Dear All, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 25 October 2016 at 16:00 UTC. MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-25oct16-en.mp3 <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-13sep16-en.mp3> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-06sep16-en.mp3> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/LyS4Aw Thank you. Kind regards, Michelle DeSmyter ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday, 25 October 2016 Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on Tuesday, 25 October 2016 at 16:00 UTC. Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_L... Chuck Gomes:Hello all Ankur Raheja:Hello Alex Deacon:good morning.... Patrick Lenihan:This is new to me. How do we mute our mikes? Patrick Lenihan:Just figured it out, thanks! Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All Stephanie Perrin:test Marika Konings:test received! Patrick Lenihan:Sorry, I have missed the last few meetings because I was in Cairo, Egypte without internet access. Patrick Lenihan:I have caught up on the recent posts however. Marika Konings 2:Note, I've added Peter's comments to the version displayed on the screen. As it came in just before the call, it is not yet in the version that was circulated by email. Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:sounds keep dropping Patrick Lenihan:I have now sound. Patrick Lenihan:no Marika Konings 2:@Benny - the issue may be on your side? You may want to try restarting Adobe Connect. Patrick Lenihan:I have no sound. Marika Konings 2:Audio is fine on this end (both phone and Adobe Connect) Patrick Lenihan:My computer is making plenty of lively noises, but I have nothing from Adobe Connect. Patrick Lenihan:I will try to log in again. Patrick Lenihan:I am IN! Alex Deacon:A purpose of RDS is to promote the availability and accuracy of gTLD registration data. Jim Galvin (Afilias):I do not understand how an RDS "promotes". I disagree with the use of that word in any context. Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alex Vicky Sheckler:+1 Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:totally agree promote is wrong Lisa Phifer:Alternatives to "promote" might be "encourage" or "support" - the idea was to further the goal of accuracy while recognizing the RDS role of making data available Jim Galvin (Afilias):A purpose of RDS is to provide an authoritative source of registration data. A purpose of RDS is to collect accurate data. Vlad Dinculescu:+1 Jim Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):RDS does not collect data, though. Patrick Lenihan:Developing accuracy of registration data.... Jim Galvin (Afilias):+1 scott - i'm really suggesting we need to associate "accuracy" with "collection" in some way, not with display Stephanie Perrin:It is not authoritiative, it is definitely derivative. Stephanie Perrin:+ 1 Scott Jim Galvin (Afilias):@stephanie - it is authoritative in a technology sense - legal or privacy interpretations may be different. Stephanie Perrin:I think we need to distinguish better between the instrument and the policy Stephanie Perrin:We are co-mingling these things at the purpose level all the time, and they do different things Jim Galvin (Afilias):@stephanie - yes, i'm open to suggestions. Alex Deacon:One of the arguments of WHOIS data is in-accurate is because of the total public nature of the data collected. If we add gated/authenticated access to a future RDS then this may indeed "promote" improved accuracy. Patrick Lenihan:Who is the Authority? steve metalitz:"Authoritativeness" was discussed at length in the Thick Whois PDP WG: see report https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_issue... at pp. 35-38. Alex Deacon:*of why WHOIS data is in-accurate Patrick Lenihan:Thanks! Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:can we put A purpose of RDS is to provide an authoritative source of data on record ? Jim Galvin (Afilias):A purpose of RDS is to provide authoritative access to registration data. Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:+1 Jim steve metalitz:Here is how the Thick Whois report addressed Stephanie's point: Most comments that addressed this question stated that registry data is considered authoritative in the thick environment. Only one stated that the registrar data was authoritative. Again, the WG is not aware of any official ICANN policy statement on this question. The WG notes that the registrar remains responsible for the accuracy of the data under either the thick or thin model, as the relationship with the registrant remains with the registrar. Stephanie Perrin:Precisely Stephanie Perrin:and I would argue that it is not the job of the registrar to cross examine the registrants to determine accuracy steve metalitz:@Jim, your comment that registrar data is authoritative is contrary to conclusion of the Thick Whois PDP WG. Alex Deacon:Agree accuracy is tied to collection, but if we had a working RDS with authenticated access it would indeed promote "accuracy". Alex Deacon:A purpose of RDS is to promote the accuracy of gTLD registration data. Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):@steve, that doesn't mean they got it right. There's always a chance of data becoming inconsistent when it's maintained in multiple places, and the original collector is not the publisher. Stephanie Perrin:Accuracy is more tied to authenticated registrant data than to access Patrick Lenihan:Do they register but not verify...? Stephanie Perrin:and we are not going to start asking for retinal scans for a domain registration Vicky Sheckler:agree with Alex - need to include concept that a purpose is to promote accurate data Lisa Phifer:Note that this WG's scope is an RDS policy framework, not just the system that might provide access. Policies for collection and maintenance are included in this WG's charter. Fabricio Vayra:+1 Lisa, and that's no mistake because we covered this at length during the EWG steve metalitz:+1 Greg re history Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg re: history. steve metalitz:@Scott, as stated in thick Whois report, authoritativeness is "Not to be confused with accuracy: accurate data is not necessarily authoritative nor is authoritative data necessarily accurate." Jim Galvin (Afilias):my question is what does "promote" mean? Not sure what that means from an implementation point of view. Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):@steve, I'm not talking about accuracy nor confusing the two. Fabricio Vayra:PLainly put, by showing authoritative data you are ensuring the promotion of the most accurate data Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan. See my note below. So keep "promotes accuracy" Greg Aaron:Asd Lisa said, theWG's scope is policy, not just the system that might provide access. Alex Deacon:If someone uses an ID without premission during a registation I would state that it is not accurate. Patrick Lenihan:+1 Stephani - the chain of evidence. Lawrence Olawale-Roberts 2:I still go with the original language Marina Lewis:Stephanie - I don't agree this is an appropriate analogy. while it may be "accurate" as far as the spelling of your name or your address\ Stephanie Perrin:and if I go to court to claim ID theft and get out of criminal charges for the miscreants actions, I will claim the registry data is authoritative Susan Kawaguchi:@Alex I agree with you but I also think we should create a policy about the use of data to prevent that use of ID without permission Marina Lewis:(sorry hit send early)...but it would be INaccurate to say that you registered the domain name when you did not. Alex Deacon:@Susan +1 Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Geoff, should be authorized not authoritative Greg Aaron:so should it be "access to authoritatiave registration data"? Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ Geoff - "authoriative access" i think means something differenet than "authoriztaitve source" of data. Fabricio Vayra:+1 Geoffrey, it should be "access to authoritative registration data" Alex Deacon:+1 Fab and Geoff.... Greg Aaron:Or go back to the original "provide an authoritative source of data" Marina Lewis:We can state that the data is authoritative in the sense that it is the authority or "repository" for this information - we simply include the caveat that the data is only as accurate as the information provided by the domain name registrant. Geoffrey Noakes (Symantec):Maybe chnage "authoritative access to registration data" to "access to reliable registration data" Patrick Lenihan:Hang in there, Chuck! Lisa Phifer:someone's mic is open - echo Jim Galvin (Afilias):+1 to "provide an authoritative source of data" Alex Deacon:Jim - I thnk your mic is hot... Greg Aaron:Oh, we were so close.... Marina Lewis:@Geoffrey - I prefer authoritative to reliable. Authoritative suggests source of the repository of data - not its accuracy or reliability. Patrick Lenihan:It is interesting how one word can affect so much discussion.... Jim Galvin (Afilias):we still have accuracy to deal with too Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Marina on that one. Authoritiative is more precise. Fabricio Vayra:+1 Marina Jim Galvin (Afilias):@marina - +1 Patrick Lenihan:+1 to Each and All! Stephanie Perrin:@Patrick if you think of this process as like drafting a treaty, you are on the right track.....:-) Patrick Lenihan:Thanks, Stephanie! Stephanie Perrin:Noone will be surprised if I say privacy should come first, because it illuminates the other two... Patrick Lenihan:I agree, Stephanie! Lisa Phifer:Recommend that everyone refresh their memory of this Mind Map prior to our meeting steve metalitz:Slide 10: can you explain "iterating in a randomized manner"? Geoffrey Noakes (Symantec):Can someone send me a URL to the deck that is being displayed? Lisa Phifer:Geoffrey, To be posted after this call Geoffrey Noakes (Symantec):Thank you Lisa... Lisa Phifer:It will be posted on meeting page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_L... Marina Lewis:Thanks, Lisa! Marina Lewis:Sorry all, but I need to jump off in a minute to start another call at 10 my time. Alan Greenberg:Either you have explained this perfectly, or we are all lost. I suspect the latter.... Lisa Phifer:Chuck, might it be good to show example on next slide? Vicky Sheckler:in reviewing the possible requirements, I noted there were several possible requriements that went to the same issue. I tried to ensure that where i saw this, the possible requirements had the same codes. we should consider this as well as we group the possible requirements for deliberation Patrick Lenihan:+1 Chuck! Patrick Lenihan:Good thinking, Lisa! Fabricio Vayra:"Access to authoritative data" Beth Allegretti:+1 Fab Lisa Phifer:Authorized access is different than authoritative source of data. One refers to the requestor, the other refers to the data itself. Greg Shatan:Agree with Greg Aaron and/or Fab Greg Aaron:Thank you, Lisa. Marc Anderson:2. A purpose of RDS is to provide information about domain contacts , domain names and name servers for gTLDs, [based on approved policy]. Vicky Sheckler:not dublicates, at least not as currently drafted. agree that authoritative and accurate are important concepts here Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan Lisa Phifer:@Alan, you mean "A purpose of RDS is to provide authoritative information..."