international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I would also like to mention that data in the WHOIS has never to my knowledge been "allowed" to be data mined. The data in whois should be specifically used in regards the domain name or used in referencing such. I would also like to think (as we do) that if a local jurisdiction law enforcement officer picked up the phone or sent us an email requesting further information it would be provided - as I say, I know we do. Kind regards, Chris From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com> To: "Greg Aaron" <gca@icginc.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Thursday, 2 March, 2017 19:54:06 Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Chris, If I’ve learned anything from this group, it’s that “used in regards to the domain name or used in referencing such” may in fact be open to interpretation. Kiran From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Chris Pelling Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:27 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I would also like to mention that data in the WHOIS has never to my knowledge been "allowed" to be data mined. The data in whois should be specifically used in regards the domain name or used in referencing such. I would also like to think (as we do) that if a local jurisdiction law enforcement officer picked up the phone or sent us an email requesting further information it would be provided - as I say, I know we do. Kind regards, Chris ________________________________ From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> To: "Greg Aaron" <gca@icginc.com<mailto:gca@icginc.com>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Thursday, 2 March, 2017 19:54:06 Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com<mailto:gca@icginc.com>> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org%3chttp:/www.iacp.org>>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Hi Kiran, Isn't that the truth! See you hopefully at the F2F :) Kind regards, Chris From: "Kiran Malancharuvil" <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com> To: "Chris Pelling" <chris@netearth.net>, "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Thursday, 2 March, 2017 20:49:11 Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Chris, If I’ve learned anything from this group, it’s that “used in regards to the domain name or used in referencing such” may in fact be open to interpretation. Kiran From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Chris Pelling Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:27 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I would also like to mention that data in the WHOIS has never to my knowledge been "allowed" to be data mined. The data in whois should be specifically used in regards the domain name or used in referencing such. I would also like to think (as we do) that if a local jurisdiction law enforcement officer picked up the phone or sent us an email requesting further information it would be provided - as I say, I know we do. Kind regards, Chris From: "Gomes, Chuck" < cgomes@verisign.com > To: "Greg Aaron" < gca@icginc.com > Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" < gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Sent: Thursday, 2 March, 2017 19:54:06 Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron < gca@icginc.com > wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP ( http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org >) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Maxim, It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so. INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views. The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote: Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents. John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript *Follow LegitScript*: LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | *Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com>* | Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
*From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Maxim Alzoba *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is
highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
(issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
- First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. - Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 <(415)%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <(215)%20858-2257>
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 <(613)%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852 <(416)%20816-2852>
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Agree with John. They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents. John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...] Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts> [https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png][https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ] On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim, It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so. INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views. The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote: Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138<tel:(415)%20419-9138> (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:(215)%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429<tel:(613)%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852<tel:(416)%20816-2852> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I also agree with John and Michele - They like the rest of us, have an opinion. As john mentioned it makes sense to express that opinion as a coordinated group instead of individually. But if this group would rather that Global LEA expressed there views as agencies/Police services etc instead of through Europol, Interpol, IACP and similar organisations am sure they can if we let them know. Richard Leaning External Relations RIPE NCC
On 3 Mar 2017, at 16:24, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/> http://blacknight.blog/ <http://blacknight.blog/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://michele.blog/> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com <mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com>> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript
Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com/> | Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck <> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net <mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 <tel:(415)%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: > > The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. > > The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." > > Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." > > > The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." > > > > The document is attached, and also at: > http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> > > I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference > materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) > > > Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and > Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy > protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to > facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: > Communications and Technology Committee > CTC.06.t16 > WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted > resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology > Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; > and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is > one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in > identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, > the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when > conducting multiagency international investigations, including > delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and > WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet > is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. > ********************************** > Greg Aaron > Vice-President, Product Management > iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/> > mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:(215)%20858-2257> > ********************************** > The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. > > <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 <tel:(613)%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852 <tel:(416)%20816-2852> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
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Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement. Best, Volker Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
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Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
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*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com> *Date: *Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript
*Follow****Legit**Script*: LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | _Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com>_ |Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Maxim Alzoba *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is
highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
(issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net <mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 <tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
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<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows: The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger. Sam L. On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com> *Date: *Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript
*Follow****Legit**Script*: LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | _Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com>_ |Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Maxim Alzoba *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is
highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
(issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net <mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 <tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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------------------------------------------------
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邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 <tel:%28613%29%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852 <tel:%28416%29%20816-2852>
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
Hi Sam, I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it? I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco:
Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
Sam L.
On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com> *Date: *Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript
*Follow****Legit**Script*: LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | _Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com>_ |Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Maxim Alzoba *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is
highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
(issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net <mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 <tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/>
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email:Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog:https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group. Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: Hi Sam, I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it? I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco: Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows: The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger. Sam L. On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote: Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement. Best, Volker Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: Agree with John. They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents. John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...] Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts> [https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png][https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ] On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim, It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so. INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views. The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote: Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429<tel:%28613%29%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852<tel:%28416%29%20816-2852> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
RE: submissions by interested parties Knowing who sent the message helps with why they sent it, but we still have to assess content on its merit for policy. We can learn even when rejecting (or not rejecting) cybercriminal or torrent site operator comments, should they offer them. Sam L. On 3/6/2017 11:15 AM, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote:
I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group.
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
Hi Sam,
I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco: Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
Sam L.
On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...]
Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429<tel:%28613%29%20476-0429> cell: +1 416-816-2852<tel:%28416%29%20816-2852> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
Hi Kiran, I wonder why this is even an issue. Don't you look at the source when you receive new information? If someone quotes Breitbart as source, I would assume that reasonable people would attach a lot less credibility to a statement than if it is propagated through more standard sources. So saying the source and potentially the agenda of the source does not enter into the understanding of a statement and its intent seems rather incredible. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:15 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil:
I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group.
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
Hi Sam,
I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco: Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
Sam L.
On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...]
Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
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<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Ethos and legitimacy are not the same thing Volker. No one is questioning their legitimacy. Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Hi Kiran,
I wonder why this is even an issue. Don't you look at the source when you receive new information? If someone quotes Breitbart as source, I would assume that reasonable people would attach a lot less credibility to a statement than if it is propagated through more standard sources. So saying the source and potentially the agenda of the source does not enter into the understanding of a statement and its intent seems rather incredible.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:15 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil: I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group.
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
Hi Sam,
I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco: Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
Sam L.
On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...]
Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
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<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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I did not use that word, actually. When looking at an argument, personally, I find it very helpful to see who made it, as sometimes that helps understanding the argument and the motivation behind it. As an example, if it is someones business to harvest, collate and sell whois data and that entity is pushing for complete open access without restrictions and rules, I know where it is coming from when it is making that recommendation. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:32 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil:
Ethos and legitimacy are not the same thing Volker. No one is questioning their legitimacy.
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Hi Kiran,
I wonder why this is even an issue. Don't you look at the source when you receive new information? If someone quotes Breitbart as source, I would assume that reasonable people would attach a lot less credibility to a statement than if it is propagated through more standard sources. So saying the source and potentially the agenda of the source does not enter into the understanding of a statement and its intent seems rather incredible.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:15 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil: I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group.
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
Hi Sam,
I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco: Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data. They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access. Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own. The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations. Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
Sam L.
On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: Agree with John.
They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
John Horton President and CEO, LegitScript [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&r...]
Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80> skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
<cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect,
it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
(it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at:
http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
conducting multiagency international investigations, including
delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
mobile: +1.215.858.2257<tel:%28215%29%20858-2257>
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<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why. One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder. A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder. Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology. The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources. Best regards, A [1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not? Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender. I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators". Very interesting. By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away. More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
I was outlining an opposite extreme, not comparing. As to the percentage of fact in the statement, I cannot comment, but I doubt that a "restriction of easy fluid access" to registration data would "severely cripple or eliminate the ability" of LEAs "to conduct investigation in a timely manner". Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:45 schrieb allison nixon:
Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators".
Very interesting.
By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away.
More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Well, nobody knows how access would be regulated and structured since it hasnt been decided yet. Also, it's not hyperbole or fearmongering, it's correct. WHOIS is used in a large number of systems being used on a daily basis. More people who use these systems should speak up in this group, because the people here don't seem to know how the legitimate use of WHOIS is structured. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I was outlining an opposite extreme, not comparing.
As to the percentage of fact in the statement, I cannot comment, but I doubt that a "restriction of easy fluid access" to registration data would "severely cripple or eliminate the ability" of LEAs "to conduct investigation in a timely manner".
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:45 schrieb allison nixon:
Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators".
Very interesting.
By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away.
More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann < vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
Whether a particular use is legitimate or not may depend on the viewpoint. I do not doubt there is a lot of legitimate use of the data. Whether the publication of the data is legitimate is another issue though. And yes, no one yet knows how a future system would look and work, that was kind of my point. LEAs, by making this statement at this time either know more than we do or are using hyperbole to further their agenda. Which is completely legitimate, but should be understood as such. Hence my argument that the source matters when looking at the argument. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 18:12 schrieb allison nixon:
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Well, nobody knows how access would be regulated and structured since it hasnt been decided yet. Also, it's not hyperbole or fearmongering, it's correct. WHOIS is used in a large number of systems being used on a daily basis. More people who use these systems should speak up in this group, because the people here don't seem to know how the legitimate use of WHOIS is structured.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
I was outlining an opposite extreme, not comparing.
As to the percentage of fact in the statement, I cannot comment, but I doubt that a "restriction of easy fluid access" to registration data would "severely cripple or eliminate the ability" of LEAs "to conduct investigation in a timely manner".
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:45 schrieb allison nixon:
Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators".
Very interesting.
By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away.
More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I think that an argument can be judged on its merits regardless of it’s source. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 12:37 PM To: allison nixon <elsakoo@gmail.com> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Whether a particular use is legitimate or not may depend on the viewpoint. I do not doubt there is a lot of legitimate use of the data. Whether the publication of the data is legitimate is another issue though. And yes, no one yet knows how a future system would look and work, that was kind of my point. LEAs, by making this statement at this time either know more than we do or are using hyperbole to further their agenda. Which is completely legitimate, but should be understood as such. Hence my argument that the source matters when looking at the argument. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 18:12 schrieb allison nixon:
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Well, nobody knows how access would be regulated and structured since it hasnt been decided yet. Also, it's not hyperbole or fearmongering, it's correct. WHOIS is used in a large number of systems being used on a daily basis. More people who use these systems should speak up in this group, because the people here don't seem to know how the legitimate use of WHOIS is structured. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: I was outlining an opposite extreme, not comparing. As to the percentage of fact in the statement, I cannot comment, but I doubt that a "restriction of easy fluid access" to registration data would "severely cripple or eliminate the ability" of LEAs "to conduct investigation in a timely manner". Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured. Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:45 schrieb allison nixon: Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators". Very interesting. By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away. More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not? Best, Volker Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan: On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote: the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it? I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender. I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why. One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder. A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder. Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology. The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources. Best regards, A [1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. -- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
This is an excellent point that I think we can agree on. We absolutely should consider the entities making suggestions and how their interests may be motivating their commentary. For instance, I think discussing that some entities wishing to limit data flow also have a financial incentive to stymie investigators and thus maximize their revenue stream is one that needs further examination. J Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 11:37, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Whether a particular use is legitimate or not may depend on the viewpoint. I do not doubt there is a lot of legitimate use of the data. Whether the publication of the data is legitimate is another issue though.
And yes, no one yet knows how a future system would look and work, that was kind of my point. LEAs, by making this statement at this time either know more than we do or are using hyperbole to further their agenda. Which is completely legitimate, but should be understood as such. Hence my argument that the source matters when looking at the argument. Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 18:12 schrieb allison nixon:
Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured.
Well, nobody knows how access would be regulated and structured since it hasnt been decided yet. Also, it's not hyperbole or fearmongering, it's correct. WHOIS is used in a large number of systems being used on a daily basis. More people who use these systems should speak up in this group, because the people here don't seem to know how the legitimate use of WHOIS is structured.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I was outlining an opposite extreme, not comparing. As to the percentage of fact in the statement, I cannot comment, but I doubt that a "restriction of easy fluid access" to registration data would "severely cripple or eliminate the ability" of LEAs "to conduct investigation in a timely manner". Limit or impede? Probably, but cripple and eliminate? Pure hyperbole and fearmongering, especially as they do not even know how access would be regulated and structured. Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:45 schrieb allison nixon: Interesting that some here consider law enforcement to be on the same tier of legitimacy as "cybercriminals and torrent site operators".
Very interesting.
By the way, IACP's statement is 100% factual with regard to how WHOIS is used and the harms that will happen when it is taken away.
More investigators need to join this group, which badly needs some doses of reality.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
So why don't ICANN strip the identity from the sender from statements to a working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
Best,
Volker
Am 06.03.2017 um 17:20 schrieb Andrew Sullivan: > On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote: > the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and > torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the > message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it? > > I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the > message from the sender. I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why.
One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder.
A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder.
Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology.
The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources.
Best regards,
A
[1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
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Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
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Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
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On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 05:37:59PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
No. I think that sort of slippery-slope argument isn't terribly helpful, so I'm not going to pursue this line further. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
+1. No longer a helpful conversation. Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 05:37:59PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote: working group? Anonymous statements would be the logical consequence of only looking at the argument and not at the source, would it not?
