The States are Getting into the Act
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification
card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or
an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN. Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS... A0530/&ChapterID=67&ChapterName=BUSINESS%20TRANSACTIONS&ActName=Personal%20Inf ormation%20Protection%20Act.> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com <mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com <mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" |"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: | |||||(1) Social Security number. | |||||(2) Driver's license number or State identification| || |card number.|
|||||(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or| || |an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.|
|"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. ||| |(Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)|
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 /Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don¹t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list. I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer supported by a password authentication on the buyer¹s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API¹s to be integrated, if need to do so arises. As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain. Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder It works as the Authentication has checks built in yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber where everyone runs amok. And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers², in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do ³Best Practice Sharing² and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more. Best -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards,
-Vaibhav Aggarwal
New Delhi
TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: < <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: RDS WG < <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels < <mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com> carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS %A0530/&ChapterID=67&ChapterName=BUSINESS%20TRANSACTIONS&ActName=Personal%20I nformation%20Protection%20Act.> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
"
"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification
card number.
(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or
an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.
"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don’t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.
I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer – supported by a password authentication on the buyer’s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API’s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.
As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.
Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin – the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder – It works as the Authentication has checks built in – yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber – where everyone runs amok.
And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers”, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do “Best Practice Sharing” and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe – both On the Earth and outside the earth.
I look forward to deliberating on this further more.
Best -VA
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com <mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" |"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: | |||||(1) Social Security number. | |||||(2) Driver's license number or State identification| || |card number.|
|||||(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or| || |an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.|
|"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. ||| |(Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)|
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 /Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Volker, No you don¹t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner. So here is my take Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people No you don¹t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM¹s Official Stand on the matter in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate. Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living especially for security. So don¹t be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don¹t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let¹s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don¹t have the time to read BS. At least I don¹t. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy. So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don¹t be patronizing its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don¹t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.
I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer supported by a password authentication on the buyer¹s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API¹s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.
As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.
Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.
The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder It works as the Authentication has checks built in yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber where everyone runs amok.
And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers², in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do ³Best Practice Sharing² and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe both On the Earth and outside the earth.
I look forward to deliberating on this further more.
Best
-VA
From: < <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: < <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards,
-Vaibhav Aggarwal
New Delhi
TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche < <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net> h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILC S%A0530/&ChapterID=67&ChapterName=BUSINESS%20TRANSACTIONS&ActName=Personal%2 0Information%20Protection%20Act.> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
"
"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification
card number.
(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or
an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.
"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Hi, I am sorry if my previous mail came over a bit harsh. I appreciate that your background may be different from mine and the situation in India may be different from the one in Europe. I take issue with your suggestion that my horizon is limited by my origin though as I have travelled and lived abroad quite a lot as well. I also take issue with the continuous attempts to attempt to regulate content and abusive use of the internet through domain names. That aside and back to the topic though, I absolutely refuse to compromise on issues of legal obligations and rights of both service providers and those that they serve. As ICANN policy may not violate national or international law, the requirements of the country with the most protective privacy laws must form the basis for our deliberations. Anything less than that maximum would put service providers in a position where they may have to violate applicable law. If you in India feel that German privacy laws go to far, that is just too bad, but that is what is the law for us and therefore the measure that I will apply to any suggestion made in this group. If that does not serve your national security needs, I am sorry but whois policy was never intended to serve national or regional security needs. Just like the presumption of innocense means that some criminals will get away with it, the protection of individual privacy rights will mean certain data will not be accessible, no matter how desperately some security agencies want it. If we compare it to another recent issue, I believe Apple was absolutely right to refuse the demands made by the FBI. I am confident that we as a working group will be able to achieve a consensus position, however this will only be possible if this discussion is devoid of attempts to regulate the internet. Replacing whois with a new system is a daunting task already, let us not make it impossible. Unlike a democracy, the majority does not decide the outcome of a PDP, we need consensus. That aside, I am confident that the majority of the group opposes the suggestions you have made. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Volker,
No you don’t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.
So here is my take – Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people – No you don’t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM’s Official Stand on the matter – in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.
Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living – especially for security. So don’t be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don’t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you.
Also, let’s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don’t have the time to read BS. At least I don’t.
Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great – if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.
So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don’t be patronizing – its democracy not war.
-VA
From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com <mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price.
I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters.
I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common.
Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations.
If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don’t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.
I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer – supported by a password authentication on the buyer’s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API’s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.
As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.
Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin – the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder – It works as the Authentication has checks built in – yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber – where everyone runs amok.