? Fabricio Vayra:@Lisa, I think that's what Alan was saying Lisa Phifer:Or "A purpose of RDS is to provide an authoritative source of information..."? Alan Greenberg:@Lisa, that is a fine way of stating it. Authoratative source of data and source of authoratative data Vicky Sheckler:+1 alan Beth Allegretti:+1 Alan Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan Patrick Lenihan:+1 Alan - good thinking! Lisa Phifer:@Alan, that's footnote 2 Sara Bockey:Apologies. I need to drop. Thank you all. Greg Aaron:"authorized" has suddenly parachuted in to muddle things. Vicky Sheckler:i think the accuracy purpose statement is a fine as is Lisa Phifer:Policies can strive for accuracy and then system(s) can be designed to implement policy. Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Promote somehow feels misplaced... Alan Greenberg:@Lisa, correct. Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:in the meaning that I cant see how it can promote Lisa Phifer:Examples include data elements that indicate when contact info was last verified, the level of verification applied, new methods of collecting data to improve accuracy, proactive verification of data stored in a database - just to give a few examples of possible policies and ipmlementation of them. Alex Deacon:s/promote/encourage/ ? or maybe support? Farell Folly (Africa:I would say promote and encourage (both) Fabricio Vayra:defacto, by poting to authoritative data, it promotes accuracy. Vicky Sheckler:A purpose of the registration data directory service is to promote/encourage accuracy in the registration data. Farell Folly (Africa:"Ensures" would fit better but we already know what the cost for that is... Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:No it doesn't ensure anything Vicky Sheckler:we aren't tehre yet, but "accuracy" is not just relevant at initial collection, it may also be relevant when the data is checked or changed, validated, etc. Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:according to accuraacy Vicky Sheckler:"assuming" data is accurate hasn't worked for us so far, so i reject that concept Patrick Lenihan:+1 Vicky! Stephanie Perrin:Just repeating what I put in the chat earlier on this topic Marc Anderson:I agree with what Greg and Jim have just stated. Well put both. Lisa Phifer:We continue to conflate the RDS policy framework with a database that implements part of that policy. Stephanie Perrin:Stephanie Perrin: I think we need to distinguish better between the instrument and the policyStephanie Perrin: We are co-mingling these things at the purpose level all the time, and they do different things Patrick Lenihan:I always agree with you, Stephanie! Marika Konings 2:@Rod - your mic appears open Greg Aaron:This Marika Konings 2:and creates interference Greg Aaron:"Draft Registration Data and Directory Service Statement of Purpose" means we can talk about policy without tying it into a specific technical implementation. Farell Folly (Africa:"set common (accepted) guidelines to enhance interoperability and ipromote accuracy of registration data" Stephanie Perrin:did someone mute me? I have unmuted my line, please unmute me Vicky Sheckler:+1 alex Farell Folly (Africa:@stephanie + 1 Jim Galvin (Afilias):I just don't know what "promote" means but I guess I won't belabor this point right now. None of this is "cast in stone", right? Alex Deacon:happy to consider alternatives to "promote" , encourage, improve, somethingelse.... Lisa Phifer:@Jim, how about "support" or "enhance" Stephanie Perrin:in case I am permanently muted, what I was going to propose is to change this to"a purpose of RDS policy is to promote the accuracy of gTLD registration data. Marika Konings 2:@Stephanie - I've captured the addition of 'policy' on the screen Stephanie Perrin:I like support Lisa Greg Shatan:I think we may need to look at every place we use "RDS" and determine what we mean by it, and whether it should be followed by "policy." Patrick Lenihan:+1 Stephanie! Stephanie Perrin:+1 Greg Stephanie Perrin:THanks Marika Patrick Lenihan:How do I put a green checkmark in\. Stephanie Perrin:agree gives you a green check Marika Konings 2:@Patrick - you can choose the option under the raised hand drop down menu at the top Patrick Lenihan:I agreed but nothing happened. Marika Konings 2:@Patrick - yes, you had a green tick mark next to your name Vicky Sheckler:have to drop off. hope to see most of you in Hyderabad. Marika Konings 2:it is still there if you look at the participant list Patrick Lenihan:Thanks Marika! I am a techie dinosaur! Marika Konings::-) I believe there is an AC intro course available. I'll ask the GNSO secretariat to send it to you. Fabricio Vayra:thanks! Stephanie Perrin:please do. Would make a nice tshirt.... (the mind map that is) Patrick Lenihan: Let's work on this! Alex Deacon:thanks and safe travels... Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all Lawrence Olawale-Roberts:Thanks all and Bye