GoDaddy has made it very clear that their action is unrelated to GDPR, most recently in a message to this list from Sara Bockey (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/2018-February/005543.html). You can choose to believe them or not. Since their action has only affected their bulk access path and not the web interface, it would offer ZERO protection with regard to GDPR, so I am inclined to accept their explanation. A non-EU registrar may choose to protect all customers in addition to EU-based ones, or may choose to follow the complex path (that is sarcasm) of looking at the country the customer supplies, or the country from which the credit card originated. It is purely up to them unless/until ICANN indicates otherwise. We have a difficult enough job dealing with the facts and the very significant uncertainties. Let's not invest alternative facts to confuse us even more. Alan At 17/02/2018 02:12 PM, Raoul Plommer wrote:

Let me rephrase that: a non-European company complies with GDPR because of its European data subjects (could be fined otherwise). Their non-European clients are thus very possbily, indirectly protected because of the GDPR, if the company makes changes to all of its processing of data. I think GoDaddy is already an example of that.

-Raoul

On 17 February 2018 at 21:03, <<mailto:consult@cgomes.com>consult@cgomes.com> wrote:

Thanks Raoul. So you think that a non-European registrar or registry could be fined if it violated the GDPR for a non-European natural person?

Chuck

From: Raoul Plommer [mailto:plommer@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 10:57 AM To: <mailto:consult@cgomes.com>consult@cgomes.com Cc: Ayden Férdeline <<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>icann@ferdeline.com>; Paul Keating <<mailto:paul@law.es>paul@law.es>; RDS PDP WG <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>

Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP

I don't understand how the GDPR could protect non-European natural persons dealing with non-European companies.

Unfortunately, not all laws can be that well enforced, but they are nevertheless in place. In this particular example, I think there's the massive threat of getting fined, that will give the companies the right incentive to comply. Banks and financial services in tax-havens didn't expect to get caught either.

If a non-European company complies with the GDPR because of its European customers, then its non-European are extended the same protections through interfaces and access.

-Raoul

On 17 February 2018 at 20:20, <<mailto:consult@cgomes.com>consult@cgomes.com> wrote:

As one who is trying to understand the GDPR, the key condition for these recitals is ‘processed within the legal boundaries of the European Union’.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:27 PM To: Paul Keating <<mailto:paul@law.es>paul@law.es>

Cc: RDS PDP WG <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP

I interpret the GDPR as applying to anyone, residing anywhere, regardless of his or her citizenship, whose data is processed within the legal boundaries of the European Union.

<http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/recital-2-GDPR.htm>Recital 2 (emphasis added) states: "The principles of, and rules on the protection of natural persons with regard to the processing of their personal data should, whatever their nationality or residence, respect their fundamental rights and freedoms, in particular their right to the protection of personal data."

<http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/recital-4-GDPR.htm>Recital 4 (emphasis added) states: "The processing of personal data should be designed to serve mankind."

<http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/recital-14-GDPR.htm>Recital 14 (emphasis added) states: "The protection afforded by this Regulation should apply to natural persons, whatever their nationality or place of residence, in relation to the processing of their personal data."

Ayden

-------- Original Message --------

On 16 February 2018 9:07 PM, Paul Keating <<mailto:paul@law.es>paul@law.es> wrote:

John,

Given that the GDPR only applies to private data of private individuals residing in the EU, i dount you will ever see such a statement.

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Feb 2018, at 21:02, John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote:

Ha, thanks Michele, and sorry for the timing! (Hope your answer was written over a bottle of red wine, preferably an Oregon pinot.)

Let me clarify my question, and feel free to defer the answer if next week is better. I'm asking if registrars have received specific guidance, or can point to anything specific in the GDPR or any written document, indicating that you have to provide GDPR protections to all of your customers, even if they aren't in scope. In other words, I'm looking for a very clear statement along these lines from a DPA:

As an EU company, even if your customer is a natural person in the US, you must provide them the same rights under the GDPR that an EU natural person would receive. Failure to do so is non-compliant with the GDPR.

Obviously, the exact wording my differ, but I'm trying to challenge your statement that "As an Irish company all our clients have to be handled under GDPR." If that's true as a legal requirement, I think it's important for the security/compliance community to be aware of that...if it's not, perhaps that opens up some more granular approaches that can satisfy both sides.

John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript

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On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>michele@blacknight.com> wrote:

John

Of course you would wait until a Friday evening to ask me this ..

Anyway ..

As a company in the EU we have to do everything through the lens of GDPR.

That does not mean that a company will get the same treatment as a private individual.

What it does mean is that we (and other EU based registrars and registries) have to consider whether or not there is personal information in the currently public whois information. I’m not 100% sure yet what the best way of dealing with that is. While we can ask new clients things during signup, it’s going to be significantly harder to get a response from the existing ones.

