's second option). It seems there is no objection as per Steve's last suggestion. Amr Elsadr:@Steve: Correct me if I'm mistaken please. :) Amr Elsadr:Are there laws regarding p/p services, or are they more focused on contact data being published on the actual website's content? Luc Seufer:@Amr not as far as know. Here, laws on hosting uses deal with hosting requirements. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika - there seems to be some ambiguity of use of "reveal" and "publish" - should I point that out on the list? Amr Elsadr:@Luc: Thanks. That's my understanding as well, but I am not an expert. :) Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, that may be something for the Reveal sub group to discuss. Mary Wong 2:(if that is how the WG decides to proceed; hence it would be helpful to decide the approach sooner rathr than later). Graeme Bunton:INFINITY! Kathy Kleiman:Wow Alice in Wonderland! Mary Wong 2:And we have multiple screens too when supporting WG calls :) Luc Seufer:Inception? IPCand NC agreeing, I knew I was dreaming Luc Seufer:;-) Amr Elsadr::) Marika Konings:@Kathy - as Mary said, developing definitions is probably something that will occur as part of the WG deliberations on these questions. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika and Mary, I think there is a place in the new bullets where the word "publish" is used in lieu of "reveal." big difference in implications so it is something i will share. Kathy Kleiman:... in upcoming comments. Paul McGrady:While it took some time, I thought today's discussion was extremely helpful. Thank you all. Volker Greimann:yes, provided it is not at 7:30 in the morning Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the AC room Marie-laure Lemineur:I support the idea of a F2F meeting in Singapore Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1 Phil Marano:Very sorry to be so late, I had a meeting run long. Phil Marano:I'll listen to the recording when it is published. Mary Wong 2:Assuming the main schedule doesn't change much, Thursday morning is usually good. Mary Wong 2:That is what we used for the first meeting in Buenos Aires. Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: There is indeed a difference even in the basic grammar between 'publish' and 'reveal'. In this context this is even of greater importance to respect the difference in meaning. Tobias Sattler:@Volker: +1 Amr Elsadr:@Mary: There were some WG meetings at 07:30 in BA. They didn't attract as much participation as we would hope. Mary Wong 2:@Amr, same thing for evenings :( Bladel:Wait...isn't PIR a sponsor? Amr Elsadr:I know scheduling is not easy, but WG f2f is important. Tobias Sattler:Thank you Amr Elsadr:Thanks Don. Bye. Graeme Bunton:Thanks Don Justin Macy:Thanks! Kathy Kleiman:@ Carlton: I'll put out more details soon. Marie-laure Lemineur:tx Don and all Luc Seufer:Thanks, bye David Cake:thanks all Carlton Samuels:Thanks Don. Thanks all. Stimulating discussion Susan Prosser:thanks Don.