Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 25 August 2015 at 14:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-25aug15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03Zqpsu8-2FlAFxfTjFrQF-2BDS3NK-2FDeGB5H1p-2BPUcbJuYloT5WtA-3D-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzlVFwaWKfkG8hBrOPQ-2FxfM8VTLsVfB50UJRLIceXIVz7fGGjWUeH7fM0aZVVLCwIkFA-2BO8lD7Kui-2B9KnJe0DiEHPitZkspwSNGjVR89AXldZW0yHqJzVlP-2FuLX8xbyKJRrT8gHBMRZGi7pspV5fCPJ0L-2Fy3Oidcy186Kn7F38BWsErhlfMeTPmhSvO0y7kMrSCm5-2BLpiWe-2Fg-2BOiPvXwywC-2F0hQn87YTlMUJZ3ANUOhF3FEIn-2FNISKHglxLXWKa51C8-2BxWOIC2wrB4wPb68oNbjzbS2YGJzKCrUJBRVwDDCLc> On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Graeme Bunton ­ RrSG Val Sherman ­ IPC Kathy Kleiman ­ NCSG Stephanie Perrin ­ NCSG Terri Stumme ­ BC Todd Williams ­ IPC Sara Bockey ­ RrSG Roger Carney - RrSG Frank Michlick ­ Individual Steve Metalitz – IPC Volker Greimann - RrSG Sarah Wyld – RrSG Darcy Southwell – RrSG James Bladel ­ RrSG David Hughes - IPC Phil Corwin – BC James Gannon ­ NCUC Holly Raiche ­ ALAC Paul McGrady ­ IPC Dick Leaning, Individul Susan Prosser RrSG Susan Kawaguchi – BC Vicky Scheckler IPC Alex Deacon - IPC Luc Seufer RrSG David Cake- NCSG Carlton Samuels – ALAC Griffin Barnett- IPC Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP Rudi Vansnick – NPOC Lindsay Hamilton-Reid ­ RrSG Apologies : Don Blumenthal - RySG Michele Neylon - RrSG ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Amy Bivins Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 25 August 2015 Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI WG call on the 25th August 2015 Holly Raiche:So how was the tea? Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Haven't tried it yet, still too hot James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Hi All, good afternoon from rainy Ireland Stephanie Perrin:Should we all buy new raincoats before Dublin, James? Sounds wet.... Holly Raiche:Does it ever not rain in Ireland! James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes please bring waterproof clothing in October James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Haha basicaally no =) Alex Deacon:morning all. Dick Leaning:noted :-) James Bladel:Sorry, but I cannot hear Alex. James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Very quiet Holly Raiche:Sounds almost under water Nathalie Peregrine:Alex Deacon's comments might not be captrued on the recordings, he is too faint Nathalie Peregrine:*captured Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Subteam site: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54691534 James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes I think that the important thing here is the differentiation between a request and a legal requirement (Eg. Nat Sec Letter, Gag order) steve metalitz:Note that the draft recommendations Val is describing appear in the summary section of the document beginning on page 11 Alex Deacon:summary is that I plan to send a draft set of recommendations and proposed updates to the report for Question 1 for review this week. Mary Wong:Thanks, Steve - apologies, I should have noted that for everyone! Stephanie Perrin:lost sound for quite a while there Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Just you Stephanie, i think. James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:And Privacy law may also apply in some jusrisdictions James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Alex I think your mic is open Luc Seufer:I am hearing an echo and a washing machine Mary Wong:Think it's gone now, not sure who or what it was Alex Deacon:should be closed now. James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Perfect thanks! James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:I have discovered swiping right on a macbook trackpad now goes back to the last page loaded oops! Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Can we make sure that lands on Sub team 3s plate Mary? Mary Wong:Got it James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes steve metalitz:For example our recommendations 6-8 deal with disclosure of p/p service provider policies. The tentative recommendations from the subgroup fon qs. 2 and 3 support these. steve metalitz:subgroup on 2 and 3 Dick Leaning:James is correct- same type of thing in the UK James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes essentially we shouldnt get invoved in national law issues. James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Just point them to lookat their own jurisdictions steve metalitz:@Stephanie can you give a specific example of a case where providers would be required by law to disclose to customer that there had been a request from law enforcement? Holly Raiche:I think what we are doing is have aa baseline set of rules - providers can have terms of service aove that Holly Raiche:'above' Stephanie Perrin:yes, needs to be applicable law...includes international James Bladel:No objection to Paul's change. I thin kthat mirrors language in the RAA. Holly Raiche:applicable is fine Luc Seufer:I am fine with applicable it's more comprehensive Paul McGrady:Thanks! James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Works for me James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Understood , I would oike to see providers enabled to make a call on some way of blanking out details when they provider determines its a genuine user but still wants to terminate. Luc Seufer:a sentence with a "reasonnable" in bold letter comes to mind Mary Wong:@Phil, the WG's prelim rec #8 says providers must disclose in ToS "specific grounds upon which a customer’s details may be Disclosed or Published or service suspended or terminated" Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: in response to the question to Stephanie above, there are privacy laws that require consent of the customer/patron/client before certain information is disclosed to law enforcement (especially where LE is operating without a court order). In those cases, the customer would be notified (by law) James Bladel:Sorry.... steve metalitz:@Kathy, thanks, can you provide a citation? James Bladel:Yield to the queue James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:https://dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1467&ad=1#5. James Bladel:Only if your P/P provider violated their accreditation agreement. Stephanie Perrin:How does one prove that they violated it? steve metalitz:WG Rec. 8 also requires provider to spell out whether customer is notified of disclosure request. Stephanie Perrin:I think that just as there are allegations that bogus proxy service providers exist to hide crooks, bogus PP providers may crop up to entrap Val Sherman:Yes Val Sherman:sorry - -that was responding to Graeme Stephanie Perrin:This is why we need some kind of robust appeal mechanism, and not rely on contract law in each jurisdiction as discussed in the earlier question Holly Raiche:I hink we have to be careful to say LEA in the provider's jurisdiction Volker A. Greimann:Indeed, but there is no guarantee that the malware /spam/etc is distributed by the domain owner Volker A. Greimann:in most cases, it is likely a hacked wordpress Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: agree these are difficult questions without easy answers (non-LE/non-IP) -- but neither are they "implementation details" for ICANN staff. So another group would need to develop this through the PDP process... Stephanie Perrin:An LEA has to provide lawful authority to prevent disclosure to the individual in many jurisdictions. Regrettably, it is not always the case that the offiicer making the request is necessarily doing so according to the letter of the law. This is why it is important to spell out best practices so that providers will at least be aware of what they should be requestioning in terms of authority, according to applocable law. Obviousl y Stephanie Perrin:this does not apply so much to the large providers. Stephanie Perrin:That was requesting, of course, sorry James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes just need to keep tying everyhting together as we work along through the subteams Mary Wong:Sub Team 2 Mary Wong:On SEction 1.3.3 (online financial transactions) James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:thanks all Paul McGrady:great call! Luc Seufer:Merci Mary Wong:Thanks Sub Team 1 and everyone! Val Sherman:Thanks all James Bladel:Thanks