Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 05 August 2014 at 14:00 UTC at: <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140805-en.mp3> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140805-en.mp3 On page: <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Steve Metalitz - IPC Justin Macy – BC Sarah Wyld - RrSG Chris Pelling – RrSG Darcy Southwell - RrSG Graeme Bunton – RrSG Val Sherman – IPC Griffin Barnett – IPC Susan Kawaguchi – BC Kathy Kleiman – NCUC Todd Williams – IPC Michele Neylon – RrSG Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG Frank Michlick – Individual Luc Seufer- RrSG Volker Greimann-RrSG Don Blumenthal – RySG Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP Libby Baney-BC David Hughes-IPC Holly Raiche – ALAC Kristina Rosette – IPC David Heasley-IPC Dan Burke-Individual Christian Dawson-ISPCP Jim Bikoff-IPC Sean McInerney-SOI Apologies: Stephanie Perrin – NCSG Alex Deacon – IPC Paul McGrady – IPC Carlton Samuels – ALAC Roy Balleste – NCUC ICANN staff: Mary Wong Marika Konings Amy Bivins Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 05 August 2014: Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting on 05 August 2014 Chris Pelling:afternoon all :) Luc Seufer:Hi Chris Graeme Bunton:Good morning all Christian Dawson:Good mornig Michele Neylon:wow Christian Dawson::) Chris Pelling:@Don, please do not take this as rudeness, but can you turn your MIC down ? Terri Agnew:Frank Michlick and Volker Greimann has joined Holly Raiche:fine by me Volker Greimann:Apologies, I am delayed on another call, will join this one in a few minutes Terri Agnew:Osvaldo Novoa has joined Terri Agnew:Thank you for the information Volker Chris Pelling:@Luc 'ello Darcy Southwell:My audio isn't working ... Darcy Southwell:I'll come back Terri Agnew:David Hughes has joined audio Terri Agnew:Kristina Rosette has joined Kristina Rosette:Apologies for being late Luc Seufer:Sorry guys, but could we take a step back and address the root issue that mail servers can be silent and there is no obligation for a registrant to have his email address setup in a way it will send bounce/error messages? Luc Seufer:exactly, you don't necessarily got a bounce back with "regular "registration Mary Wong:@Luc I believe the current recommendation is to notify only when provider knows of actual failure (ie something similar to the "knowingly" standard in the RAA, albeit for a different situation) Graeme Bunton:This is where I think we're a bit stuck, thanks Michele Graeme Bunton:We're also leaving it more open than email. Could be form, captcha etc Mary Wong:@Graeme, that's the current state of discussion, yes Luc Seufer:@Mary thanks that's what the recommendation is saying but not what I am hearing on the call Chris Pelling:@Steve - NOT all servers comply with RFC on bounce's Chris Pelling:for example RFC3463 steve metalitz:@Darcy it is not an either/or. Investigate AND notify requester. Chris Pelling:Sorry but are we missing the underlying server HAS to provide the bounce back in the first palce Chris Pelling:*place Mary Wong:@Darcy, there's currently a prelim conclusion for Charter question B-2 that concerns provider obligation to verify for accuracy Darcy Southwell:Thanks, Mary. Graeme Bunton:thanks Steve. Kathy:What's the minimum baseline? What are the choices for p/p providers? Libby Baney:Trying to define the world of possible "abuse case" messages strikes me as cumbersome and open to inconsistent interpretation Kathy:Quick note: the question is phrased: What, if any, are the baseline minimum standardized relay process... be adopted by p/p providers.. Holly Raiche:@Kathy - I think that is the baselline Kathy:@Holly, and I think your summary was a good one! Kathy:yes Luc Seufer:ICANN policy email as an example Luc Seufer:the verification emails sent under 2013 RAA Luc Seufer:etc. Susan Kawaguchi:There is many types of emails that should be relayed. I do not understand why a proxy registration should be treated any different than a "regular" registration Luc Seufer:I totally agree with you Susan Kathy:@Susan: we've had long conversations regarding abuse, definitions of abuse, and the types of abuse messages that must be forwarded. Kathy:(Relayed really) Kathy:So now the idea of forwarding everything... interesting implications Susan Kawaguchi:Proxy does not equal spam filters Kathy:@Steve, shouldn't there be a choice? Luc Seufer:@Kathy forwarding doesn't prevent you from applying an anti-spam filter Susan Kawaguchi:as a domain name registrant I have a responsibility to have a functioing email address Luc Seufer:just like for "regular" registration Susan Kawaguchi:I agree Luc Graeme Bunton:digging into some notes, for a sec Mary Wong:@Luc, that is correct - even for a "forward all" obligation, providers should be able to filter or apply "commercially reasonable Mary Wong:safeguards Luc Seufer:Mary I am not speaking of the P/P provider, the RNH/user can use the filter that they chose to Mary Wong:Ah, ok, thx Luc Seufer:but this FW obligation should be on a best efforts basis Luc Seufer:there is no guarantee those emails will be read by the user steve metalitz:@Kathy or others: Could someone propose a list of the categories of notices that must be forwarded? Mary Wong:@Kathy @Susan would the "commercially reasonable" language cover this situation? Chris Pelling:We do - as its a three factor auth to get an email to the registrant/tech or nilling contact Kathy:@Mary: I don't think so -- because "commercially reasonable" forarding of "all emails" (which I think is what you are suggesting) is far different that "allegations of illegal activities" which is what the question asks us Mary Wong:@Kathy, yes, this is where E-1 elides into E-2 steve metalitz:@Chris so we now have one provider vote for the additive approach. Others? Kathy:@Mary: so the standard would be "commercially reasonable" standard for forwarding allegations of illegal activities...? Sounds OK if that's the case. Susan Kawaguchi:@ Michele I agree we shouldn't limit what services the proxy service provides but I don't think we should set the baseline at that granular level Michele Neylon:Susan - I don't think we should set silly limits Terri Agnew:Sean McInerney has joined audio Mary Wong:@Kathy, for E-1 "commercially reasonable efforts to relay" is one option; if that is the preferred option, then the implications on E-2 (on screen now) will need to be addressed (or so I understand the discussion) Chris Pelling:can I reply to this please Kathy:sure! steve metalitz:+1 Susan, a no-forward policy cannot be allowed. We discussed this in detail several weeks ago. steve metalitz:.cat obtained a waiver from RAA Whois requirements Michele Neylon:yes they did Michele Neylon:kudos to them Chris Pelling:Graeme ? Mary Wong:We may have some AC audio issues Graeme Bunton:i don't think it's actually kathy live Graeme Bunton:sounds like its the recording malfunctioning Volker Greimann:i can wait Luc Seufer:this AC is haunted Terri Agnew:It appears our AC audio has stopped working iwth Audio, I will reconnect it Volker Greimann:I cannot hear steve very well, btw Don Blumenthal:Am I coming through? Graeme Bunton:not at the moment Mary Wong:Apparently a problem only with those purely on AC mic and audio, so if you are on phone bridge you should be fine. Luc Seufer:yes Don, you and ghost Steve Kathy:no Don Graeme Bunton:Well, that's an unfortunate way to end the call Terri Agnew:one moment will re establish Adobe line Don Blumenthal:I just got a notice that AC dropped audio Don Blumenthal:Can't get back in Volker Greimann:time is out anyway Terri Agnew:Adobe connect has been re estalbished Graeme Bunton:Yes please, thank you Mary Luc Seufer:bye Darcy Southwell:Thanks, bye.