And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers”, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do “Best Practice Sharing” and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe – both On the Earth and outside the earth.
I look forward to deliberating on this further more.
Best -VA
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com <mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" |"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: | |||||(1) Social Security number. | |||||(2) Driver's license number or State identification| || |card number.|
|||||(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or| || |an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.|
|"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. ||| |(Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)|
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 /Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I welcome your Suggestions and look forward to an ³Inter-Galactic² or "Inter-Continental² approach to the matter. This will warrant co-operation and careful deliberation from our global learnings. Also, In my opinion, if everything was so hunky-Dory, then we need not deliberate on the NEXT-GEN part of it. Thus the formation of this WG warrants to bring about a change, from the day of its inception. So new Times need New Measures, but the extent & methodology of change can be something which is up for discussion. ISIS or the US 9/11/2001 (Memorial Opening Next Week) or the Indian 26/11/2008 or the Afghan Some 12-13-14-15-16, and Global Warming were never there the last time WHO is Privacy rules were made. Look forward to interacting with you & everyone on the subject constructively. Best regards & have a wonderful evening, Vaibhav tweet with me : @bladebrains <http://twitter.com/bladebrains> facebook page : bladebrains <http://facebook.com/bladebrains> Vaibhav Aggarwal | President & Group CEO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ Blade-BRAINS Group | e : va@bladebrains.com <mailto:va@bladebrains.com> | m : +91.989924.6969 | Fax : +91.(0).80.66885806 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ www.bladebrains.com <http://www.bladebrains.com/> | the DO MORE team ! Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Be Green. ³Blade-BRAINS² & logo is our trademark. Jaipur | New Delhi | Mumbai | Bangalore | Dharamshala More about Mr. Aggarwal : Twitter : <applewebdata://0E5CF31A-D1FA-4E52-9FA2-50D8CAA7053B/twitter.com/thevaibhava g> TheVaibhavAg <http://twitter.com/TheVaibhavAg> Youtube Channel 1 : <applewebdata://0E5CF31A-D1FA-4E52-9FA2-50D8CAA7053B/youtube.com/thetelesolu tions> TheTelesolutions <http://youtube.com/thetelesolutions> Youtube Channel 2 : +VaibhavAggarwalIndia <http://youtube.com/+VaibhavAggarwalIndia> Google Plus : +VaibhavAggarwalIndia <http://plus.google.com/+VaibhavAggarwalIndia> Facebook Page : Vaibhav.Tiger <http://facebook.com/vaibhav.tiger> Linkedin : Vaibhav Aggarwal <http://linkedin.com/in/vaibhavbb> Member : BJP <http://bjp.org/> , The Largest Political Party in the World Founder & CEO : Mobile Telesolutions <http://mobiletelesolutions.com/> , Digital Marketing on the Mobile Platform President : VetBRAINS(tm) <http://vetbrains.com/> , The Online Strategists & Marketers Catalyst : eChabi(tm), Inc <http://echabi.com/> , Online & Ecommerce Consultants President : The Vaibhav & Associates <http://thevaibhav.com/> , The Strategy Team Founder & Managing Partner : DigitalCon <http://digitalconindia.com> <http://digitalconindia.com> , A Public Policy Advocacy & Strategy Platform Founder : Bring Back the Lost <http://bringbackthelost.com/> Member Core Team : Bharat Niti, a Policy & Current Affairs Portal <http://bharatniti.com/> National President : Bharat Yuva Kranti Sangathan & Narendra Bhai Modi Yuva Kranti Sangathan <http://bharatyuvakranti.com/> Media & IT : Himalaya Pariwar <http://himalayapariwar.com/> & Sindhu Darshan Yatra Samiti <http://sindhudarshan.in/> (Sangh Pariwar) Notice: *** Blade-BRAINS Group Confidentiality Note: This email transmission and any documents accompanying this email transmission contain information from B-B, which is confidential. The information is intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to B-B immediately. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately by email address set forth above* From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 8:41 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Hi, I am sorry if my previous mail came over a bit harsh. I appreciate that your background may be different from mine and the situation in India may be different from the one in Europe. I take issue with your suggestion that my horizon is limited by my origin though as I have travelled and lived abroad quite a lot as well. I also take issue with the continuous attempts to attempt to regulate content and abusive use of the internet through domain names. That aside and back to the topic though, I absolutely refuse to compromise on issues of legal obligations and rights of both service providers and those that they serve. As ICANN policy may not violate national or international law, the requirements of the country with the most protective privacy laws must form the basis for our deliberations. Anything less than that maximum would put service providers in a position where they may have to violate applicable law. If you in India feel that German privacy laws go to far, that is just too bad, but that is what is the law for us and therefore the measure that I will apply to any suggestion made in this group. If that does not serve your national security needs, I am sorry but whois policy was never intended to serve national or regional security needs. Just like the presumption of innocense means that some criminals will get away with it, the protection of individual privacy rights will mean certain data will not be accessible, no matter how desperately some security agencies want it. If we compare it to another recent issue, I believe Apple was absolutely right to refuse the demands made by the FBI. I am confident that we as a working group will be able to achieve a consensus position, however this will only be possible if this discussion is devoid of attempts to regulate the internet. Replacing whois with a new system is a daunting task already, let us not make it impossible. Unlike a democracy, the majority does not decide the outcome of a PDP, we need consensus. That aside, I am confident that the majority of the group opposes the suggestions you have made. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Volker,
No you don¹t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ?