No. I think that sort of slippery-slope argument isn't terribly helpful, so I'm not going to pursue this line further.
A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I definitely agree with Andrew that we need to look at arguments, regardless of the source. When I review the comments submitted in our poles, I look at the arguments made without looking at who submitted them. I usually only look at the source if I need to follow-up with whoever made the comment. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:21 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 04:33:02PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the above premise, and I think it's important to make clear why. One model of ICANN policy making is that it simply balances among interests. The interests are (1) those that show up and (2) those that we somehow decide are "legitimate". The problem with this model is that it is deeply political. The interests who "show up" are the ones who can get funding, and there is incentive to try to delegitimize some other interest. There is a basis for interpreting ICANN's approach this way, because of the constituency model and the way that people identify as part of this or that group. In this model, there is no reason for a given stakeholder or stakeholder group should in any way acknowledge or argue for positions outside their parochial concern, because if someone else wants that issue to be considered he or she should similarly attempt to participate. One advantage of this model is that it is familiar from other kinds of political environments: it emphasises the "stakeholder" part of multi-stakeholder. A second model of ICANN policy making is that it attempts to bring in as many different kinds of stakeholders as possible, not because these are somehow representative of a position (the legitimacy of which is to be determined), but because "more eyeballs make all bugs shallow". That is, a diversity of views allows maximal exposure of the issues with respect to a give policy problem, and so it is better to have multiple kinds of viewpoints. Under this view, everyone should strive to ensure that different viewpoints are taken into account, even if it is only so as to say that a given view was taken into account but the arguments for it were on balance not as strong as alternatives. Constituencies under this view are a useful and convenient way to do some early filtering, so that people with common sets of interests can explore those common interests in depth without everyone in the world needing to participate in every discussion. It is by definition not possible to delegitimize a particular interest, though it is possible to show that the arguments for that interest are on balance to be rejected. An advantage of this model is that it discourages political maneuvers in favour of greater discursive policy discussion: it emphasises the "multi" part of multi-stakeholder. Now, I don't really think that these are either mutually exclusive options; neither do I think that we ever get out of either stance completely. But the suggestion that we have to take the source into consideration with the argument bothers me greatly. If the New National-Socialist Stalinist Maoist Khmer Rouge and Social Credit Party of Canada[1] came along and made an argument that certain kinds of personally-identifying information in the RDS had negative effects, I would expect us to take that argument seriously regardless of the odiousness of the political stripe we found in their ideology. The position of the Chiefs of Police interest group was that the current prevailing policy regime should remain in place, because it is convenient for them. Some of the convenience struck me as possibly compelling and some of it less so. There was literally no new information in their statement, however: every single one of those arguments is already exposed in the materials we have amassed. And no, I do not think that we should take the position more or less seriously because it comes from a law enforcement lobby group -- any more than I'd think that if it came from the FBI, the EFF, the Regiment of Trademark Fencibles, or the Anti-Sony Collective of Evil Genius File Sharers[2]. I'd prefer instead that we look at the arguments, not their sources. Best regards, A [1] Not an actual political party in Canada. [2] Not all of these lobbies are real. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Hello Chuck, I meant that the opinion should be considered, but there should be made a note about difference between actual LEAs and associations, where those LEAs are not represented on behalf of those LEAs. Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 18:49, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck <> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net <mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
Thanks for clarifying Maxim. Chuck From: Maxim Alzoba [mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 5:57 AM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, I meant that the opinion should be considered, but there should be made a note about difference between actual LEAs and associations, where those LEAs are not represented on behalf of those LEAs. Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 18:49, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: Maxim, It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so. INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views. The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote: Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Chuck! Do you assume that Law Enforcement is done primarily by Governments, or by individual professionals? Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 Skype: carlos.raulg Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica) On 3 Mar 2017, at 9:49, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Maxim,
It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is
highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
(issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580
skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
* First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
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Carlos, I would assume by Governments in most if not all cases but I don’t think that means we should not consider input from non-governmental organizations. Chuck From: Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez G. [mailto:crg@isoc-cr.org] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Chuck! Do you assume that Law Enforcement is done primarily by Governments, or by individual professionals? Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 Skype: carlos.raulg Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica) On 3 Mar 2017, at 9:49, Gomes, Chuck wrote: Maxim, It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields. We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so. INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views. The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello All, I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement. Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants. As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important). Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol. The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit. So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations. One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information. P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net<mailto:sam@lanfranco.net>> wrote: Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS. I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. * First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. * Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that? Sam Lanfranco (NPOC) On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Why are their opinions being discounted then? Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hi Chuck, Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group? Thanks, Kiran -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Hello Chuck, with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO). Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow) On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote: Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community." Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner." The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com<https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Thanks Maxim for your excellent comment on the dangers of dealing with “individual” Law Enforcement Professionals. Most Law Enforcement Professionals work for Governments, I’d rather see them represented in the GAC as Observers under their more or less 100 years old organization named Interpol, but not as an independent association of individuals. (https://gacweb.icann.org/display/gacweb/GAC+Observers) Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 Skype: carlos.raulg Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica) On 3 Mar 2017, at 9:34, Maxim Alzoba wrote:
Hello All,
I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
Granting access to data to members of the association is highly questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction) we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS. The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms. First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest. Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels. Is there more to it than that?
Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: m.alzoba@gmail.com <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Why are their opinions being discounted then?
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com <mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com> <mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> <mailto:gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org> <http://www.iacp.org/>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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-- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca <mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca> Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com <https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852 _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Associations are welcome to participate. But Maxim is making the point that AICP is not, itself, a law enforcement organisation, or even a group of law enforcement organisations. It is an association of people who work for law enforcement organisations, which is a significant difference, and changes the way its input should be considered significantly, a difference I think most of us understand.. It certainly should be taken into account - working groups from time to time receive requests from groups of people who would like ICANN to make their jobs easier. or would like to retain the status quo, and such requests are useful input to any working group, that we can consider as one factor among many. David
On 2 Mar 2017, at 9:47 pm, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Name s and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I think it is important to keep in mind that this association is apparently made of LEAs. I suspect that when we consider gated access, the role of the association would be very different than the roll of its individual members, which are LEAs. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: David Cake [mailto:dave@davecake.net] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 7:54 PM To: Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com> Cc: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba@gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Associations are welcome to participate. But Maxim is making the point that AICP is not, itself, a law enforcement organisation, or even a group of law enforcement organisations. It is an association of people who work for law enforcement organisations, which is a significant difference, and changes the way its input should be considered significantly, a difference I think most of us understand.. It certainly should be taken into account - working groups from time to time receive requests from groups of people who would like ICANN to make their jobs easier. or would like to retain the status quo, and such requests are useful input to any working group, that we can consider as one factor among many. David
On 2 Mar 2017, at 9:47 pm, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
Thanks,
Kiran
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Hello Chuck,
with all due respect, it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two. (it is not an IGO).
Sincerely Yours,
Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID
m. +7 916 6761580 skype oldfrogger
Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Name s and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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While there is nothing wrong with understanding why any constituency with enough interest in ICANN’s work might want to submit comments, there are two things to remember here. • First, comments need to be assessed on their merit, independent of their source. • Second, there are thousands of such constituency groups out there. As awareness around IC issues grows ICANN will likely hear from more of them. ICANN’s multistakeholder processes would be on a very slippery slope if it discredited or dismissed them, independent of their comments, without serious due cause. In Washington D.C. there are normally between 10 and 15 thousand registered lobbyists engaging the U.S. governance process. Those interests have the resources to hire lobbyists. There are additional hundreds of thousands who advocate on their own behalf, much as has been done by this association of Chiefs of Police. Consider the number of advocate groups who will turn up with comments, and possible engagement in ICANN policy discussions, when the stakes of Internet Governance are better understood by more residents of the Internet ecosystem. How to accommodate that is the challenge at hand, not how to discredit or dismiss them. Sam Lanfranco -- ------------------------------------------------ "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured in an unjust state" -Confucius 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也 ------------------------------------------------ Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar) Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3 email: Lanfran@Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
Thanks, Chuck. I think it is important that we as a WG understand that gated access could be a recommendation. But it does not single out any other solutions/recommendations, but to get to that point, we should keep exploring. To give this some more color. In 2016 we assisted paloaltonetworks.com and shadow server taking down the Prince of Persia malware that went undetected and roamed the internet for ten years (that's a long time folks) http://researchcenter.paloaltonetworks.com/2016/06/unit42-prince-of-persia-g... So the actual WHOIS data was useless in a sense we were dealing with stolen identities. But we were able to map out the botnet controller network through the WHOIS and coordinated with more Registrars to sinkhole the entire lot. Again the WHOIS data was useless in this case as it was fake, could have passed every syntax or WHOIS cross-validation check. So instead of gated access, why not aim for an RDS that used anonymized unique identifiers that are available for everyone? We have not explored that option yet. But to me dealing with botnets, I do not care if the WHOIS says the registrant is Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse. I want to be able to research unique identifiers and map that out. Just like I did in the Prince of Persia case. And though I have not checked using anonymized unique identifiers is acceptable under the current EU Directive or the EU GDPR, but if we can get input on it, great. And we could make RDS a great tool to combat abuse while respecting the UN universal right for privacy. Again this is just one recommendation we could make. We are only scratching the surface here with a next generation RDS. Let's make it boldly go where no one has ever gone before and do it right. Best regards, Theo Registrar. On 2-3-2017 20:54, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
Chuck
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
<2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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Hi, On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 06:35:28PM +0000, Greg Aaron wrote:
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
Something that would obviously be helpful in responding to that is a way of knowing whether someone is in fact part of the "international law enforcement community". It might indeed be easier to do that if we could tell without careful parsing whether the claim is about "the community of all law enforcement people made of the union of every law enforcement people in every nation" or "the law enforcement community working under certain established international standards" or something else. My impression of the privacy concerns several people have raised is partly that what is or ought to be public data in one jurisdiction is or ought not to be public data in another. This appears to be a problem of conflict of laws, and I'm not sure therefore how appeal to some subset of some enforcers of some of those laws helps us to understand just what we ought to do. I am not dismissing the importance of law-enforcement concerns; I'm rather asking how this document (as so many others we have collected) helps us in any way to determine a course of action. Finally, I note that the argument in the resolution boils down to, "The way it is works for us, so nobody should change it." That seems a pretty weak argument in the face of the sort of pervasive monitoring -- in some cases, possibly contrary to national law, as I think may be the case in two countries of which I am a citizen -- that came to light not so long ago. And yes, I am aware that in some countries, there is at least in principle an important distinction between the intelligence and law enforcement services. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime
Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and
WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and
WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and
WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and
WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and
WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and
WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and
WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it
RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
mobile: +1.215.858.2257
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
+1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: [ http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions](http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions) I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote:
+1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime
Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and
WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and
WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and
WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and
WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and
WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and
WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and
WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it
RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
mobile: +1.215.858.2257
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing listgnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- *Greg Shatan *C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
+1 From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck [ ] From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: [ vgreimann@key-systems.net](mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net) To: [ gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org](mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org) Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. Thank you, Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck [ ] From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. Thank you, Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. Thank you, Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. Thank you, Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
*From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
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*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM
UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40
From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>
gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
*From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM
UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10
From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>
To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM
UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21
From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime
Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and
WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and
WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and
WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and
WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and
WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and
WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and
WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it
RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
mobile: +1.215.858.2257
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+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. ---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. Thank you, Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Something does not add up. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg < gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
*From:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com <michele@blacknight.com>] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline < icann@ferdeline.com> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
*From:* Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>]
*Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net < vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
*From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- bounces@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann < vgreimann@key-systems.net> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote:
+1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <(215)%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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Thanks for your interest. My comments inline. On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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"Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law" Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up? Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote: +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: +1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
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Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents. SP On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote:
"Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum... Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote: +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: +1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Attached are a few. Happy reading. SP On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote:
I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote:
"Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action. But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote: I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting?
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services??
Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote: > +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> > To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. > Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. > Stephanie Perrin > On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > Chuck > > That seems a lot saner and more scalable. > > Regards > > Michele > > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > http://www.blacknight.host/ > http://blacknight.blog / > http://ceo.hosting/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> > Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 > To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> > Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. > > Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. > > Chuck > > From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM > To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> > Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > Ayden > > If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. > However so far you haven’t. > > As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. > > Input is always welcome and encouraged. > > Regards > > Michele > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > http://www.blacknight.host/ > http://blacknight.blog / > http://ceo.hosting/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> > Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> > Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 > To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> > Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. > > Thank you, > > Ayden > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM > UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 > From: cgomes@verisign.com > To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> > gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > > > I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. > > Chuck > > > From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM > To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> > Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. > > - Ayden > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM > UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 > From: cgomes@verisign.com > To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > > > Very well said Greg. > > It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. > > Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. > > Chuck > > > From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM > To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> > Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > > "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." > This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. > > On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. > > As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). > > Greg > > > > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: > +1 Volker > > - Ayden > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data > Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM > UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 > From: vgreimann@key-systems.net > To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > > > Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... > > Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: > The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. > > The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” > > Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." > > The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” > > The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions > > I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) > > > Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime > Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee > CTC.06.t16 > WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and > WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and > WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and > WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and > WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and > WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and > WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and > WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and > WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it > RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it > FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. > > ********************************** > Greg Aaron > Vice-President, Product Management > iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com > mobile: +1.215.858.2257 > ********************************** > The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > > -- > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > > Volker A. Greimann > - Rechtsabteilung - > > Key-Systems GmbH > Im Oberen Werk 1 > 66386 St. Ingbert > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 > Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net > > Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net > www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com > > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: > www.facebook.com/KeySystems > www.twitter.com/key_systems > > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP > www.keydrive.lu > > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. 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If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > -- > Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
This is why they are coming to Copenhagen. I urge you to listen to what Giovanni Buttarelli says next week. When I worked for the Canadian Privacy Commissioner, I spoke at the Vancouver conference (2005??). Giovanni Buttarelli came in 2003 I believe, Rodota earlier. Diana Alonso Blass came to Montreal, I think that was 2003..... To demand that no action be taken until someone takes a case to Court, is, in my view, not an acceptable position to take, when it is not you that will be in Court defending ICANN's policies and contracts. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of folks out there ready to mount a campaign if reasoned discussion gets us nowhere.... Stephanie On 2017-03-07 08:51, John Bambenek wrote:
None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action.
