I am pleased to see that the rhetoric on the WG list has calmed down. I hope it is not just because people are offline while traveling. As chair of the WG I am fully cognizant of the fact that the topic we are discussing is very contentious. While we all realize that people have differing opinions on this subject, I want to caution everyone to remain respectful, to avoid personal attacks on individuals or organizations and to try to avoid using terms that some may find offensive. I understand that what is offensive to one person may not be to someone else but suggest that we try to error on the side of caution as much as possible. On the other hand, I also ask everyone to try to give others the benefit of doubt if possible, realizing that we come from many different cultures and backgrounds. Finally, if anyone finds something offensive, please inform the offender in private first if you are comfortable with that. If you are not comfortable doing that, then by all means inform the leadership team. I can only speak for myself on this but I am guilty of not readily recognizing offensive terms because I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and because I often read messages too quickly, so I may need a nudge. I thank those of you have given me that nudge. I am looking forward to seeing many of you in Helsinki. Chuck
Chuck as a chairman you are doing a great job. I am not that aged but 5 years ago I was WG chair and technical director of the Africa Endeavour program of US africom in Stuttgart. There were only 37 nations involved and not many business conflicts as we are facing here in ICANN but I can assure you these were 4 difficult years for me in reaching consensus or to being approved by everyone : it is simply impossible. However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution. Best Regards --ff-- Mail sent from my mobile phone. Excuse for brievety. Le 23 juin 2016 21:54, "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com> a écrit :
I am pleased to see that the rhetoric on the WG list has calmed down. I hope it is not just because people are offline while traveling.
As chair of the WG I am fully cognizant of the fact that the topic we are discussing is very contentious. While we all realize that people have differing opinions on this subject, I want to caution everyone to remain respectful, to avoid personal attacks on individuals or organizations and to try to avoid using terms that some may find offensive. I understand that what is offensive to one person may not be to someone else but suggest that we try to error on the side of caution as much as possible. On the other hand, I also ask everyone to try to give others the benefit of doubt if possible, realizing that we come from many different cultures and backgrounds.
Finally, if anyone finds something offensive, please inform the offender in private first if you are comfortable with that. If you are not comfortable doing that, then by all means inform the leadership team. I can only speak for myself on this but I am guilty of not readily recognizing offensive terms because I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and because I often read messages too quickly, so I may need a nudge. I thank those of you have given me that nudge.
I am looking forward to seeing many of you in Helsinki.
Chuck
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On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com> wrote:
However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution.
+1 I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years! The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status. The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but...... -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
I don't think Chuck was objecting to divergence or disagreements in opinions or matters of substance in any way. Rather, Chuck was remarking on an elevated level of rhetoric and potentially offensive expression apparent on the list. This tends to cloud rather than clarify areas of substantive disagreement, and to slow down rather than speed up the process of moving toward consensus. My father used to refer to this as "generating more heat than light." In my view, we should strive to disagree without being disagreeable, and seek to understand other views rather than to dismiss than out of hand (e.g., because an email response doesn't come back fast enough to suit). That doesn't mean we have to treat each other with kid gloves; rather, there is a balance to be struck. It's Chuck's role to notice when we are out of balance, and to restore that balance. I fully support Chuck's intervention, both in substance and in timing. Greg On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com> wrote:
However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution.
+1
I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years!
The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status.
The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but......
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Greg is correct. We must be able to disagree constructively if we expect to do our job. And we also need to try to stay on task or we will find ourselves being very ineffective. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote: I don't think Chuck was objecting to divergence or disagreements in opinions or matters of substance in any way. Rather, Chuck was remarking on an elevated level of rhetoric and potentially offensive expression apparent on the list. This tends to cloud rather than clarify areas of substantive disagreement, and to slow down rather than speed up the process of moving toward consensus. My father used to refer to this as "generating more heat than light." In my view, we should strive to disagree without being disagreeable, and seek to understand other views rather than to dismiss than out of hand (e.g., because an email response doesn't come back fast enough to suit). That doesn't mean we have to treat each other with kid gloves; rather, there is a balance to be struck. It's Chuck's role to notice when we are out of balance, and to restore that balance. I fully support Chuck's intervention, both in substance and in timing. Greg On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com<mailto:farellfolly@gmail.com>> wrote: However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution. +1 I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years! The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status. The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but...... -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799<tel:876-818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I agree, due deference to context and intent. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Greg is correct. We must be able to disagree constructively if we expect to do our job. And we also need to try to stay on task or we will find ourselves being very ineffective.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think Chuck was objecting to divergence or disagreements in opinions or matters of substance in any way. Rather, Chuck was remarking on an elevated level of rhetoric and potentially offensive expression apparent on the list. This tends to cloud rather than clarify areas of substantive disagreement, and to slow down rather than speed up the process of moving toward consensus.