Regards

Michele

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

<https://www.blacknight.com>https://www.blacknight.com

https://blacknight.blog /

<http://ceo.hosting/>http://ceo.hosting/

Intl. <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>+353 (0) 59 9183072

Direct Dial: <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>+353 (0)59 9183090

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty

Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265

,Ireland Company No.: 370845

From: John Horton <<mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com>john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 16 February 2018 at 19:28 To: Michele Neylon <<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>michele@blacknight.com> Cc: "<mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se" <<mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se>, RDS PDP WG <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP

Michele,

Let me dig in a bit on one question there -- actually curious about this. You indicated "As an Irish company all our clients have to be handled under GDPR." So, for example, let's say that I transferred my company's domain name (obviously, we're a legal person, and we're domiciled in the US and registered here) to Blacknight. I think you'd agree we're not the intended beneficiary of the GDPR. My specific question for you is: Is there written guidance somewhere indicating that you do, in fact, have to provide me GDPR protections? That your policies have to apply to me? If there's some language out there specifically indicating that, it would be helpful to see that. I didn't see that in the Hamilton memo (perhaps I'm missing it) nor in the text of the GDPR (but again, perhaps I'm missing it). Let me know if my question doesn't make sense.

John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript

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On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>michele@blacknight.com> wrote:

John

There are two distinct discussions here which seem to be getting mixed together.

During the proxy / privacy discussion some people wanted there to be a distinction between who could avail of proxy / privacy services. Some wanted a prohibition on letting “commercial” have the ability to use proxy / privacy.

The discussions here and elsewhere around collection and publication of data in light of GDPR are very different.

Nobody is disputing that there is a distinction between private individuals and corporations when it comes to GDPR. However there are risks associated with the processing of personal information, which may be tied into corporate information. And the “commercial” vs “non-commercial” distinction won’t work.

Where there is a clear difference is between treatment of registrants based on geography.

As an Irish company all our clients have to be handled under GDPR. The same would be true of any other provider based in the EU.

I cannot speak to nor will I get involved in debates around what various non-EU based operators may currently be doing or plan to do in the future – there are enough oof them on this list who can do so more ably than I and without my help.

Regards

Michele

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

<https://www.blacknight.com>https://www.blacknight.com

https://blacknight.blog /

<http://ceo.hosting/>http://ceo.hosting/

Intl. <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>+353 (0) 59 9183072

Direct Dial: <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>+353 (0)59 9183090

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty

Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265

,Ireland Company No.: 370845

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Reply-To: John Horton <<mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com>john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 16 February 2018 at 18:54 To: "<mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se" <<mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se> Cc: RDS PDP WG <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP

I think quite a bit in this WG and certainly in the prior privacy/proxy PDP, and absolutely what we're seeing with GoDaddy. To make sure I'm being clear about what I mean, GoDaddy isn't only redacting Whois information (via Port 43) where it's an EU natural citizen or natural resident. The information is being redacted for....everyone. All registrants. There's simply no justification for that.

I predict you'd see (I'm not speaking for anyone here, just me) a real willingness on the security and compliance community's part to compromise and support a system where, IF a registrant is an EU natural person (yes, I know we need to define it accurately -- citizen, resident, we can get granular later) then...hey, let's set up a system in involving redaction of some fields, access to those fields in legitimate cases, etc. I want to support registrars' compliance with the GDPR. But we're seeing the registrar community say: We want to apply this globally. To all domain name registrations. Doesn't matter if the registrant is the intended beneficiary of the new law, or in scope, or not. We're going to just change global policy.

I think that viewpoint has been pretty repeatedly represented in this working group, but I'd love to hear from registrars that would support a more targeted solution where only the intended beneficiaries of the GDPR (that is, in-scope registrants) are covered under the policy.

John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript

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On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se <<mailto:benny@nordreg.se>benny@nordreg.se> wrote:

Please refer to where registrars have been unwilling to explore this option?

-- Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen

Benny Samuelsen Registry Manager - Domainexpert

Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar IANA-ID: 638 Phone: <tel:%2B46.42197000>+46.42197000 Direct: <tel:%2B47.32260201>+47.32260201 Mobile: <tel:%2B47.40410200>+47.40410200

...

On 16 Feb 2018, at 19:38, John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote:

Just imagine how much of all of this could be avoided if registrars were willing to agree to a commercial/individual distinction.

John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript

Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Blog | Newsletter

...

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:33 AM, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote: GDPR taken to its logical extreme very well could require us to abandon IP reputation and to emptying our firewalls. I mean, no consumer authorized me to process their IP just by attacking me, right?

Privacy absolutism is not the answer unless you basically want to mandate the internet backbone be converted to tor.

-- John Bambenek

On Feb 16, 2018, at 06:09, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>michele@blacknight.com> wrote:

...

It’s an interesting read, but it has several flaws.

It refers to registrars solely and ignores registries.

It also makes it sound like issues around whois are “new”, which we all know isn’t true.

The comments about IP addresses make it sound like it’s a theoretical concern, yet there is case law eg:

<https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/european-court-of-justice-rules-ip-addresses-are-personal-data-1.2835704>https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/european-court-of-justice-rules-ip-addresses-are-personal-data-1.2835704

...

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

<https://www.blacknight.com/>https://www.blacknight.com/

http://blacknight.blog/

Intl. <tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>+353 (0) 59 9183072

Direct Dial: <tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>+353 (0)59 9183090

Personal blog: <https://michele.blog/>https://michele.blog/

Some thoughts: <https://ceo.hosting/>https://ceo.hosting/

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit

12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty

...

Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg

<<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Dotzero <<mailto:dotzero@gmail.com>dotzero@gmail.com>

...

Date: Friday 16 February 2018 at 00:07 To: RDS PDP WG <<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP

<https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/02/new-eu-privacy-law-may-weaken-security/>https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/02/new-eu-privacy-law-may-weaken-security/

...

Michael Hammer

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