But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote:
I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote:
"Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Thanks for your interest. My comments inline.
On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: > The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is > very interesting. To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting? > > People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down > a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger > violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and > multiplied by a million. Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. > To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many > people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while > oneself participates- that's also interesting. Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding. > > Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite > common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services?? > > Something does not add up. Indeed.
Stephanie Perrin > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via > gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote: > > +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca > <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> > To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> > Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement > association resolution regarding domain registration data > > I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it > generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about > this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar > with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby > group/professional association which is remarkably similar > to this organization, only on a national level. OF course > any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, > but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate > representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we > not have several representatives of police agencies on this > working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form > part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part > of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement > officials have formed a public safety working group.....any > of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting > papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect > someone has drafted this document for the International > Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am > sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it > to their own national governments, who in turn will forward > it to their GAC delegations. > Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change > to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting > that this international organization has a link for > contacting your congressman, > http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ > <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop > down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they > have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have > followed the impact of technology on police work have seen > many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face > problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional > protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not > had its views very well represented at ICANN over many > years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for > membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show > up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who > does not have the time and money to show up. > Stephanie Perrin > On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > > Chuck > That seems a lot saner and more scalable. > Regards > Michele > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > http://www.blacknight.host/ > http://blacknight.blog / > http://ceo.hosting/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside > Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> > <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> > *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 > *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> > <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> > *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law > enforcement association resolution regarding domain > registration data > I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending > administrative workload for staff and would like them to > focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I > am now sorry I made the suggestion. > Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership > list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG > update to any organizations that may have a stake in > what we are doing and invite them to join as members or > observers. > Chuck > *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight > [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM > *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck > <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> > *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] > international law enforcement association resolution > regarding domain registration data > Ayden > If you supply the names and contact details for > organisations who you think should be invited to > contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal > with it. > However so far you haven’t. > As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open > to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All > you need to do is turn up. > Input is always welcome and encouraged. > Regards > Michele > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > http://www.blacknight.host/ > http://blacknight.blog / > http://ceo.hosting/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside > Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of > Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> > *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> > *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 > *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com > <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> > *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" > <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> > *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law > enforcement association resolution regarding domain > registration data > If the invitation to this association will be going out > on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I > consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out > in the same manner. > > Thank you, > > Ayden > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law > enforcement association resolution regarding domain > registration data > Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM > UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 > From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> > To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> > <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> > gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> > <gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, > vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> > <vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> > I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are > bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact > the association I will cancel my request of staff > and encourage others to do that. > Chuck > *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM > *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com > <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> > *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; > vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] > international law enforcement association resolution > regarding domain registration data > If we are going to send an invite letter to this > organisation requesting their participation, I am > happy to provide a list of other organisations whose > voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff > can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. > - Ayden > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law > enforcement association resolution regarding > domain registration data > Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM > UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 > From: cgomes@verisign.com > <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> > To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> > <gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, > icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> > <icann@ferdeline.com > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, > vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> > <vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> > Very well said Greg. > It seems to me that we should reach out to them > and invite them to have a representative or > representatives join our WG. > Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an > invitation letter and identify who and where we > should send it. > Chuck > *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> > [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On > Behalf Of *Greg Shatan > *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM > *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann > <vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> > *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] > international law enforcement association > resolution regarding domain registration data > > "They can ask for anything they like, it is > not like it has legal binding status. It is > a wish list, nothing more..." > > This is no different than any other stakeholder > (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So > their input should be accepted on an equal > footing with any other input. There seems to be > a curious amount of effort devoted to > discounting this input, much of it based on > identity (or opinions about that identity) > rather than substance. > On top of giving due consideration to their > input, it may also be appropriate to engage in > outreach and engagement with this organization. > Participation in the multistakeholder process > would be more useful in the long run vs. > issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for > all of us, and useful for the process. > As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no > existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate > "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more > important that they understand they are welcome > to participate, as well as to communicate in > other ways (such as resolutions). > Greg > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline > <icann@ferdeline.com > <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: > > +1 Volker > - Ayden > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] > international law enforcement > association resolution regarding domain > registration data > > Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM > UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 > From: vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> > To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > Good thing that police are law > "enforcement" not legislators. They can > ask for anything they like, it is not > like it has legal binding status. It is > a wish list, nothing more... > Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: > > The International Association of > Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued > an official resolution regarding > domain name registration data. > The resolution requests that ICANN > and related parties provide > “continued access to publicly > available databases concerning the > allocation of Internet resources, > and in situations where the > maintenance of these databases may > conflict with privacy regulation, > business concerns, or data-mining > prevention efforts, fully consult > with the International law > enforcement to assist in the > resolution of these potential > conflicts before removing or > restricting law enforcement access > to this critical information; and… > that IACP membership coordinate the > above efforts to achieve the goal of > providing consistent, equal, and > uniform access to the > above-referenced resources for all > of the international law enforcement > community.” > Founded in 1893, the IACP > (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) > is the professional association for > law enforcement officers, with > members in 133 countries worldwide, > primarily leadership-level personnel > in national, state/provincial, and > local agencies. "The Association's > goals are to advance the science and > art of police services; to develop > and disseminate improved > administrative, technical and > operational practices and promote > their use in police work; to foster > police cooperation and the exchange > of information and experience among > police administrators throughout the > world....and to encourage adherence > of all police officers to high > professional standards of > performance and conduct." > The text of the full resolution is > below and contains the rationales. > It notes that loss of access to the > currently available data “would > severely cripple or eliminate the > ability of law enforcement agencies > to conduct investigation in a timely > manner.” > The document is attached, and also > at: > http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions > <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> > I kindly request that this be added > to our bank of reference materials. > (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) > Support for Law Enforcement Access > to Publicly Available and Accurate > Internet Address Registration Data > to include privacy protected > registrant information and related > Forensic Resources to facilitate > investigation of Cybercrime and > Cyber Enabled Crime > Submitted by: Communications and > Technology Committee > CTC.06.t16 > WHEREAS, this is an updated version > of an expired 2005 adopted > resolution then submitted by the > Communications and Technology > Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at > the 112th Annual Conference; and > WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of > Internet communications is one of > the most valuable tools available to > law enforcement in identifying both > the perpetrators and victims of > crime; and > WHEREAS, the Internet is global in > nature, and as such, poses > challenges when conducting > multiagency international > investigations, including delays > imposed when obtaining international > legal process; and > WHEREAS, electronic or digital > evidence associated with the > Internet is fleeting in nature, and > law enforcement officials must > obtain timely access to this > information to fulfill law > enforcement duties; and > WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity > and international nature of the > Internet, and the fleeting nature of > electronic or digital evidence, to > thwart law enforcement > investigations; and > WHEREAS, publicly available > databases containing information > involving the allocation of Internet > resources and who they are assigned > to, such as Internet Protocol > address space and domain names, are > a critical tool used by law > enforcement, and because these > databases are public in nature, > allow law enforcement agencies > access to conduct investigations in > the most timely manner possible; and > WHERAS, allocation of Internet > resources is expanding rapidly due > to impending exhaustion of Internet > Protocol Version 4 address space and > the subsequent and simultaneous > implementation of Internet Protocol > Version 6 as well as the > implementation of numerous new top > level domains by the Internet > Corporation for the Assigned Names > and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and > easily accessible registrant > information is now even more > important to law enforcement than in > 2005 when the original resolution > was adopted; and > WHEREAS, ICANN and its International > members involved in the creation of > policy consensus and administration > of this information currently are > considering new registrant data > policy which may seek to restrict or > eliminate fluid public access due to > business, privacy, or data-mining > concerns; and > WHEREAS, the elimination or > restriction of easy fluid access to > this information would severely > cripple or eliminate the ability of > law enforcement agencies to conduct > investigation in a timely manner; > now therefore be it > RESOLVED, that the International > Association of Chiefs of Police > (IACP) strongly urges the related > Internet administration communities, > including governments, regional > Internet registries, the Internet > Corporation for Assigned Names and > Numbers, Internet Service Providers, > domain-name registries, domain-name > registrars, and Internet service > providers to assist law enforcement > by providing continued access to > publicly available databases > concerning the allocation of > Internet resources, and in > situations where the maintenance of > these databases may conflict with > privacy regulation, business > concerns, or data-mining prevention > efforts, fully consult with the > International law enforcement to > assist in the resolution of these > potential conflicts before removing > or restricting law enforcement > access to this critical information; > and be it > FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP > membership coordinate the above > efforts to achieve the goal of > providing consistent, equal, and > uniform access to the > above-referenced resources for all > of the international law enforcement > community. > ********************************** > Greg Aaron > Vice-President, Product Management > iThreat Cyber Group / > Cybertoolbelt.com > <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> > mobile: +1.215.858.2257 > <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> > ********************************** > The information contained in this > message is privileged and > confidential and protected from > disclosure. If the reader of this > message is not the intended > recipient, or an employee or agent > responsible for delivering this > message to the intended recipient, > you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or > copying of this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in > error, please notify us immediately > by replying to the message and > deleting it from your computer. > > _______________________________________________ > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> > > -- > > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. > > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > > > > Volker A. Greimann > > - Rechtsabteilung - > > > > Key-Systems GmbH > > Im Oberen Werk 1 > > 66386 St. Ingbert > > Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 > <tel:+49%206894%209396901> > > Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 > <tel:+49%206894%209396851> > > Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> > > > > Web:www.key-systems.net > <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> > > www.domaindiscount24.com > <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com > <http://www.BrandShelter.com> > > > > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: > > www.facebook.com/KeySystems > <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> > > www.twitter.com/key_systems > <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> > > > > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin > > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken > > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 > > > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP > > www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> > > > > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Volker A. Greimann > > - legal department - > > > > Key-Systems GmbH > > Im Oberen Werk 1 > > 66386 St. Ingbert > > Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 > <tel:+49%206894%209396901> > > Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 > <tel:+49%206894%209396851> > > Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net > <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> > > > > Web:www.key-systems.net > <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> > > www.domaindiscount24.com > <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com > <http://www.BrandShelter.com> > > > > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: > > www.facebook.com/KeySystems > <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> > > www.twitter.com/key_systems > <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> > > > > CEO: Alexander Siffrin > > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken > > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 > > > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP > > www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> > > > > This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> > > -- > *Greg Shatan***C: 917-816-6428 > <tel:%28917%29%20816-6428>S: gsshatan > Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 > <tel:%28646%29%20845-9428> > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list > gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> > > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:wg@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> > _______________________________________________ > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org > <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> > > -- > _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE > burning. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
1) No one is demanding no action. In fact in another email I suggested one solution. Whois privacy protection for free. 2) the blanket statement that having a specific opinion is bad because I won't be defending in court is just a polite way of saying the only voices that matter here are the registrars. If that's the case, let's drop the "open and collaborative" crap and just be honest that only certain stakeholders matter and everyone else can sod off. At least it's be honest because the more I watch this lost, there are those that have "the right" opinion and everyone else is wrong and that's just that. 3) why wait? If privacy advocates want to have the fight that whois data is an egregious privacy risk, do it. If my side doesn't win in the courts, we will win in the legislatures and, on that day, it will be winner takes all. J Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2017, at 08:59, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
This is why they are coming to Copenhagen. I urge you to listen to what Giovanni Buttarelli says next week. When I worked for the Canadian Privacy Commissioner, I spoke at the Vancouver conference (2005??). Giovanni Buttarelli came in 2003 I believe, Rodota earlier. Diana Alonso Blass came to Montreal, I think that was 2003.....
To demand that no action be taken until someone takes a case to Court, is, in my view, not an acceptable position to take, when it is not you that will be in Court defending ICANN's policies and contracts. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of folks out there ready to mount a campaign if reasoned discussion gets us nowhere....
Stephanie
On 2017-03-07 08:51, John Bambenek wrote: None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action.
But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote: I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law"
Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any documentation to back this up?
Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there is new and that governments haven't been aware of it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> Thanks for your interest. My comments inline. > >> On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: >> The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting. > To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean by interesting? >> >> People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million. > Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. >> To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting. > Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced organization ( I presume you mean the International association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, you are directly responding. >> >> Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. > Honest people are putting their accurate data into their registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what you find interesting here, could you please explain what you mean by interesting, and what particular comment about sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services?? >> >> Something does not add up. > Indeed. > > Stephanie Perrin >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> wrote: >>> +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- Original Message ---- >>> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> >>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. >>> Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. >>> Stephanie Perrin >>> On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: >>> Chuck >>> >>> That seems a lot saner and more scalable. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Michele >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mr Michele Neylon >>> Blacknight Solutions >>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>> http://blacknight.blog / >>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>> ------------------------------- >>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>> >>> From: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> >>> Date: Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 >>> To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. >>> >>> Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM >>> To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> >>> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> Ayden >>> >>> If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. >>> However so far you haven’t. >>> >>> As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. >>> >>> Input is always welcome and encouraged. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Michele >>> >>> -- >>> Mr Michele Neylon >>> Blacknight Solutions >>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>> http://blacknight.blog / >>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>> ------------------------------- >>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>> >>> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> Date: Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 >>> To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Ayden >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM >>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 >>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>> To: icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> >>> >>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM >>> To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> >>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com; vgreimann@key-systems.net; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. >>> >>> - Ayden >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM >>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 >>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, icann@ferdeline.com <icann@ferdeline.com>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> >>> >>> Very well said Greg. >>> >>> It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. >>> >>> Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> >>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan >>> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM >>> To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." >>> This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. >>> >>> On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. >>> >>> As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> wrote: >>> +1 Volker >>> >>> - Ayden >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data >>> Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM >>> UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 >>> From: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> >>> >>> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... >>> >>> Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: >>> The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. >>> >>> The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” >>> >>> Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." >>> >>> The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” >>> >>> The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions >>> >>> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) >>> >>> >>> Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime >>> Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee >>> CTC.06.t16 >>> WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and >>> WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and >>> WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and >>> WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and >>> WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and >>> WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and >>> WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and >>> WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and >>> WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it >>> RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it >>> FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. >>> >>> ********************************** >>> Greg Aaron >>> Vice-President, Product Management >>> iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com >>> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 >>> ********************************** >>> The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> >>> -- >>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. >>> >>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen, >>> >>> Volker A. Greimann >>> - Rechtsabteilung - >>> >>> Key-Systems GmbH >>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> >>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net >>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com >>> >>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: >>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>> >>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin >>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 >>> >>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>> www.keydrive.lu >>> >>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. 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If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> -- >>> Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >> >> -- >> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning. > _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
1) No one is demanding no action. In fact in another email I suggested one solution. Whois privacy protection for free. Sure, who will pay for the attached costs then? 2) the blanket statement that having a specific opinion is bad because I won't be defending in court is just a polite way of saying the only voices that matter here are the registrars. If that's the case, let's drop the "open and collaborative" crap and just be honest that only certain stakeholders matter and everyone else can sod off. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion and every voice counts. If only registrar voices counted, a lot of policy would look differently, if only from an implementation standpoint. If you believe only registrar viewpoints count you have obviously not been watching ICANN over the last few years.
3) why wait? If privacy advocates want to have the fight that whois data is an egregious privacy risk, do it. If my side doesn't win in the courts, we will win in the legislatures and, on that day, it will be winner takes all.
Yup, we are seeing that right now. Until the courts take it back again... V
J
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2017, at 08:59, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
This is why they are coming to Copenhagen. I urge you to listen to what Giovanni Buttarelli says next week. When I worked for the Canadian Privacy Commissioner, I spoke at the Vancouver conference (2005??). Giovanni Buttarelli came in 2003 I believe, Rodota earlier. Diana Alonso Blass came to Montreal, I think that was 2003.....
To demand that no action be taken until someone takes a case to Court, is, in my view, not an acceptable position to take, when it is not you that will be in Court defending ICANN's policies and contracts. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of folks out there ready to mount a campaign if reasoned discussion gets us nowhere....
Stephanie
On 2017-03-07 08:51, John Bambenek wrote:
None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action.
But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote:
I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Please check the documents which we have received from the data protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the library of reference documents.
SP
On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: > "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law" > > Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? > Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any > documentation to back this up? > > Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced > this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there > is new and that governments haven't been aware of it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin > <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca > <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote: > >> Thanks for your interest. My comments inline. >> >> >> On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: >>> The level of resistance here against investigative use cases >>> is very interesting. >> To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean >> by interesting? >>> >>> People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut >>> down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger >>> violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and >>> multiplied by a million. >> Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of >> personal data is a violation of law. There are many other ways >> to disclose the data to lawful investigators. >>> To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many >>> people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while >>> oneself participates- that's also interesting. >> Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what >> do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced >> organization ( I presume you mean the International association >> of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" to >> participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I presume, >> you are directly responding. >>> >>> Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite >>> common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. >> Honest people are putting their accurate data into their >> registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what >> you find interesting here, could you please explain what you >> mean by interesting, and what particular comment about >> sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS >> privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services?? >>> >>> Something does not add up. >> Indeed. >> >> Stephanie Perrin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote: >>> >>> +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- Original Message ---- >>> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca >>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> >>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>> registration data >>> >>> I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest >>> it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled >>> about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more >>> familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of >>> Police, a lobby group/professional association which is >>> remarkably similar to this organization, only on a >>> national level. OF course any of the police lobby >>> associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting >>> that we do not have adequate representation of law >>> enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several >>> representatives of police agencies on this working group? >>> Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC >>> delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the >>> Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials >>> have formed a public safety working group.....any of these >>> representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers >>> for their national organizations and indeed I suspect >>> someone has drafted this document for the International >>> Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I >>> am sure many national associations will endorse it and >>> bring it to their own national governments, who in turn >>> will forward it to their GAC delegations. >>> Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative >>> change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless >>> interesting that this international organization has a >>> link for contacting your congressman, >>> http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ >>> <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop >>> down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that >>> they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who >>> have followed the impact of technology on police work have >>> seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police >>> face problems of time and expense, not to mention >>> constitutional protection. However, It is not like law >>> enforcement has not had its views very well represented at >>> ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, >>> that the bar for membership on this working group is >>> exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need >>> to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to >>> show up. >>> Stephanie Perrin >>> On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: >>> >>> Chuck >>> That seems a lot saner and more scalable. >>> Regards >>> Michele >>> -- >>> Mr Michele Neylon >>> Blacknight Solutions >>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>> http://blacknight.blog / >>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>> ------------------------------- >>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside >>> Business Park,Sleaty >>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>> *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> >>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 >>> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> >>> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>> registration data >>> I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending >>> administrative workload for staff and would like them >>> to focus their time in helping us do our >>> deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. >>> Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership >>> list that we encourage all members to send our latest >>> WG update to any organizations that may have a stake >>> in what we are doing and invite them to join as >>> members or observers. >>> Chuck >>> *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight >>> [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] >>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM >>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck >>> <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>> international law enforcement association resolution >>> regarding domain registration data >>> Ayden >>> If you supply the names and contact details for >>> organisations who you think should be invited to >>> contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal >>> with it. >>> However so far you haven’t. >>> As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are >>> open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly >>> low. All you need to do is turn up. >>> Input is always welcome and encouraged. >>> Regards >>> Michele >>> -- >>> Mr Michele Neylon >>> Blacknight Solutions >>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>> http://blacknight.blog / >>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>> ------------------------------- >>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside >>> Business Park,Sleaty >>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf >>> of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 >>> *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com >>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" >>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>> registration data >>> If the invitation to this association will be going >>> out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN >>> staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations >>> be sent out in the same manner. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Ayden >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>> enforcement association resolution regarding >>> domain registration data >>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM >>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 >>> From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>> To: icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are >>> bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact >>> the association I will cancel my request of staff >>> and encourage others to do that. >>> Chuck >>> *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] >>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM >>> *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com >>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; >>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>> international law enforcement association >>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>> If we are going to send an invite letter to this >>> organisation requesting their participation, I am >>> happy to provide a list of other organisations >>> whose voices are missing from this WG so that >>> ICANN staff can invite them to participate as >>> well. Thanks. >>> - Ayden >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international >>> law enforcement association resolution >>> regarding domain registration data >>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM >>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 >>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>> icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>> <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, >>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>> Very well said Greg. >>> It seems to me that we should reach out to >>> them and invite them to have a representative >>> or representatives join our WG. >>> Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare >>> an invitation letter and identify who and >>> where we should send it. >>> Chuck >>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> >>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] >>> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan >>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM >>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann >>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>> international law enforcement association >>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>> >>> "They can ask for anything they like, it >>> is not like it has legal binding status. >>> It is a wish list, nothing more..." >>> >>> This is no different than any other >>> stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even >>> GAC members. So their input should be accepted >>> on an equal footing with any other input. >>> There seems to be a curious amount of effort >>> devoted to discounting this input, much of it >>> based on identity (or opinions about that >>> identity) rather than substance. >>> On top of giving due consideration to their >>> input, it may also be appropriate to engage in >>> outreach and engagement with this >>> organization. Participation in the >>> multistakeholder process would be more useful >>> in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. >>> Useful for them, useful for all of us, and >>> useful for the process. >>> As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be >>> no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate >>> "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the >>> more important that they understand they are >>> welcome to participate, as well as to >>> communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). >>> Greg >>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden >>> Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: >>> >>> +1 Volker >>> - Ayden >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>> international law enforcement >>> association resolution regarding >>> domain registration data >>> >>> Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM >>> UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 >>> From: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> Good thing that police are law >>> "enforcement" not legislators. They >>> can ask for anything they like, it is >>> not like it has legal binding status. >>> It is a wish list, nothing more... >>> Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: >>> >>> The International Association of >>> Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued >>> an official resolution regarding >>> domain name registration data. >>> The resolution requests that ICANN >>> and related parties provide >>> “continued access to publicly >>> available databases concerning the >>> allocation of Internet resources, >>> and in situations where the >>> maintenance of these databases may >>> conflict with privacy regulation, >>> business concerns, or data-mining >>> prevention efforts, fully consult >>> with the International law >>> enforcement to assist in the >>> resolution of these potential >>> conflicts before removing or >>> restricting law enforcement access >>> to this critical information; and… >>> that IACP membership coordinate >>> the above efforts to achieve the >>> goal of providing consistent, >>> equal, and uniform access to the >>> above-referenced resources for all >>> of the international law >>> enforcement community.” >>> Founded in 1893, the IACP >>> (www.iacp.org >>> <http://www.iacp.org>) is the >>> professional association for law >>> enforcement officers, with members >>> in 133 countries worldwide, >>> primarily leadership-level >>> personnel in national, >>> state/provincial, and local >>> agencies. "The Association's goals >>> are to advance the science and art >>> of police services; to develop and >>> disseminate improved >>> administrative, technical and >>> operational practices and promote >>> their use in police work; to >>> foster police cooperation and the >>> exchange of information and >>> experience among police >>> administrators throughout the >>> world....and to encourage >>> adherence of all police officers >>> to high professional standards of >>> performance and conduct." >>> The text of the full resolution is >>> below and contains the rationales. >>> It notes that loss of access to >>> the currently available data >>> “would severely cripple or >>> eliminate the ability of law >>> enforcement agencies to conduct >>> investigation in a timely manner.” >>> The document is attached, and also >>> at: >>> http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions >>> <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> >>> I kindly request that this be >>> added to our bank of reference >>> materials. (Thanks, Lisa and >>> Michelle.) >>> Support for Law Enforcement Access >>> to Publicly Available and Accurate >>> Internet Address Registration Data >>> to include privacy protected >>> registrant information and related >>> Forensic Resources to facilitate >>> investigation of Cybercrime and >>> Cyber Enabled Crime >>> Submitted by: Communications and >>> Technology Committee >>> CTC.06.t16 >>> WHEREAS, this is an updated >>> version of an expired 2005 adopted >>> resolution then submitted by the >>> Communications and Technology >>> Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted >>> at the 112th Annual Conference; and >>> WHEREAS, the lawful investigation >>> of Internet communications is one >>> of the most valuable tools >>> available to law enforcement in >>> identifying both the perpetrators >>> and victims of crime; and >>> WHEREAS, the Internet is global in >>> nature, and as such, poses >>> challenges when conducting >>> multiagency international >>> investigations, including delays >>> imposed when obtaining >>> international legal process; and >>> WHEREAS, electronic or digital >>> evidence associated with the >>> Internet is fleeting in nature, >>> and law enforcement officials must >>> obtain timely access to this >>> information to fulfill law >>> enforcement duties; and >>> WHEREAS, criminals use the >>> anonymity and international nature >>> of the Internet, and the fleeting >>> nature of electronic or digital >>> evidence, to thwart law >>> enforcement investigations; and >>> WHEREAS, publicly available >>> databases containing information >>> involving the allocation of >>> Internet resources and who they >>> are assigned to, such as Internet >>> Protocol address space and domain >>> names, are a critical tool used by >>> law enforcement, and because these >>> databases are public in nature, >>> allow law enforcement agencies >>> access to conduct investigations >>> in the most timely manner >>> possible; and >>> WHERAS, allocation of Internet >>> resources is expanding rapidly due >>> to impending exhaustion of >>> Internet Protocol Version 4 >>> address space and the subsequent >>> and simultaneous implementation of >>> Internet Protocol Version 6 as >>> well as the implementation of >>> numerous new top level domains by >>> the Internet Corporation for the >>> Assigned Names and Numbers >>> (ICANN), accurate and easily >>> accessible registrant information >>> is now even more important to law >>> enforcement than in 2005 when the >>> original resolution was adopted; and >>> WHEREAS, ICANN and its >>> International members involved in >>> the creation of policy consensus >>> and administration of this >>> information currently are >>> considering new registrant data >>> policy which may seek to restrict >>> or eliminate fluid public access >>> due to business, privacy, or >>> data-mining concerns; and >>> WHEREAS, the elimination or >>> restriction of easy fluid access >>> to this information would severely >>> cripple or eliminate the ability >>> of law enforcement agencies to >>> conduct investigation in a timely >>> manner; now therefore be it >>> RESOLVED, that the International >>> Association of Chiefs of Police >>> (IACP) strongly urges the related >>> Internet administration >>> communities, including >>> governments, regional Internet >>> registries, the Internet >>> Corporation for Assigned Names and >>> Numbers, Internet Service >>> Providers, domain-name registries, >>> domain-name registrars, and >>> Internet service providers to >>> assist law enforcement by >>> providing continued access to >>> publicly available databases >>> concerning the allocation of >>> Internet resources, and in >>> situations where the maintenance >>> of these databases may conflict >>> with privacy regulation, business >>> concerns, or data-mining >>> prevention efforts, fully consult >>> with the International law >>> enforcement to assist in the >>> resolution of these potential >>> conflicts before removing or >>> restricting law enforcement access >>> to this critical information; and >>> be it >>> FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP >>> membership coordinate the above >>> efforts to achieve the goal of >>> providing consistent, equal, and >>> uniform access to the >>> above-referenced resources for all >>> of the international law >>> enforcement community. >>> ********************************** >>> Greg Aaron >>> Vice-President, Product Management >>> iThreat Cyber Group / >>> Cybertoolbelt.com >>> <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> >>> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 >>> <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> >>> ********************************** >>> The information contained in this >>> message is privileged and >>> confidential and protected from >>> disclosure. If the reader of this >>> message is not the intended >>> recipient, or an employee or agent >>> responsible for delivering this >>> message to the intended recipient, >>> you are hereby notified that any >>> dissemination, distribution or >>> copying of this communication is >>> strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this communication in >>> error, please notify us >>> immediately by replying to the >>> message and deleting it from your >>> computer. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen, >>> >>> >>> >>> Volker A. Greimann >>> >>> - Rechtsabteilung - >>> >>> >>> >>> Key-Systems GmbH >>> >>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>> >>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>> >>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>> >>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>> >>> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> Web:www.key-systems.net >>> <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>> >>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com >>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: >>> >>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>> >>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>> >>> >>> >>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin >>> >>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>> >>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 >>> >>> >>> >>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>> >>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> >>> >>> >>> >>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Volker A. Greimann >>> >>> - legal department - >>> >>> >>> >>> Key-Systems GmbH >>> >>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>> >>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>> >>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>> >>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>> >>> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net >>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> Web:www.key-systems.net >>> <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>> >>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com >>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: >>> >>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>> >>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>> >>> >>> >>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin >>> >>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>> >>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 >>> >>> >>> >>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>> >>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> >>> >>> >>> >>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>> >>> -- >>> *Greg Shatan***C: 917-816-6428 >>> <tel:%28917%29%20816-6428>S: gsshatan >>> Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 >>> <tel:%28646%29%20845-9428> >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:wg@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>> >>> -- >>> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE >>> burning. >> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg >> mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
On 03/07/2017 07:45 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
1) No one is demanding no action. In fact in another email I suggested one solution. Whois privacy protection for free. Sure, who will pay for the attached costs then?