I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.
So here is my take Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people No you don¹t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group.
You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM¹s Official Stand on the matter in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.
Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime.
Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living especially for security. So don¹t be Patronising.
BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don¹t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you.
Also, let¹s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don¹t have the time to read BS. At least I don¹t.
Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.
So Chill and Relax !!
Next time be professional and don¹t be patronizing its democracy not war.
-VA
From: Volker Greimann < <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price.
I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters.
I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common.
Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations.
If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don¹t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.
I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer supported by a password authentication on the buyer¹s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API¹s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.
As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.
Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.
The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder It works as the Authentication has checks built in yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber where everyone runs amok.
And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers², in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do ³Best Practice Sharing² and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe both On the Earth and outside the earth.
I look forward to deliberating on this further more.
Best
-VA
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann < <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: < <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards,
-Vaibhav Aggarwal
New Delhi
TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com>
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche < <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net> h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:
(a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material
(a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act <http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0IL CS%A0530/&ChapterID=67&ChapterName=BUSINESS%20TRANSACTIONS&ActName=Personal %20Information%20Protection%20Act.> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
"
"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification
card number.
(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or
an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.
"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
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Very well said, Volker. I support your comments in their entirety. There are two roads we can take in this working group: one will lead us to an open, trusted Internet along with all the economic and social benefits that would bring. The other road takes us to a place where users are fearful of the Internet and where the benefits for commerce begin to stagnate. I would hope we all want to contribute to a global digital economy where trust in the Internet as a safe and secure place to communicate and to do business can thrive. If we close off these benefits trying to achieve security objectives, it is we - not the malicious actors - who stand to loose the most. So to the suggestion that was raised of collecting social security numbers: I do not support this. Our digital economy grows only because end users and businesses are confident that the Internet does not hurt their fundamental rights, including the reasonable expectation to privacy. And for the record, I think it's a touch unfair to accuse some voices of having a conflict of interest when their email signature and statement of interest fairly notes what influences may contribute to the views they have brought to our multistakeholder dialogue. Best wishes, Ayden On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 4:11 PM, Volker Greimann vgreimann@key-systems.net wrote: Hi, I am sorry if my previous mail came over a bit harsh. I appreciate that your background may be different from mine and the situation in India may be different from the one in Europe. I take issue with your suggestion that my horizon is limited by my origin though as I have travelled and lived abroad quite a lot as well. I also take issue with the continuous attempts to attempt to regulate content and abusive use of the internet through domain names. That aside and back to the topic though, I absolutely refuse to compromise on issues of legal obligations and rights of both service providers and those that they serve. As ICANN policy may not violate national or international law, the requirements of the country with the most protective privacy laws must form the basis for our deliberations. Anything less than that maximum would put service providers in a position where they may have to violate applicable law. If you in India feel that German privacy laws go to far, that is just too bad, but that is what is the law for us and therefore the measure that I will apply to any suggestion made in this group. If that does not serve your national security needs, I am sorry but whois policy was never intended to serve national or regional security needs. Just like the presumption of innocense means that some criminals will get away with it, the protection of individual privacy rights will mean certain data will not be accessible, no matter how desperately some security agencies want it. If we compare it to another recent issue, I believe Apple was absolutely right to refuse the demands made by the FBI. I am confident that we as a working group will be able to achieve a consensus position, however this will only be possible if this discussion is devoid of attempts to regulate the internet. Replacing whois with a new system is a daunting task already, let us not make it impossible. Unlike a democracy, the majority does not decide the outcome of a PDP, we need consensus. That aside, I am confident that the majority of the group opposes the suggestions you have made. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Volker,� No you don�t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.� So here is my take � Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people � No you don�t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group.� You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM�s Official Stand on the matter � in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.� Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime.� Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living � especially for security. So don�t be Patronising.� BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don�t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let�s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don�t have the time to read BS. At least I don�t. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great � if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.� So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don�t be patronizing � its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann < vgreimann@key-systems.net > Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal < va@bladebrains.com >, < gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don�t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.� I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer � supported by a password authentication on the buyer�s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API�s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.� As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.� Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.� The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin � the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder � It works as the Authentication has checks built in � yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber � where everyone runs amok.� And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers�, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do �Best Practice Sharing� and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe � both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more.� Best� -VA From: < gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org > on behalf of Volker Greimann < vgreimann@key-systems.net > Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: < gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.� Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com From: < gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org > on behalf of Holly Raiche < h.raiche@internode.on.net > Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: RDS WG < gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a)�� (a)� whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b)�whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a)�� form or not. � And the Privacy Commissioner�ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted:� ���� ���� (1) Social Security number.� ���� ���� (2) Driver's license number or State identification ���� card number. ���� ���� (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or ���� an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records.� (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. Ayden Férdeline Statement of Interest
