Dear all, Please find below the Adobe Connect recording, chat and attendance from the Next-Gen RDS drafting team 2 - Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use call held on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC. Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/<https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=ba32205baa7d5c6f9f2d022df27c77f6f8ad33f70eee561c5b2448cd9588aee0> Apologies: Alan Greenberg Attendance: Susan Kawaguchi Maxim Alzoba, Volker Greimann, Brian Winterfeldt, Tapani Tarvainen, Daniel Nanghaka, Andrew Sullivan Staff: Nathalie Peregrine, Julie Bisland Thank you. Kind regards, Julie Adobe Connect Chat: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the RDS DT2 on Domain Name Control and Individual Internet Use on Tuesday 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC Volker Greimann:Still stuck on PPSAI IRT Nathalie Peregrine:Thank you Volker, noted. Volker Greimann:so I have this on mute until that ends Tapani Tarvainen:SRS = Shared Registry System Nathalie Peregrine:Maxim Alzoba has joined the meeting Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All, sorry for being bit late Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think there should be difference between what RDS collects/stores and shows Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ccTLDs have all kinds of wild things in their data designs Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):for example national IDs Tapani Tarvainen:Stuff in RDS should bejustified indepently of SRS, I think, even though there's a lot of overlap. Tapani Tarvainen:*independently Susan Kawaguchi:Contact information included RDS ? Tapani Tarvainen:So picking a subset of SRS as starting point for what should to to the RDS; I could live with that. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registry SRS recieves two kinds of items (added by Registrar personnel manually and added by Registrar using data of Reseller/Registrant) , mostly Susan Kawaguchi:Registrant name, address, phone number email address and Fax ? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the second set is mostly from B2C of Regisrar (facing to Registrart/Reseller) Tapani Tarvainen:I wasn't agreeing on the specific set of elements, only that SRS would be a useful starting point. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):should we underline that we are talking about collection/storage only now? Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Andrew Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which can be retained and which can be published andrew sullivan:We're not, though. I am talking about it now is all Nathalie Peregrine:@ all, Julie is now taking over from me for call management,thank you. Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which may be retained and which may be published Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 andrew - about items that transferred to SRS , and relevant to functioning of DNS system (but not all transferred items) andrew sullivan:What items that are transmitted via SRS protocol (i.e. EPP) are _not_ candidates for RDS collection? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ID's of persons Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it has nothing to do with DNS Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):but is a requirement for some TLDs andrew sullivan:The RDS is not only about the DNS, though andrew sullivan:If this were only about the DNS, the problem would be trivial andrew sullivan:we'd be done Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):transfer of person's ID to foreing party is heavily regulated almost everywhere Daniel K. Nanghaka:the data must be available to serve there purpose andrew sullivan:Yes. So under some conditions it can't be transferred. But the RDS is a distributed database Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not AMADEUS where you need it for security purposes Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Volker andrew sullivan:therefore there is collection as soon as the registrar has it Daniel K. Nanghaka:Registrar's must provide the data despite of its status despite its publicity status Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not going to be published, and collected by Registry according to it's policy / business cycle and not due to ICANN policy andrew sullivan:@Susan: I think it's a good start Tapani Tarvainen:Hard to disagree with those "may"s in there Tapani Tarvainen:Perhaps we could agree that items in SRS can be used as a starting point but not automatically include everything in there in RDS, too. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS is a method of B2B interaction done via EPP or sometimes offline Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so I am not sure we need to refer to SRS at all (in some situations data allowed to be passed to Registry via offline methods (fax, for example)) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):registry policies enforced only on Registry and Registrar level (if not required by contract then not on Reseller level) Julie Bisland:Daniel is connected via the audio bridge, but may be muted. I'll have operator call out to him andrew sullivan:What data is needed from RDS for transfer? If I'm a registrar, I can get that through the SRS, and non-registrars can't initiate the transfer. No? Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think we have to look at the specific data elements and derive use cases Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS only for contracted Registrars with the particular Registry Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):We shoudl distinguish between parties collecting data , and use we for GNSOrequirements Daniel K. Nanghaka:+1 Maxim Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and to clearly say "Registry" , "Registrar", "Reseller" whern we talk about the collection point and add "transfer of collected data from __ to ___" Tapani Tarvainen:I certainly occasionally use whois to check suspicious domains... but I may not be a typical Internet user. :-) Daniel K. Nanghaka:have we yet come to the issue of transfer. The transfer should be discussed in the second phase Tapani Tarvainen:Certificates are not so useful for email at present andrew sullivan:I do not think that we can use ICANN-familiar people as examples of "Internet users". We are outliers among outliers. Daniel K. Nanghaka:let's focus discussion to purposes, the certificate shows ownership Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think the layman Internet user does not understand privacy and that there data is out there Volker Greimann:and yet I still use it Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):baisc internet uses does not undersstand sometimes difference between correct and incorrect data/certificates e.t.c. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*user Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):domain administrator verification is in contracts so , unfortunately personal data is relevant to domain control Volker Greimann:Then you need another registrar ;-) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):REgistry is aware only of items given by Registrar Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):some exclusions might be - special procedure of additional verification e.t.c, Volker Greimann:Susan +1, but then we already agreed that registration dates are not personal data ;-) andrew sullivan:I think "verifying status of domain" could be a use case that is purely technical -- the non-renewal in the example would cause an outage andrew sullivan:But the overall management of portfolios -- which of these domains is associated with my account? -- could be outside that line Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew, verification is not technical issue , it is business issue (DNS works perfectly even with the non correct data of the Registrant, for example when he/she decided to change name) andrew sullivan:Surely if the registration does not get renewed, it's a technical issue -- the name stops working Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):most probably verification is anti-abuse related andrew sullivan:And also being able to contact someone because they're spewing garbage at me is a technical issie andrew sullivan:issue andrew sullivan::) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):time needs to be doodle polled Tapani Tarvainen:Same time next Tuesday is good andrew sullivan:ok for me Volker Greimann:ok Julie Bisland:Susan, I'll have a doodle poll sent for Tuesday Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I have more things happening so need to ensure no overlaps (preparations to ICANN meeting) andrew sullivan:thanks everyone Daniel K. Nanghaka:Thank you andrew sullivan:bye Tapani Tarvainen:bye and thanks all Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Bye all , good night Daniel K. Nanghaka:bye