If you can't set the price of your services to cover the costs the proper term to describe you is "bankrupt".
2) the blanket statement that having a specific opinion is bad because I won't be defending in court is just a polite way of saying the only voices that matter here are the registrars. If that's the case, let's drop the "open and collaborative" crap and just be honest that only certain stakeholders matter and everyone else can sod off. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion and every voice counts. If only registrar voices counted, a lot of policy would look differently, if only from an implementation standpoint. If you believe only registrar viewpoints count you have obviously not been watching ICANN over the last few years.
3) why wait? If privacy advocates want to have the fight that whois data is an egregious privacy risk, do it. If my side doesn't win in the courts, we will win in the legislatures and, on that day, it will be winner takes all.
Yup, we are seeing that right now. Until the courts take it back again...
There is an ebb and flow of laws, especially in technology. I have no fear of that and happy to lend whatever expertise I have to those crafting those laws and the consequences therein.
V
J
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2017, at 08:59, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
This is why they are coming to Copenhagen. I urge you to listen to what Giovanni Buttarelli says next week. When I worked for the Canadian Privacy Commissioner, I spoke at the Vancouver conference (2005??). Giovanni Buttarelli came in 2003 I believe, Rodota earlier. Diana Alonso Blass came to Montreal, I think that was 2003.....
To demand that no action be taken until someone takes a case to Court, is, in my view, not an acceptable position to take, when it is not you that will be in Court defending ICANN's policies and contracts. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of folks out there ready to mount a campaign if reasoned discussion gets us nowhere....
Stephanie
On 2017-03-07 08:51, John Bambenek wrote:
None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action.
But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote:
I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what you are saying. https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum...
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> Please check the documents which we have received from the data > protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the > library of reference documents. > > SP > > > On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: >> "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law" >> >> Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois information? >> Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or any >> documentation to back this up? >> >> Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced >> this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there >> is new and that governments haven't been aware of it. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin >> <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca >> <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for your interest. My comments inline. >>> >>> >>> On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: >>>> The level of resistance here against investigative use cases >>>> is very interesting. >>> To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean >>> by interesting? >>>> >>>> People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut >>>> down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a >>>> bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put >>>> together and multiplied by a million. >>> Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of >>> personal data is a violation of law. There are many other >>> ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. >>>> To see an individual person denouncing an organization of >>>> many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, >>>> while oneself participates- that's also interesting. >>> Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what >>> do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced >>> organization ( I presume you mean the International >>> association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" >>> to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I >>> presume, you are directly responding. >>>> >>>> Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite >>>> common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. >>> Honest people are putting their accurate data into their >>> registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what >>> you find interesting here, could you please explain what you >>> mean by interesting, and what particular comment about >>> sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS >>> privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services?? >>>> >>>> Something does not add up. >>> Indeed. >>> >>> Stephanie Perrin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca >>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> >>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am >>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>> registration data >>>> >>>> I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest >>>> it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled >>>> about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more >>>> familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of >>>> Police, a lobby group/professional association which is >>>> remarkably similar to this organization, only on a >>>> national level. OF course any of the police lobby >>>> associations are free to join us, but is anyone >>>> suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of >>>> law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have >>>> several representatives of police agencies on this >>>> working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly >>>> form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are >>>> often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law >>>> enforcement officials have formed a public safety working >>>> group.....any of these representatives are presumably >>>> capable of drafting papers for their national >>>> organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted >>>> this document for the International Association, given >>>> the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many >>>> national associations will endorse it and bring it to >>>> their own national governments, who in turn will forward >>>> it to their GAC delegations. >>>> Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative >>>> change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless >>>> interesting that this international organization has a >>>> link for contacting your congressman, >>>> http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ >>>> <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop >>>> down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that >>>> they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who >>>> have followed the impact of technology on police work >>>> have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. >>>> Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention >>>> constitutional protection. However, It is not like law >>>> enforcement has not had its views very well represented >>>> at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed >>>> out, that the bar for membership on this working group is >>>> exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we >>>> need to worry about is, who does not have the time and >>>> money to show up. >>>> Stephanie Perrin >>>> On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> That seems a lot saner and more scalable. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Michele >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>>> http://blacknight.blog / >>>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit >>>> 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>> >>>> *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> >>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 >>>> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> >>>> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, >>>> "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>> registration data >>>> >>>> I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending >>>> administrative workload for staff and would like them >>>> to focus their time in helping us do our >>>> deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. >>>> >>>> Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership >>>> list that we encourage all members to send our latest >>>> WG update to any organizations that may have a stake >>>> in what we are doing and invite them to join as >>>> members or observers. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight >>>> [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM >>>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck >>>> <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>> international law enforcement association resolution >>>> regarding domain registration data >>>> >>>> Ayden >>>> >>>> If you supply the names and contact details for >>>> organisations who you think should be invited to >>>> contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can >>>> deal with it. >>>> However so far you haven’t. >>>> >>>> As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are >>>> open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly >>>> low. All you need to do is turn up. >>>> >>>> Input is always welcome and encouraged. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Michele >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>>> http://blacknight.blog / >>>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit >>>> 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>> >>>> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf >>>> of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 >>>> *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com >>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" >>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>> registration data >>>> >>>> If the invitation to this association will be going >>>> out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN >>>> staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations >>>> be sent out in the same manner. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Ayden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>> enforcement association resolution regarding >>>> domain registration data >>>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM >>>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 >>>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>> To: icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are >>>> bothered by the fact that I asked staff to >>>> contact the association I will cancel my request >>>> of staff and encourage others to do that. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM >>>> *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com >>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; >>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>> international law enforcement association >>>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>>> >>>> If we are going to send an invite letter to this >>>> organisation requesting their participation, I am >>>> happy to provide a list of other organisations >>>> whose voices are missing from this WG so that >>>> ICANN staff can invite them to participate as >>>> well. Thanks. >>>> >>>> - Ayden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international >>>> law enforcement association resolution >>>> regarding domain registration data >>>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM >>>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 >>>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>>> icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>> <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, >>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Very well said Greg. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that we should reach out to >>>> them and invite them to have a representative >>>> or representatives join our WG. >>>> >>>> Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare >>>> an invitation letter and identify who and >>>> where we should send it. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> >>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] >>>> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM >>>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker >>>> Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>> international law enforcement association >>>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>>> >>>> >>>> "They can ask for anything they like, it >>>> is not like it has legal binding status. >>>> It is a wish list, nothing more..." >>>> >>>> This is no different than any other >>>> stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even >>>> GAC members. So their input should be >>>> accepted on an equal footing with any other >>>> input. There seems to be a curious amount of >>>> effort devoted to discounting this input, >>>> much of it based on identity (or opinions >>>> about that identity) rather than substance. >>>> >>>> On top of giving due consideration to their >>>> input, it may also be appropriate to engage >>>> in outreach and engagement with this >>>> organization. Participation in the >>>> multistakeholder process would be more useful >>>> in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. >>>> Useful for them, useful for all of us, and >>>> useful for the process. >>>> >>>> As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be >>>> no existing SO/AC that would be an >>>> appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes >>>> it all the more important that they >>>> understand they are welcome to participate, >>>> as well as to communicate in other ways (such >>>> as resolutions). >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden >>>> Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 Volker >>>> >>>> - Ayden >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>> international law enforcement >>>> association resolution regarding >>>> domain registration data >>>> >>>> Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM >>>> UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 >>>> From: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> Good thing that police are law >>>> "enforcement" not legislators. They >>>> can ask for anything they like, it is >>>> not like it has legal binding status. >>>> It is a wish list, nothing more... >>>> >>>> Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg >>>> Aaron: >>>> >>>> The International Association of >>>> Chiefs of Police (IACP) has >>>> issued an official resolution >>>> regarding domain name >>>> registration data. >>>> >>>> The resolution requests that >>>> ICANN and related parties provide >>>> “continued access to publicly >>>> available databases concerning >>>> the allocation of Internet >>>> resources, and in situations >>>> where the maintenance of these >>>> databases may conflict with >>>> privacy regulation, business >>>> concerns, or data-mining >>>> prevention efforts, fully consult >>>> with the International law >>>> enforcement to assist in the >>>> resolution of these potential >>>> conflicts before removing or >>>> restricting law enforcement >>>> access to this critical >>>> information; and… that IACP >>>> membership coordinate the above >>>> efforts to achieve the goal of >>>> providing consistent, equal, and >>>> uniform access to the >>>> above-referenced resources for >>>> all of the international law >>>> enforcement community.” >>>> >>>> Founded in 1893, the IACP >>>> (www.iacp.org >>>> <http://www.iacp.org>) is the >>>> professional association for law >>>> enforcement officers, with >>>> members in 133 countries >>>> worldwide, primarily >>>> leadership-level personnel in >>>> national, state/provincial, and >>>> local agencies. "The >>>> Association's goals are to >>>> advance the science and art of >>>> police services; to develop and >>>> disseminate improved >>>> administrative, technical and >>>> operational practices and promote >>>> their use in police work; to >>>> foster police cooperation and the >>>> exchange of information and >>>> experience among police >>>> administrators throughout the >>>> world....and to encourage >>>> adherence of all police officers >>>> to high professional standards of >>>> performance and conduct." >>>> >>>> The text of the full resolution >>>> is below and contains the >>>> rationales. It notes that loss >>>> of access to the currently >>>> available data “would severely >>>> cripple or eliminate the ability >>>> of law enforcement agencies to >>>> conduct investigation in a timely >>>> manner.” >>>> >>>> The document is attached, and >>>> also at: >>>> http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions >>>> <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> >>>> >>>> I kindly request that this be >>>> added to our bank of reference >>>> materials. (Thanks, Lisa and >>>> Michelle.