+1 Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2016, at 18:04, Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: Very well said, Volker. I support your comments in their entirety. There are two roads we can take in this working group: one will lead us to an open, trusted Internet along with all the economic and social benefits that would bring. The other road takes us to a place where users are fearful of the Internet and where the benefits for commerce begin to stagnate. I would hope we all want to contribute to a global digital economy where trust in the Internet as a safe and secure place to communicate and to do business can thrive. If we close off these benefits trying to achieve security objectives, it is we - not the malicious actors - who stand to loose the most. So to the suggestion that was raised of collecting social security numbers: I do not support this. Our digital economy grows only because end users and businesses are confident that the Internet does not hurt their fundamental rights, including the reasonable expectation to privacy. And for the record, I think it's a touch unfair to accuse some voices of having a conflict of interest when their email signature and statement of interest fairly notes what influences may contribute to the views they have brought to our multistakeholder dialogue. Best wishes, Ayden On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 4:11 PM, Volker Greimann vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote: Hi, I am sorry if my previous mail came over a bit harsh. I appreciate that your background may be different from mine and the situation in India may be different from the one in Europe. I take issue with your suggestion that my horizon is limited by my origin though as I have travelled and lived abroad quite a lot as well. I also take issue with the continuous attempts to attempt to regulate content and abusive use of the internet through domain names. That aside and back to the topic though, I absolutely refuse to compromise on issues of legal obligations and rights of both service providers and those that they serve. As ICANN policy may not violate national or international law, the requirements of the country with the most protective privacy laws must form the basis for our deliberations. Anything less than that maximum would put service providers in a position where they may have to violate applicable law. If you in India feel that German privacy laws go to far, that is just too bad, but that is what is the law for us and therefore the measure that I will apply to any suggestion made in this group. If that does not serve your national security needs, I am sorry but whois policy was never intended to serve national or regional security needs. Just like the presumption of innocense means that some criminals will get away with it, the protection of individual privacy rights will mean certain data will not be accessible, no matter how desperately some security agencies want it. If we compare it to another recent issue, I believe Apple was absolutely right to refuse the demands made by the FBI. I am confident that we as a working group will be able to achieve a consensus position, however this will only be possible if this discussion is devoid of attempts to regulate the internet. Replacing whois with a new system is a daunting task already, let us not make it impossible. Unlike a democracy, the majority does not decide the outcome of a PDP, we need consensus. That aside, I am confident that the majority of the group opposes the suggestions you have made. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Volker,� No you don�t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.� So here is my take � Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people � No you don�t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group.� You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM�s Official Stand on the matter � in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.� Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime.� Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living � especially for security. So don�t be Patronising.� BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don�t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let�s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don�t have the time to read BS. At least I don�t. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great � if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.� So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don�t be patronizing � its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don�t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.� I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer � supported by a password authentication on the buyer�s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API�s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.� As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.� Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.� The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin � the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder � It works as the Authentication has checks built in � yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber � where everyone runs amok.� And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers�, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do �Best Practice Sharing� and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe � both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more.� Best� -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.� Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a)�� (a)�whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b)�whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a)�� form or not. �And the Privacy Commissioner�ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted:� ��������(1) Social Security number.� ��������(2) Driver's license number or State identification ���� card number. ��������(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or ���� an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records.� (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. Ayden Férdeline Statement of Interest<https://community.icann.org/display/gnsosoi/Ayden+Férdeline+SOI> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Let me point out that it is okay to have conflicts of interest. All of us have them including me. The key is that they are communicated so that we are all aware and can weigh views with them in mind. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 11:56 AM To: Volker Greimann Cc: Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org; Gomes, Chuck; Kathy Kleiman Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Very well said, Volker. I support your comments in their entirety. There are two roads we can take in this working group: one will lead us to an open, trusted Internet along with all the economic and social benefits that would bring. The other road takes us to a place where users are fearful of the Internet and where the benefits for commerce begin to stagnate. I would hope we all want to contribute to a global digital economy where trust in the Internet as a safe and secure place to communicate and to do business can thrive. If we close off these benefits trying to achieve security objectives, it is we - not the malicious actors - who stand to loose the most. So to the suggestion that was raised of collecting social security numbers: I do not support this. Our digital economy grows only because end users and businesses are confident that the Internet does not hurt their fundamental rights, including the reasonable expectation to privacy. And for the record, I think it's a touch unfair to accuse some voices of having a conflict of interest when their email signature and statement of interest fairly notes what influences may contribute to the views they have brought to our multistakeholder dialogue. Best wishes, Ayden [https://app.mixmax.com/api/track/v2/wmBhRphJbvA2JZi7H/i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5...] On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 4:11 PM, Volker Greimann vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote: Hi, I am sorry if my previous mail came over a bit harsh. I appreciate that your background may be different from mine and the situation in India may be different from the one in Europe. I take issue with your suggestion that my horizon is limited by my origin though as I have travelled and lived abroad quite a lot as well. I also take issue with the continuous attempts to attempt to regulate content and abusive use of the internet through domain names. That aside and back to the topic though, I absolutely refuse to compromise on issues of legal obligations and rights of both service providers and those that they serve. As ICANN policy may not violate national or international law, the requirements of the country with the most protective privacy laws must form the basis for our deliberations. Anything less than that maximum would put service providers in a position where they may have to violate applicable law. If you in India feel that German privacy laws go to far, that is just too bad, but that is what is the law for us and therefore the measure that I will apply to any suggestion made in this group. If that does not serve your national security needs, I am sorry but whois policy was never intended to serve national or regional security needs. Just like the presumption of innocense means that some criminals will get away with it, the protection of individual privacy rights will mean certain data will not be accessible, no matter how desperately some security agencies want it. If we compare it to another recent issue, I believe Apple was absolutely right to refuse the demands made by the FBI. I am confident that we as a working group will be able to achieve a consensus position, however this will only be possible if this discussion is devoid of attempts to regulate the internet. Replacing whois with a new system is a daunting task already, let us not make it impossible. Unlike a democracy, the majority does not decide the outcome of a PDP, we need consensus. That aside, I am confident that the majority of the group opposes the suggestions you have made. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Volker,� No you don�t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.� So here is my take � Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people � No you don�t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group.� You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM�s Official Stand on the matter � in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.� Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime.� Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living � especially for security. So don�t be Patronising.� BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don�t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let�s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don�t have the time to read BS. At least I don�t. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great � if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.� So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don�t be patronizing � its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don�t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.� I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer � supported by a password authentication on the buyer�s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API�s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.� As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.� Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.� The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin � the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder � It works as the Authentication has checks built in � yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber � where everyone runs amok.� And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers�, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do �Best Practice Sharing� and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe � both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more.� Best� -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.� Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a)�� (a)�whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b)�whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a)�� form or not. �And the Privacy Commissioner�ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted:� ��������(1) Social Security number.� ��������(2) Driver's license number or State identification ���� card number. ��������(3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or ���� an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records.� (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf�gung. Mit freundlichen Gr��en, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f�r den angegebenen Empf�nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Ver�ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf�nger ist unzul�ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f�r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. Ayden Férdeline Statement of Interest<https://community.icann.org/display/gnsosoi/Ayden+Férdeline+SOI>
Reading this thread I find your attitude against others raising as an opponent to your thoughts and ideas very patronizing With statements that Volker should be allowed to be part of making policy you clearly haven't understood the ICANN model and probably never will change your attitude in that regards Furthermore stating that if you are not heard you have other ways of power making it come through... Seriously???? And you "demand" others to behave! Go take some of your own advice you throw out in your emails it might do you good.... Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2016, at 17:17, Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>> wrote: Volker, No you don’t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner. So here is my take – Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people – No you don’t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM’s Official Stand on the matter – in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate. Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living – especially for security. So don’t be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don’t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let’s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don’t have the time to read BS. At least I don’t. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great – if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy. So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don’t be patronizing – its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don’t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list. I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer – supported by a password authentication on the buyer’s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API’s to be integrated, if need to do so arises. As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain. Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin – the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder – It works as the Authentication has checks built in – yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber – where everyone runs amok. And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers”, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do “Best Practice Sharing” and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe – both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more. Best -VA From: <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN. Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Let's please avoid personal criticism. We can disagree without being critical of the people who disagree with us. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of benny@nordreg.se Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 11:50 AM To: Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Reading this thread I find your attitude against others raising as an opponent to your thoughts and ideas very patronizing With statements that Volker should be allowed to be part of making policy you clearly haven't understood the ICANN model and probably never will change your attitude in that regards Furthermore stating that if you are not heard you have other ways of power making it come through... Seriously???? And you "demand" others to behave! Go take some of your own advice you throw out in your emails it might do you good.... Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2016, at 17:17, Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>> wrote: Volker, No you don't take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner. So here is my take - Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people - No you don't. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM's Official Stand on the matter - in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate. Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living - especially for security. So don't be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don't get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let's be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don't have the time to read BS. At least I don't. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great - if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy. So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don't be patronizing - its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don't take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list. I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer - supported by a password authentication on the buyer's cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API's to be integrated, if need to do so arises. As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain. Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin - the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder - It works as the Authentication has checks built in - yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber - where everyone runs amok. And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers", in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do "Best Practice Sharing" and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe - both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more. Best -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN. Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I request that we end the back and forth on this. As I already said, we are deliberating yet so please save your arguments for when we do. Also, please avoid personal attacks; they will only make it harder for us to work together later on. Disagree but do so at the right time and the right manner. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:45 AM To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Importance: High Volker, No you don't take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner. So here is my take - Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people - No you don't. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM's Official Stand on the matter - in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate. Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living - especially for security. So don't be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don't get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you. Also, let's be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don't have the time to read BS. At least I don't. Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great - if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy. So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don't be patronizing - its democracy not war. -VA From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com<mailto:va@bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price. I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters. I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common. Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations. If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent. Best regards, Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don't take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list. I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer - supported by a password authentication on the buyer's cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API's to be integrated, if need to do so arises. As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain. Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin - the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder - It works as the Authentication has checks built in - yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber - where everyone runs amok. And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers", in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do "Best Practice Sharing" and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe - both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more. Best -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN. Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
+2 Chuck Sent from my mobile device. Typos regretted.
On Jun 23, 2016, at 12:17 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
I request that we end the back and forth on this. As I already said, we are deliberating yet so please save your arguments for when we do. Also, please avoid personal attacks; they will only make it harder for us to work together later on. Disagree but do so at the right time and the right manner.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:45 AM To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Importance: High
Volker,
No you don’t take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ? I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.
So here is my take – Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people – No you don’t. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group. You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM’s Official Stand on the matter – in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.
Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime. Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living – especially for security. So don’t be Patronising. BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don’t get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you.
Also, let’s be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don’t have the time to read BS. At least I don’t.
Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great – if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.
So Chill and Relax !! Next time be professional and don’t be patronizing – its democracy not war.
-VA
From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va@bladebrains.com>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price.
I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters.
I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common.
Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations.
If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don’t take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.
I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer – supported by a password authentication on the buyer’s cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API’s to be integrated, if need to do so arises.
As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.
Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin – the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder – It works as the Authentication has checks built in – yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber – where everyone runs amok.
And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers”, in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do “Best Practice Sharing” and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe – both On the Earth and outside the earth.
I look forward to deliberating on this further more.
Best -VA
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.
Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act
That is scary.
The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not.