My father used to refer to this as "generating more heat than light." In my view, we should strive to disagree without being disagreeable, and seek to understand other views rather than to dismiss than out of hand (e.g., because an email response doesn't come back fast enough to suit). That doesn't mean we have to treat each other with kid gloves; rather, there is a balance to be struck. It's Chuck's role to notice when we are out of balance, and to restore that balance. I fully support Chuck's intervention, both in substance and in timing.
Greg
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com
wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com> wrote:
However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution.
+1
I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years!
The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status.
The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but......
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Ok I disagree constructively. With the thread for mutual admiration, whose right and whose saying wrong is getting too much. Let's keep the thread limited to substantial discussion on the topic happening. Mails ping constantly and what u read is philosophical. Let's do it but in a separate what's app group or something like that. Apologies in advance for hurting anyone's sentiments but let's get on with it. Best regards & respects to all, -VA Sent from my mobile device. Typos regretted.
On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:27 AM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree, due deference to context and intent.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Greg is correct. We must be able to disagree constructively if we expect to do our job. And we also need to try to stay on task or we will find ourselves being very ineffective.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think Chuck was objecting to divergence or disagreements in opinions or matters of substance in any way. Rather, Chuck was remarking on an elevated level of rhetoric and potentially offensive expression apparent on the list. This tends to cloud rather than clarify areas of substantive disagreement, and to slow down rather than speed up the process of moving toward consensus.
My father used to refer to this as "generating more heat than light." In my view, we should strive to disagree without being disagreeable, and seek to understand other views rather than to dismiss than out of hand (e.g., because an email response doesn't come back fast enough to suit). That doesn't mean we have to treat each other with kid gloves; rather, there is a balance to be struck. It's Chuck's role to notice when we are out of balance, and to restore that balance. I fully support Chuck's intervention, both in substance and in timing.
Greg
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com> wrote: However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement and implement a sustainable solution.
+1
I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years!
The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status.
The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but......
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Hi all Let's move forwards guys. Warm regards Le 7 juil. 2016 23:58, "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> a écrit :
I agree, due deference to context and intent.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Greg is correct. We must be able to disagree constructively if we expect
to do our job. And we also need to try to stay on task or we will find ourselves being very ineffective.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think Chuck was objecting to divergence or disagreements in
opinions or matters of substance in any way. Rather, Chuck was remarking on an elevated level of rhetoric and potentially offensive expression apparent on the list. This tends to cloud rather than clarify areas of substantive disagreement, and to slow down rather than speed up the process of moving toward consensus.
My father used to refer to this as "generating more heat than light."
In my view, we should strive to disagree without being disagreeable, and seek to understand other views rather than to dismiss than out of hand (e.g., because an email response doesn't come back fast enough to suit). That doesn't mean we have to treat each other with kid gloves; rather, there is a balance to be struck. It's Chuck's role to notice when we are out of balance, and to restore that balance. I fully support Chuck's intervention, both in substance and in timing.
Greg
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Carlton Samuels <
carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Farell Folly <farellfolly@gmail.com>
wrote:
However, divergence is sometimes needed to make a better agreement
and implement a sustainable solution.
+1
I took a vacation. Seeing I have always invested my usual 3 weeks of vacation time to ICANN endeavours, this is the first time in almost 10 years!
The narrative we're supposed to credit says there are no agendas in an ICANN/GNSO PDP WG. I generously grant that opinion status.
The airing of disagreements, even to the point of what diplomats term 'a full and frank expression of views', sooner rather than later, is the best approach for negotiating consensus. Might sound counterintuitive at first blush but......
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
participants (6)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Farell Folly -
Gomes, Chuck -
Greg Shatan -
Group CEO-Vaibhav Aggarwal -
Olévié Kouami