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Support for Law Enforcement >>>> Access to Publicly Available and >>>> Accurate Internet Address >>>> Registration Data to include >>>> privacy protected registrant >>>> information and related Forensic >>>> Resources to facilitate >>>> investigation of Cybercrime and >>>> Cyber Enabled Crime >>>> Submitted by: Communications and >>>> Technology Committee >>>> CTC.06.t16 >>>> WHEREAS, this is an updated >>>> version of an expired 2005 >>>> adopted resolution then submitted >>>> by the Communications and >>>> Technology Committee as CT23.a05 >>>> and adopted at the 112th Annual >>>> Conference; and >>>> WHEREAS, the lawful investigation >>>> of Internet communications is one >>>> of the most valuable tools >>>> available to law enforcement in >>>> identifying both the perpetrators >>>> and victims of crime; and >>>> WHEREAS, the Internet is global >>>> in nature, and as such, poses >>>> challenges when conducting >>>> multiagency international >>>> investigations, including delays >>>> imposed when obtaining >>>> international legal process; and >>>> WHEREAS, electronic or digital >>>> evidence associated with the >>>> Internet is fleeting in nature, >>>> and law enforcement officials >>>> must obtain timely access to this >>>> information to fulfill law >>>> enforcement duties; and >>>> WHEREAS, criminals use the >>>> anonymity and international >>>> nature of the Internet, and the >>>> fleeting nature of electronic or >>>> digital evidence, to thwart law >>>> enforcement investigations; and >>>> WHEREAS, publicly available >>>> databases containing information >>>> involving the allocation of >>>> Internet resources and who they >>>> are assigned to, such as Internet >>>> Protocol address space and domain >>>> names, are a critical tool used >>>> by law enforcement, and because >>>> these databases are public in >>>> nature, allow law enforcement >>>> agencies access to conduct >>>> investigations in the most timely >>>> manner possible; and >>>> WHERAS, allocation of Internet >>>> resources is expanding rapidly >>>> due to impending exhaustion of >>>> Internet Protocol Version 4 >>>> address space and the subsequent >>>> and simultaneous implementation >>>> of Internet Protocol Version 6 as >>>> well as the implementation of >>>> numerous new top level domains by >>>> the Internet Corporation for the >>>> Assigned Names and Numbers >>>> (ICANN), accurate and easily >>>> accessible registrant information >>>> is now even more important to law >>>> enforcement than in 2005 when the >>>> original resolution was adopted; and >>>> WHEREAS, ICANN and its >>>> International members involved in >>>> the creation of policy consensus >>>> and administration of this >>>> information currently are >>>> considering new registrant data >>>> policy which may seek to restrict >>>> or eliminate fluid public access >>>> due to business, privacy, or >>>> data-mining concerns; and >>>> WHEREAS, the elimination or >>>> restriction of easy fluid access >>>> to this information would >>>> severely cripple or eliminate the >>>> ability of law enforcement >>>> agencies to conduct investigation >>>> in a timely manner; now therefore >>>> be it >>>> RESOLVED, that the International >>>> Association of Chiefs of Police >>>> (IACP) strongly urges the related >>>> Internet administration >>>> communities, including >>>> governments, regional Internet >>>> registries, the Internet >>>> Corporation for Assigned Names >>>> and Numbers, Internet Service >>>> Providers, domain-name >>>> registries, domain-name >>>> registrars, and Internet service >>>> providers to assist law >>>> enforcement by providing >>>> continued access to publicly >>>> available databases concerning >>>> the allocation of Internet >>>> resources, and in situations >>>> where the maintenance of these >>>> databases may conflict with >>>> privacy regulation, business >>>> concerns, or data-mining >>>> prevention efforts, fully consult >>>> with the International law >>>> enforcement to assist in the >>>> resolution of these potential >>>> conflicts before removing or >>>> restricting law enforcement >>>> access to this critical >>>> information; and be it >>>> FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP >>>> membership coordinate the above >>>> efforts to achieve the goal of >>>> providing consistent, equal, and >>>> uniform access to the >>>> above-referenced resources for >>>> all of the international law >>>> enforcement community. >>>> >>>> ********************************** >>>> Greg Aaron >>>> Vice-President, Product Management >>>> iThreat Cyber Group / >>>> Cybertoolbelt.com >>>> <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> >>>> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 >>>> <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> >>>> ********************************** >>>> The information contained in this >>>> message is privileged and >>>> confidential and protected from >>>> disclosure. If the reader of this >>>> message is not the intended >>>> recipient, or an employee or >>>> agent responsible for delivering >>>> this message to the intended >>>> recipient, you are hereby >>>> notified that any dissemination, >>>> distribution or copying of this >>>> communication is strictly >>>> prohibited. If you have received >>>> this communication in error, >>>> please notify us immediately by >>>> replying to the message and >>>> deleting it from your computer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>> >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Volker A. Greimann >>>> >>>> - Rechtsabteilung - >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Key-Systems GmbH >>>> >>>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>>> >>>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>>> >>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>>> >>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>>> >>>> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Web: www.key-systems.net >>>> <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net >>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>>> >>>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com >>>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: >>>> >>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>>> >>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin >>>> >>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>>> >>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>>> >>>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Volker A. Greimann >>>> >>>> - legal department - >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Key-Systems GmbH >>>> >>>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>>> >>>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>>> >>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>>> >>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>>> >>>> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Web: www.key-systems.net >>>> <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net >>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>>> >>>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com >>>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: >>>> >>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>>> >>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin >>>> >>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>>> >>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>>> >>>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Greg Shatan***C: 917-816-6428 >>>> <tel:%28917%29%20816-6428>S: gsshatan >>>> Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 >>>> <tel:%28646%29%20845-9428> >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:wg@icann.org> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage >>>> BEFORE burning. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
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There is an ebb and flow of laws, especially in technology. I have no fear of that and happy to lend whatever expertise I have to those crafting those laws and the consequences therein.
I will give you an example: A while ago, German lawmakers found it an incredibly good idea to force telecommunications service provider to store all connection data of their customer for a specific time. The law passed, was implemented, contested in court and thrown out as null and void by the supreme court. A few years later, the european court of justice also threw out the corresponding EU-policy and the concept of blanket data preservation itself as it violated the European charter of rights. Now there is a new law on the subject matter, but it is already being contested in court .... #deadmanwalking Another example: There was a little executive order on immigration that recently went bye-bye. I hear it came back again, but for how long? Best, Volker
V
J
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2017, at 08:59, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
This is why they are coming to Copenhagen. I urge you to listen to what Giovanni Buttarelli says next week. When I worked for the Canadian Privacy Commissioner, I spoke at the Vancouver conference (2005??). Giovanni Buttarelli came in 2003 I believe, Rodota earlier. Diana Alonso Blass came to Montreal, I think that was 2003.....
To demand that no action be taken until someone takes a case to Court, is, in my view, not an acceptable position to take, when it is not you that will be in Court defending ICANN's policies and contracts. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of folks out there ready to mount a campaign if reasoned discussion gets us nowhere....
Stephanie
On 2017-03-07 08:51, John Bambenek wrote:
None of those seem to assert that publication of whois data is illegal or that concerns for the edge cases aren't handled by the various whois privacy regimes. And apparently they've been looking at this for at least 14 years and haven't initiated a legal action.
But since we're in the open and invited mood, let's not limit ourselves to interpreting what they have said in limited ways as a global principle. Why not just invite them to the group and they can speak for themselves directly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 23:25, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
Attached are a few. Happy reading.
SP
On 2017-03-07 00:04, John Bambenek wrote: > I didn't find specifically what you are referencing but did see > this ICANN legal review that seems to directly contradict what > you are saying. > https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum... > > Sent from my iPad > > On Mar 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Stephanie Perrin > <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca > <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote: > >> Please check the documents which we have received from the data >> protection authorities over the past 18 years, they are in the >> library of reference documents. >> >> SP >> >> >> On 2017-03-06 23:41, John Bambenek wrote: >>> "Public disclosure of personal data is a violation of law" >>> >>> Specifically what law outlaws the display of whois >>> information? Do you have a court order, a cease and desist or >>> any documentation to back this up? >>> >>> Because unless there is some pending action, I am unconvinced >>> this is truly unlawful. Its not like this data being out there >>> is new and that governments haven't been aware of it. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Mar 6, 2017, at 22:32, Stephanie Perrin >>> <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca >>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for your interest. My comments inline. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2017-03-06 20:35, allison nixon wrote: >>>>> The level of resistance here against investigative use cases >>>>> is very interesting. >>>> To what are you referring, specifically, and what do you mean >>>> by interesting? >>>>> >>>>> People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut >>>>> down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a >>>>> bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put >>>>> together and multiplied by a million. >>>> Who is talking about shutting down? Public disclosure of >>>> personal data is a violation of law. There are many other >>>> ways to disclose the data to lawful investigators. >>>>> To see an individual person denouncing an organization of >>>>> many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, >>>>> while oneself participates- that's also interesting. >>>> Who are you referring to, which Individual person? And what >>>> do you mean by denounce? and who said the referenced >>>> organization ( I presume you mean the International >>>> association of Chiefs of Police) was not "legitimate enough" >>>> to participate? Certainly not me or Patrick, to whom, I >>>> presume, you are directly responding. >>>>> >>>>> Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite >>>>> common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting. >>>> Honest people are putting their accurate data into their >>>> registration data. Criminals, likely not. I am not sure what >>>> you find interesting here, could you please explain what you >>>> mean by interesting, and what particular comment about >>>> sensitive and accurate PII you are referencing? By WHOIS >>>> privacy I presume you mean privacy proxy services?? >>>>> >>>>> Something does not add up. >>>> Indeed. >>>> >>>> Stephanie Perrin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---- Original Message ---- >>>>> From: Stephanie Perrin >>>>> <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca >>>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> >>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am >>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>>> registration data >>>>> >>>>> I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest >>>>> it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled >>>>> about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more >>>>> familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of >>>>> Police, a lobby group/professional association which is >>>>> remarkably similar to this organization, only on a >>>>> national level. OF course any of the police lobby >>>>> associations are free to join us, but is anyone >>>>> suggesting that we do not have adequate representation >>>>> of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have >>>>> several representatives of police agencies on this >>>>> working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly >>>>> form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are >>>>> often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law >>>>> enforcement officials have formed a public safety >>>>> working group.....any of these representatives are >>>>> presumably capable of drafting papers for their national >>>>> organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted >>>>> this document for the International Association, given >>>>> the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many >>>>> national associations will endorse it and bring it to >>>>> their own national governments, who in turn will forward >>>>> it to their GAC delegations. >>>>> Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative >>>>> change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless >>>>> interesting that this international organization has a >>>>> link for contacting your congressman, >>>>> http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ >>>>> <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop >>>>> down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that >>>>> they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us >>>>> who have followed the impact of technology on police >>>>> work have seen many similar resolutions on different >>>>> issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to >>>>> mention constitutional protection. However, It is not >>>>> like law enforcement has not had its views very well >>>>> represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele >>>>> has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this >>>>> working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to >>>>> me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not >>>>> have the time and money to show up. >>>>> Stephanie Perrin >>>>> On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> That seems a lot saner and more scalable. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Michele >>>>> -- >>>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>>>> http://blacknight.blog / >>>>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit >>>>> 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>>> *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> >>>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>>> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 >>>>> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> >>>>> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, >>>>> "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>>> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>>> registration data >>>>> I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending >>>>> administrative workload for staff and would like >>>>> them to focus their time in helping us do our >>>>> deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. >>>>> Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership >>>>> list that we encourage all members to send our >>>>> latest WG update to any organizations that may have >>>>> a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join >>>>> as members or observers. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight >>>>> [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM >>>>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck >>>>> <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>>> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>>> international law enforcement association resolution >>>>> regarding domain registration data >>>>> Ayden >>>>> If you supply the names and contact details for >>>>> organisations who you think should be invited to >>>>> contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can >>>>> deal with it. >>>>> However so far you haven’t. >>>>> As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are >>>>> open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly >>>>> low. All you need to do is turn up. >>>>> Input is always welcome and encouraged. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Michele >>>>> -- >>>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>>> http://www.blacknight.host/ >>>>> http://blacknight.blog / >>>>> http://ceo.hosting/ >>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> >>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>>> <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit >>>>> 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>>> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on >>>>> behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 >>>>> *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com >>>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" >>>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>>> enforcement association resolution regarding domain >>>>> registration data >>>>> If the invitation to this association will be going >>>>> out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN >>>>> staff, I consider it only fair that other >>>>> invitations be sent out in the same manner. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Ayden >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law >>>>> enforcement association resolution regarding >>>>> domain registration data >>>>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM >>>>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 >>>>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>>> To: icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>>> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are >>>>> bothered by the fact that I asked staff to >>>>> contact the association I will cancel my request >>>>> of staff and encourage others to do that. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM >>>>> *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com >>>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> >>>>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; >>>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>>> international law enforcement association >>>>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>>>> If we are going to send an invite letter to this >>>>> organisation requesting their participation, I >>>>> am happy to provide a list of other >>>>> organisations whose voices are missing from this >>>>> WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to >>>>> participate as well. Thanks. >>>>> - Ayden >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international >>>>> law enforcement association resolution >>>>> regarding domain registration data >>>>> Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM >>>>> UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 >>>>> From: cgomes@verisign.com >>>>> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> >>>>> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>>> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, >>>>> icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> >>>>> <icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, >>>>> vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>>> <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>>> Very well said Greg. >>>>> It seems to me that we should reach out to >>>>> them and invite them to have a >>>>> representative or representatives join our WG. >>>>> Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please >>>>> prepare an invitation letter and identify >>>>> who and where we should send it. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> >>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] >>>>> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM >>>>> *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker >>>>> Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> >>>>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> >>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>>> international law enforcement association >>>>> resolution regarding domain registration data >>>>> >>>>> "They can ask for anything they like, it >>>>> is not like it has legal binding status. >>>>> It is a wish list, nothing more..." >>>>> >>>>> This is no different than any other >>>>> stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even >>>>> GAC members. So their input should be >>>>> accepted on an equal footing with any other >>>>> input. There seems to be a curious amount >>>>> of effort devoted to discounting this input, >>>>> much of it based on identity (or opinions >>>>> about that identity) rather than substance. >>>>> On top of giving due consideration to their >>>>> input, it may also be appropriate to engage >>>>> in outreach and engagement with this >>>>> organization. Participation in the >>>>> multistakeholder process would be more >>>>> useful in the long run vs. issuing >>>>> resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all >>>>> of us, and useful for the process. >>>>> As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be >>>>> no existing SO/AC that would be an >>>>> appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes >>>>> it all the more important that they >>>>> understand they are welcome to participate, >>>>> as well as to communicate in other ways >>>>> (such as resolutions). >>>>> Greg >>>>> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden >>>>> Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com >>>>> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1 Volker >>>>> - Ayden >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] >>>>> international law enforcement >>>>> association resolution regarding >>>>> domain registration data >>>>> >>>>> Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM >>>>> UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 >>>>> From: vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> Good thing that police are law >>>>> "enforcement" not legislators. They >>>>> can ask for anything they like, it >>>>> is not like it has legal binding >>>>> status. It is a wish list, nothing >>>>> more... >>>>> Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg >>>>> Aaron: >>>>> >>>>> The International Association of >>>>> Chiefs of Police (IACP) has >>>>> issued an official resolution >>>>> regarding domain name >>>>> registration data. >>>>> The resolution requests that >>>>> ICANN and related parties >>>>> provide “continued access to >>>>> publicly available databases >>>>> concerning the allocation of >>>>> Internet resources, and in >>>>> situations where the maintenance >>>>> of these databases may conflict >>>>> with privacy regulation, >>>>> business concerns, or >>>>> data-mining prevention efforts, >>>>> fully consult with the >>>>> International law enforcement to >>>>> assist in the resolution of >>>>> these potential conflicts before >>>>> removing or restricting law >>>>> enforcement access to this >>>>> critical information; and… that >>>>> IACP membership coordinate the >>>>> above efforts to achieve the >>>>> goal of providing consistent, >>>>> equal, and uniform access to the >>>>> above-referenced resources for >>>>> all of the international law >>>>> enforcement community.” >>>>> Founded in 1893, the IACP >>>>> (www.iacp.org >>>>> <http://www.iacp.org>) is the >>>>> professional association for law >>>>> enforcement officers, with >>>>> members in 133 countries >>>>> worldwide, primarily >>>>> leadership-level personnel in >>>>> national, state/provincial, and >>>>> local agencies. "The >>>>> Association's goals are to >>>>> advance the science and art of >>>>> police services; to develop and >>>>> disseminate improved >>>>> administrative, technical and >>>>> operational practices and >>>>> promote their use in police >>>>> work; to foster police >>>>> cooperation and the exchange of >>>>> information and experience among >>>>> police administrators throughout >>>>> the world....and to encourage >>>>> adherence of all police officers >>>>> to high professional standards >>>>> of performance and conduct." >>>>> The text of the full resolution >>>>> is below and contains the >>>>> rationales. It notes that loss >>>>> of access to the currently >>>>> available data “would severely >>>>> cripple or eliminate the ability >>>>> of law enforcement agencies to >>>>> conduct investigation in a >>>>> timely manner.” >>>>> The document is attached, and >>>>> also at: >>>>> http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions >>>>> <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> >>>>> >>>>> I kindly request that this be >>>>> added to our bank of reference >>>>> materials. (Thanks, Lisa and >>>>> Michelle.) >>>>> Support for Law Enforcement >>>>> Access to Publicly Available and >>>>> Accurate Internet Address >>>>> Registration Data to include >>>>> privacy protected registrant >>>>> information and related Forensic >>>>> Resources to facilitate >>>>> investigation of Cybercrime and >>>>> Cyber Enabled Crime >>>>> Submitted by: Communications and >>>>> Technology Committee >>>>> CTC.06.t16 >>>>> WHEREAS, this is an updated >>>>> version of an expired 2005 >>>>> adopted resolution then >>>>> submitted by the Communications >>>>> and Technology Committee as >>>>> CT23.a05 and adopted at the >>>>> 112th Annual Conference; and >>>>> WHEREAS, the lawful >>>>> investigation of Internet >>>>> communications is one of the >>>>> most valuable tools available to >>>>> law enforcement in identifying >>>>> both the perpetrators and >>>>> victims of crime; and >>>>> WHEREAS, the Internet is global >>>>> in nature, and as such, poses >>>>> challenges when conducting >>>>> multiagency international >>>>> investigations, including delays >>>>> imposed when obtaining >>>>> international legal process; and >>>>> WHEREAS, electronic or digital >>>>> evidence associated with the >>>>> Internet is fleeting in nature, >>>>> and law enforcement officials >>>>> must obtain timely access to >>>>> this information to fulfill law >>>>> enforcement duties; and >>>>> WHEREAS, criminals use the >>>>> anonymity and international >>>>> nature of the Internet, and the >>>>> fleeting nature of electronic or >>>>> digital evidence, to thwart law >>>>> enforcement investigations; and >>>>> WHEREAS, publicly available >>>>> databases containing information >>>>> involving the allocation of >>>>> Internet resources and who they >>>>> are assigned to, such as >>>>> Internet Protocol address space >>>>> and domain names, are a critical >>>>> tool used by law enforcement, >>>>> and because these databases are >>>>> public in nature, allow law >>>>> enforcement agencies access to >>>>> conduct investigations in the >>>>> most timely manner possible; and >>>>> WHERAS, allocation of Internet >>>>> resources is expanding rapidly >>>>> due to impending exhaustion of >>>>> Internet Protocol Version 4 >>>>> address space and the subsequent >>>>> and simultaneous implementation >>>>> of Internet Protocol Version 6 >>>>> as well as the implementation of >>>>> numerous new top level domains >>>>> by the Internet Corporation for >>>>> the Assigned Names and Numbers >>>>> (ICANN), accurate and easily >>>>> accessible registrant >>>>> information is now even more >>>>> important to law enforcement >>>>> than in 2005 when the original >>>>> resolution was adopted; and >>>>> WHEREAS, ICANN and its >>>>> International members involved >>>>> in the creation of policy >>>>> consensus and administration of >>>>> this information currently are >>>>> considering new registrant data >>>>> policy which may seek to >>>>> restrict or eliminate fluid >>>>> public access due to business, >>>>> privacy, or data-mining >>>>> concerns; and >>>>> WHEREAS, the elimination or >>>>> restriction of easy fluid access >>>>> to this information would >>>>> severely cripple or eliminate >>>>> the ability of law enforcement >>>>> agencies to conduct >>>>> investigation in a timely >>>>> manner; now therefore be it >>>>> RESOLVED, that the International >>>>> Association of Chiefs of Police >>>>> (IACP) strongly urges the >>>>> related Internet administration >>>>> communities, including >>>>> governments, regional Internet >>>>> registries, the Internet >>>>> Corporation for Assigned Names >>>>> and Numbers, Internet Service >>>>> Providers, domain-name >>>>> registries, domain-name >>>>> registrars, and Internet service >>>>> providers to assist law >>>>> enforcement by providing >>>>> continued access to publicly >>>>> available databases concerning >>>>> the allocation of Internet >>>>> resources, and in situations >>>>> where the maintenance of these >>>>> databases may conflict with >>>>> privacy regulation, business >>>>> concerns, or data-mining >>>>> prevention efforts, fully >>>>> consult with the International >>>>> law enforcement to assist in the >>>>> resolution of these potential >>>>> conflicts before removing or >>>>> restricting law enforcement >>>>> access to this critical >>>>> information; and be it >>>>> FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP >>>>> membership coordinate the above >>>>> efforts to achieve the goal of >>>>> providing consistent, equal, and >>>>> uniform access to the >>>>> above-referenced resources for >>>>> all of the international law >>>>> enforcement community. >>>>> ********************************** >>>>> Greg Aaron >>>>> Vice-President, Product Management >>>>> iThreat Cyber Group / >>>>> Cybertoolbelt.com >>>>> <http://Cybertoolbelt.com> >>>>> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 >>>>> <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> >>>>> ********************************** >>>>> The information contained in >>>>> this message is privileged and >>>>> confidential and protected from >>>>> disclosure. If the reader of >>>>> this message is not the intended >>>>> recipient, or an employee or >>>>> agent responsible for delivering >>>>> this message to the intended >>>>> recipient, you are hereby >>>>> notified that any dissemination, >>>>> distribution or copying of this >>>>> communication is strictly >>>>> prohibited. If you have received >>>>> this communication in error, >>>>> please notify us immediately by >>>>> replying to the message and >>>>> deleting it from your computer. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>>> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Volker A. Greimann >>>>> >>>>> - Rechtsabteilung - >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Key-Systems GmbH >>>>> >>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>>>> >>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>>>> >>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>>>> >>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>>>> >>>>> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Web:www.key-systems.net >>>>> <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net >>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>>>> >>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>>>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com >>>>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: >>>>> >>>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>>>> >>>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin >>>>> >>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>>>> >>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP >>>>> >>>>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Volker A. Greimann >>>>> >>>>> - legal department - >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Key-Systems GmbH >>>>> >>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1 >>>>> >>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert >>>>> >>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 >>>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396901> >>>>> >>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 >>>>> <tel:+49%206894%209396851> >>>>> >>>>> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net >>>>> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Web:www.key-systems.net >>>>> <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net >>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net> >>>>> >>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com >>>>> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com >>>>> <http://www.BrandShelter.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: >>>>> >>>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems >>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> >>>>> >>>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems >>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin >>>>> >>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken >>>>> >>>>> V.A.T. 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If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Greg Shatan***C: 917-816-6428 >>>>> <tel:%28917%29%20816-6428>S: gsshatan >>>>> Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 >>>>> <tel:%28646%29%20845-9428> >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>gregshatanipc@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:wg@icann.org> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg >>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage >>>>> BEFORE burning. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org >>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <kohnstamm-to-crocker-chehade-06jun13-en.pdf> <schaar-to-cerf-12mar07.pdf> <wp76_en.pdf>
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I do not think anyone suggested any organization would not be legitimate enough to participate. Anyone with an opinion on the matter can (and should) participate. I merely suggested that I see it as obvious that the source of an argument has an impact on the interpretation of the argument and should not be disregarded. Or would anyone in his right mind consider a Breitbart news article or a Trump tweet as similarly trustworthy, significant and helpful as they would a researched and vetted WSJ article? Anyone with something to say can and should contribute, but we should be free to look at where this argument is coming from as well. Sometimes what is not being said is as informative as what is being said, after all. I also have not seen much issue with legitimate investigative use cases. If law enforcement in the pursuit of their duty has a legal right to access the data, they will in all likelyhood still be able to get at that data, and I support that in general. Admittedly, under such a regime, private organizations with no formal law enforcement powers would have a harder time, and that is something we should look at once we reach that part of the deliberation. I personally think that finding the exact "line in the sand" of who gets what how will be a daunting task, but worthwhile. It is a known fact that the right to privacy of individuals makes the job of law enforcement harder. That is why each jurisdiction has tried to define the acceptable borders and intrusions into the individual privacy necessary to fight specific crime. Law enforcement has specific rights that may ever vary with the crime that is being investigated. For example, law enforcement looking at terror suspects may have significantly more rights to intrude on the privacy of the suspects than law enforcement fighting traffic violations. Police may wire-tap a suspect but only after going through the appropriate process (which will usually require the approval of a judge). And obviously, as an example, private organizations fighting traffic violations (for example private parking companies trying to find and fine those illegally using their parking spaces) have even less rights than state organizations doing the same for public parking spaces. With regard to your comment on accuracy and privacy, I think this is misplaced here. I think it is faily clear to anyone in this group that whois data that is accurate constitutes PII whereas trash data probably does not (it might be PII for someone else if the data was stolen). In many cases I have seen over the years, legitimate users of domain names have used trash data in what they saw as self defense as they did not wish their private details to be published in the whois. While they technically violated their registration agreements, nearly all felt this was justified and a "victimless crime" as they could not see and harm in doing that. And guess what: No one was actually harmed (except the registrar saddled with the man-hour cost trying to convince them to update the data "or else"). Am 07.03.2017 um 02:35 schrieb allison nixon:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting.