And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)
Holly
On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:
" "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification
card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or
an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
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We are getting ahead of ourselves here. We are not yet in the deliberation stage. Please be patient and wait until we are deliberating on these points. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 9:29 AM To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Importance: High Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don't take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list. I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer - supported by a password authentication on the buyer's cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API's to be integrated, if need to do so arises. As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain. Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones. The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin - the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder - It works as the Authentication has checks built in - yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber - where everyone runs amok. And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers", in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do "Best Practice Sharing" and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe - both On the Earth and outside the earth. I look forward to deliberating on this further more. Best -VA From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal: Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN. Regards, -Vaibhav Aggarwal New Delhi TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act That is scary. The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition: personal information means information or an opinion about an identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably identifiable: (a) (a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and (b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material (a) form or not. And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data) Holly On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS...> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded: " "Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted: (1) Social Security number. (2) Driver's license number or State identification card number. (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account. "Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records. (Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.) -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I have a brief comment to follow up on Volker’s comments, the spirit of which I completely support. I recognize that my comments may be unpopular. I have kept a low profile in these discussions and I fear that despite heroic work and dedication on the part of all, there is a serious risk of this turning into a train wreck in practice. Registries and registrars operate under the existing laws of the countries in which they reside. Increasingly they cannot conduct business in countries unless they have a business presence in that country. This gives countries power over registries and registrars, including the power to override elements of contracts with ICANN. How can this reality be reconciled with extending the most extensive privacy protection level to customers in ways that are workable for all providers and their customers? ICANN can identify the absolute minimum data set required by ICANN. ICANN does not have the country by country experience or exposure of registrars and registries. It could participate in DNS industry led efforts to deal with registries and registrar data requirements, but those efforts are probably best held outside ICANN and (horror of horrors) will likely involve multilateral efforts to reconcile inter-country differences where ICANN could/should engage both as a stakeholder and as an advocate for the common good in Internet governance. In short, ICANN should (but probably won’t) focus on ICANN’s minimum needs, and then work elsewhere in partnership, as a stakeholder and offer wise counsel, within the larger multilateral and country by country struggle for customer privacy and security in ways workable for all providers and their customers. Does this sound like a new ICANN? Yes. Is there a choice? I think not. Might I be wrong? Maybe. A train wreck? Hope not. Sam L. On 6/22/2016 7:06 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
I support & Agree to your View Sam. This is exactly what my thoughts are on the topic. So Perhaps there could be a Methodology where a balanced approach, in line with conveniences, securities etc. be taken and provide a robust self reliance rather than waiting for the Authorities to act as this will only be after any misuse. Infant we could get views from the diff. governments on this too. We should be able to collect views on it and collectively find a way to protect privacy, uphold the rule to privacy globally and still be safe. BUT definitely You last two lines Yes this is the New ICANN and No there is no choice. Train Wreck? Hope Not. :-) -VA TheVaibhav.com <http://thevaibhav.com> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 8:06 PM To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I have a brief comment to follow up on Volker¹s comments, the spirit of which I completely support. I recognize that my comments may be unpopular. I have kept a low profile in these discussions and I fear that despite heroic work and dedication on the part of all, there is a serious risk of this turning into a train wreck in practice. Registries and registrars operate under the existing laws of the countries in which they reside. Increasingly they cannot conduct business in countries unless they have a business presence in that country. This gives countries power over registries and registrars, including the power to override elements of contracts with ICANN. How can this reality be reconciled with extending the most extensive privacy protection level to customers in ways that are workable for all providers and their customers? ICANN can identify the absolute minimum data set required by ICANN. ICANN does not have the country by country experience or exposure of registrars and registries. It could participate in DNS industry led efforts to deal with registries and registrar data requirements, but those efforts are probably best held outside ICANN and (horror of horrors) will likely involve multilateral efforts to reconcile inter-country differences where ICANN could/should engage both as a stakeholder and as an advocate for the common good in Internet governance. In short, ICANN should (but probably won¹t) focus on ICANN¹s minimum needs, and then work elsewhere in partnership, as a stakeholder and offer wise counsel, within the larger multilateral and country by country struggle for customer privacy and security in ways workable for all providers and their customers. Does this sound like a new ICANN? Yes. Is there a choice? I think not. Might I be wrong? Maybe. A train wreck? Hope not. Sam L. On 6/22/2016 7:06 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.
If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.
Volker
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Let me point out that for the sake of this discussion, ICANN is not some third party; we are ICANN. ICANN is all of the SOs and ACs and SGs and Cs; it is not just staff or the Board. It is our task as a WG to try to develop answers to the questions that have been asked and develop policy if possible for an RDS system. The GNSO Council will then decide whether we have followed proper procedures and process and, if so, forward our policy recommendations to the Board. Nothing can become policy unless the Board approves it and they have a responsibility to respect the multistakeholder process that we are all a part of in ICANN. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Sam Lanfranco Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:37 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act I have a brief comment to follow up on Volker’s comments, the spirit of which I completely support. I recognize that my comments may be unpopular. I have kept a low profile in these discussions and I fear that despite heroic work and dedication on the part of all, there is a serious risk of this turning into a train wreck in practice. Registries and registrars operate under the existing laws of the countries in which they reside. Increasingly they cannot conduct business in countries unless they have a business presence in that country. This gives countries power over registries and registrars, including the power to override elements of contracts with ICANN. How can this reality be reconciled with extending the most extensive privacy protection level to customers in ways that are workable for all providers and their customers? ICANN can identify the absolute minimum data set required by ICANN. ICANN does not have the country by country experience or exposure of registrars and registries. It could participate in DNS industry led efforts to deal with registries and registrar data requirements, but those efforts are probably best held outside ICANN and (horror of horrors) will likely involve multilateral efforts to reconcile inter-country differences where ICANN could/should engage both as a stakeholder and as an advocate for the common good in Internet governance. In short, ICANN should (but probably won’t) focus on ICANN’s minimum needs, and then work elsewhere in partnership, as a stakeholder and offer wise counsel, within the larger multilateral and country by country struggle for customer privacy and security in ways workable for all providers and their customers. Does this sound like a new ICANN? Yes. Is there a choice? I think not. Might I be wrong? Maybe. A train wreck? Hope not. Sam L. On 6/22/2016 7:06 AM, Volker Greimann wrote: Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required. If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers. Volker
Chuck, This is where there is a single major disagreement. We all agree that "ICANN is all of the SOs and ACs and SGs and Cs; [and] it is not just staff or the Board". That is not the issue. The source of disagreement is over whether or not that inclusive multistakeholder ICANN has total domain over the RDS system within the larger scope of Internet governance, or instead, ICANN only has domain over the RDS system within its well delineated remit. The disagreement is with regard to the wider remit of Internet governance beyond ICANN. That wider remit includes individual national Internet policy and regional/global (UN/multilateral) Internet policy. For worse or better, that wider remit may dominate ICANN policy implementation. In that wider Internet governance remit ICANN (inclusive and multistakeholder) is a vested interest "third party" stakeholder. ICANN can champion good strategy and best practice within its remit. ICANN can champion good strategy and best practice as a stakeholder in that wider remit. However, ICANN does not have the authority to dominate or determine national and multilateral policy. Its role there is as a stakeholder, hopefully pressing for the common good, and certainly trying to protect the boundaries of its own remit. That is as clearly as I can say it so I will shut up and return to supporting the best RDS policy ICANN can craft. Sam L. On 6/22/2016 2:58 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Let me point out that for the sake of this discussion, ICANN is not some third party; we are ICANN. ICANN is all of the SOs and ACs and SGs and Cs; it is not just staff or the Board. It is our task as a WG to try to develop answers to the questions that have been asked and develop policy if possible for an RDS system. The GNSO Council will then decide whether we have followed proper procedures and process and, if so, forward our policy recommendations to the Board. Nothing can become policy unless the Board approves it and they have a responsibility to respect the multistakeholder process that we are all a part of in ICANN.
Chuck
-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog: http://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
You lost me Sam. I suggest we stick to ICANN’s remit. We are obligated to do that. Chuck From: Sam Lanfranco [mailto:sam@lanfranco.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:42 PM To: Gomes, Chuck; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act Chuck, This is where there is a single major disagreement. We all agree that "ICANN is all of the SOs and ACs and SGs and Cs; [and] it is not just staff or the Board". That is not the issue. The source of disagreement is over whether or not that inclusive multistakeholder ICANN has total domain over the RDS system within the larger scope of Internet governance, or instead, ICANN only has domain over the RDS system within its well delineated remit. The disagreement is with regard to the wider remit of Internet governance beyond ICANN. That wider remit includes individual national Internet policy and regional/global (UN/multilateral) Internet policy. For worse or better, that wider remit may dominate ICANN policy implementation. In that wider Internet governance remit ICANN (inclusive and multistakeholder) is a vested interest "third party" stakeholder. ICANN can champion good strategy and best practice within its remit. ICANN can champion good strategy and best practice as a stakeholder in that wider remit. However, ICANN does not have the authority to dominate or determine national and multilateral policy. Its role there is as a stakeholder, hopefully pressing for the common good, and certainly trying to protect the boundaries of its own remit. That is as clearly as I can say it so I will shut up and return to supporting the best RDS policy ICANN can craft. Sam L. On 6/22/2016 2:58 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: Let me point out that for the sake of this discussion, ICANN is not some third party; we are ICANN. ICANN is all of the SOs and ACs and SGs and Cs; it is not just staff or the Board. It is our task as a WG to try to develop answers to the questions that have been asked and develop policy if possible for an RDS system. The GNSO Council will then decide whether we have followed proper procedures and process and, if so, forward our policy recommendations to the Board. Nothing can become policy unless the Board approves it and they have a responsibility to respect the multistakeholder process that we are all a part of in ICANN. Chuck -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: http://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
participants (9)
-
Ayden Férdeline -
benny＠nordreg.se -
Carlton Samuels -
Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal -
Gomes, Chuck -
Group CEO-Vaibhav Aggarwal
-
Holly Raiche -
Sam Lanfranco -
Volker Greimann