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million.
To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting.
Something does not add up.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Responses in-line. On 03/07/2017 01:52 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
I do not think anyone suggested any organization would not be legitimate enough to participate. Anyone with an opinion on the matter can (and should) participate. I merely suggested that I see it as obvious that the source of an argument has an impact on the interpretation of the argument and should not be disregarded.
To which I agree. We should certainly look at those who have a direct revenue stream in this have an interest in maintaining as many people owning domains for as long as possible to maintain said income stream regardless of the harms externalized by their actions.
Or would anyone in his right mind consider a Breitbart news article or a Trump tweet as similarly trustworthy, significant and helpful as they would a researched and vetted WSJ article?
No one cares about your inane political viewpoints. Stop injecting them into this discussion.
Anyone with something to say can and should contribute, but we should be free to look at where this argument is coming from as well. Sometimes what is not being said is as informative as what is being said, after all.
Yes. Tell me, where do you stand on economic conflicts of interest and how they play out in this policy discussion?
I also have not seen much issue with legitimate investigative use cases. If law enforcement in the pursuit of their duty has a legal right to access the data, they will in all likelyhood still be able to get at that data, and I support that in general. Admittedly, under such a regime, private organizations with no formal law enforcement powers would have a harder time, and that is something we should look at once we reach that part of the deliberation. I personally think that finding the exact "line in the sand" of who gets what how will be a daunting task, but worthwhile.
Many disagree with this premise that there is such a need to decide who gets what and that this group should be the one making that decision if so.
It is a known fact that the right to privacy of individuals makes the job of law enforcement harder. That is why each jurisdiction has tried to define the acceptable borders and intrusions into the individual privacy necessary to fight specific crime. Law enforcement has specific rights that may ever vary with the crime that is being investigated. For example, law enforcement looking at terror suspects may have significantly more rights to intrude on the privacy of the suspects than law enforcement fighting traffic violations. Police may wire-tap a suspect but only after going through the appropriate process (which will usually require the approval of a judge).
And obviously, as an example, private organizations fighting traffic violations (for example private parking companies trying to find and fine those illegally using their parking spaces) have even less rights than state organizations doing the same for public parking spaces.
All analogies uninformed by the actual reality of the subject at hand.
With regard to your comment on accuracy and privacy, I think this is misplaced here. I think it is faily clear to anyone in this group that whois data that is accurate constitutes PII whereas trash data probably does not (it might be PII for someone else if the data was stolen). In many cases I have seen over the years, legitimate users of domain names have used trash data in what they saw as self defense as they did not wish their private details to be published in the whois. While they technically violated their registration agreements, nearly all felt this was justified and a "victimless crime" as they could not see and harm in doing that. And guess what: No one was actually harmed (except the registrar saddled with the man-hour cost trying to convince them to update the data "or else").
I want to focus on this because it's such a bald statement of moral turpitude. Let's take a look at what you're actually saying here. You have a customer who wants privacy but instead of paying a few bucks for whois privacy protection because you guys MONETIZED privacy and doing it the right way, you are letting them violate your policies and ICANNs KNOWINGLY. This is no "technical violation", it's a conscious and direct one. You COULD simply offer whois privacy protection as a check box on registration and NOT monetize it. Then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But instead you created an income stream, people don't want to pay into it, so instead of following your own policies and ICANN's you knowingly violate it. All the while criminals do the same thing and use junk data. This enables them to KEEP BEING CRIMINALS longer making this not a "victimless crime"... what it makes it is you are systematically aiding criminals all to protect the whois privacy income stream. We've known there are bad registrars and registries out there. Namecentral was just disaccredited because it was nothing more than a front for DDoS for hire services. There are entire ccTLDs that operate as criminal service providers. We've by and large stopped bothering to report must of it because complaints of this sort or systematically ignored most of the time anyway. Now I see why it persists, because anything that doesn't victimize you is "victimless". This conversation is starting to feel like having a debate with tobacco lobbyists on whether cigarettes cause cancer. Breitbart level credibility indeed. j
Am 07.03.2017 um 02:35 schrieb allison nixon:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting.
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million.
To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting.
Something does not add up.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
*From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
*From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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John, I believe your ad-hominem attacks are unwarranted. They are certainly unwelcome.
I do not think anyone suggested any organization would not be legitimate enough to participate. Anyone with an opinion on the matter can (and should) participate. I merely suggested that I see it as obvious that the source of an argument has an impact on the interpretation of the argument and should not be disregarded.
To which I agree. We should certainly look at those who have a direct revenue stream in this have an interest in maintaining as many people owning domains for as long as possible to maintain said income stream regardless of the harms externalized by their actions. Really? Having an interest in providing a legitimate service makes us accessories to whatever people do online now?
Or would anyone in his right mind consider a Breitbart news article or a Trump tweet as similarly trustworthy, significant and helpful as they would a researched and vetted WSJ article?
No one cares about your inane political viewpoints. Stop injecting them into this discussion. Directly to the ad-hominem attack. Stop injecting those into this discussion. I made a valid point that there is value in differentiating between the original definition of fake news and actual fact-based news.
Anyone with something to say can and should contribute, but we should be free to look at where this argument is coming from as well. Sometimes what is not being said is as informative as what is being said, after all.
Yes. Tell me, where do you stand on economic conflicts of interest and how they play out in this policy discussion? I do not think providing registration services constitutes a conflict of interest. Providing harvesting services of whois data (which current whois use policies already albeit ineffectively prohibit) does.
I also have not seen much issue with legitimate investigative use cases. If law enforcement in the pursuit of their duty has a legal right to access the data, they will in all likelyhood still be able to get at that data, and I support that in general. Admittedly, under such a regime, private organizations with no formal law enforcement powers would have a harder time, and that is something we should look at once we reach that part of the deliberation. I personally think that finding the exact "line in the sand" of who gets what how will be a daunting task, but worthwhile.
Many disagree with this premise that there is such a need to decide who gets what and that this group should be the one making that decision if so. If you look at the EWG recommendations that form the basis for our PDP, you will find these questions at the basis of what our group is tasked to discuss. You may want to have a look at our WG charter documents.
It is a known fact that the right to privacy of individuals makes the job of law enforcement harder. That is why each jurisdiction has tried to define the acceptable borders and intrusions into the individual privacy necessary to fight specific crime. Law enforcement has specific rights that may ever vary with the crime that is being investigated. For example, law enforcement looking at terror suspects may have significantly more rights to intrude on the privacy of the suspects than law enforcement fighting traffic violations. Police may wire-tap a suspect but only after going through the appropriate process (which will usually require the approval of a judge).
And obviously, as an example, private organizations fighting traffic violations (for example private parking companies trying to find and fine those illegally using their parking spaces) have even less rights than state organizations doing the same for public parking spaces.
All analogies uninformed by the actual reality of the subject at hand. Nonetheless valid as they touch upon the same legal question. Who should have access to what information and under which requirements. If you want a closer comparison, look at what law enforcement has to do to get the basically identical, but non-public customer data from a hosting company.
With regard to your comment on accuracy and privacy, I think this is misplaced here. I think it is faily clear to anyone in this group that whois data that is accurate constitutes PII whereas trash data probably does not (it might be PII for someone else if the data was stolen). In many cases I have seen over the years, legitimate users of domain names have used trash data in what they saw as self defense as they did not wish their private details to be published in the whois. While they technically violated their registration agreements, nearly all felt this was justified and a "victimless crime" as they could not see and harm in doing that. And guess what: No one was actually harmed (except the registrar saddled with the man-hour cost trying to convince them to update the data "or else").
I want to focus on this because it's such a bald statement of moral turpitude. Let's take a look at what you're actually saying here. You have a customer who wants privacy but instead of paying a few bucks for whois privacy protection because you guys MONETIZED privacy and doing it the right way, you are letting them violate your policies and ICANNs KNOWINGLY. This is no "technical violation", it's a conscious and direct one. You COULD simply offer whois privacy protection as a check box on registration and NOT monetize it. Then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But instead you created an income stream, people don't want to pay into it, so instead of following your own policies and ICANN's you knowingly violate it. All the while criminals do the same thing and use junk data. This enables them to KEEP BEING CRIMINALS longer making this not a "victimless crime"... what it makes it is you are systematically aiding criminals all to protect the whois privacy income stream. I take offense at this attempt to characterize my argument in this manner. This comment is so far out of bounds, it does not deserve a response other than: registrants provide data to us for provision in the whois that we cannot check and have to take at face value unless we are informed differently. We are not aiding and abetting criminal activity or allowing customers to violate our or ICANNs policy. If informed of such violations, we will take appropriate action.
If you are aware of instances where this is not the case and a registrar knowingly violates policies of ICANN, please report them to ICANN compliance.
We've known there are bad registrars and registries out there.
Then report them!
Namecentral was just disaccredited because it was nothing more than a front for DDoS for hire services. So the system actually works. There are entire ccTLDs that operate as criminal service providers. Do you have evidence or is this something that Trump would tweet? We've by and large stopped bothering to report must of it because complaints of this sort or systematically ignored most of the time anyway. So you are aiding and abetting criminal activity or violations that you know about by not taking action? Now I see why it persists, because anything that doesn't victimize you is "victimless". If a private individual uses a domain name for a legitimate purpose but does not want to reveal his personal information and choses to violate our policies and risk suspension, where is the victim? Other than the registrar who has to use resources to convince him to update or else? This conversation is starting to feel like having a debate with tobacco lobbyists on whether cigarettes cause cancer. Breitbart level credibility indeed. Registering domain names causes crimes now? What are you advocating here? Banning domain name registrations?
j
v
Am 07.03.2017 um 02:35 schrieb allison nixon:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting.
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million.
To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting.
Something does not add up.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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Inline On 03/07/2017 07:36 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
John, I believe your ad-hominem attacks are unwarranted. They are certainly unwelcome.
I do not think anyone suggested any organization would not be legitimate enough to participate. Anyone with an opinion on the matter can (and should) participate. I merely suggested that I see it as obvious that the source of an argument has an impact on the interpretation of the argument and should not be disregarded.
To which I agree. We should certainly look at those who have a direct revenue stream in this have an interest in maintaining as many people owning domains for as long as possible to maintain said income stream regardless of the harms externalized by their actions. Really? Having an interest in providing a legitimate service makes us accessories to whatever people do online now?
No, it means you have economic interests that may color your policy decisions.
Or would anyone in his right mind consider a Breitbart news article or a Trump tweet as similarly trustworthy, significant and helpful as they would a researched and vetted WSJ article?
No one cares about your inane political viewpoints. Stop injecting them into this discussion.
Directly to the ad-hominem attack. Stop injecting those into this discussion. I made a valid point that there is value in differentiating between the original definition of fake news and actual fact-based news.
It's not an ad hominem attack (look up what it means). You keep bring up snide Breitbart and Trump swipes. That's not why we are here. Stop it.
Anyone with something to say can and should contribute, but we should be free to look at where this argument is coming from as well. Sometimes what is not being said is as informative as what is being said, after all.
Yes. Tell me, where do you stand on economic conflicts of interest and how they play out in this policy discussion?
I do not think providing registration services constitutes a conflict of interest. Providing harvesting services of whois data (which current whois use policies already albeit ineffectively prohibit) does. Correct.
I also have not seen much issue with legitimate investigative use cases. If law enforcement in the pursuit of their duty has a legal right to access the data, they will in all likelyhood still be able to get at that data, and I support that in general. Admittedly, under such a regime, private organizations with no formal law enforcement powers would have a harder time, and that is something we should look at once we reach that part of the deliberation. I personally think that finding the exact "line in the sand" of who gets what how will be a daunting task, but worthwhile.
Many disagree with this premise that there is such a need to decide who gets what and that this group should be the one making that decision if so.
If you look at the EWG recommendations that form the basis for our PDP, you will find these questions at the basis of what our group is tasked to discuss. You may want to have a look at our WG charter documents. And what does that have to do with people disagreeing with the premise? Yes, I acknowledge there are other points of view.
It is a known fact that the right to privacy of individuals makes the job of law enforcement harder. That is why each jurisdiction has tried to define the acceptable borders and intrusions into the individual privacy necessary to fight specific crime. Law enforcement has specific rights that may ever vary with the crime that is being investigated. For example, law enforcement looking at terror suspects may have significantly more rights to intrude on the privacy of the suspects than law enforcement fighting traffic violations. Police may wire-tap a suspect but only after going through the appropriate process (which will usually require the approval of a judge).
And obviously, as an example, private organizations fighting traffic violations (for example private parking companies trying to find and fine those illegally using their parking spaces) have even less rights than state organizations doing the same for public parking spaces.
All analogies uninformed by the actual reality of the subject at hand. Nonetheless valid as they touch upon the same legal question. Who should have access to what information and under which requirements. If you want a closer comparison, look at what law enforcement has to do to get the basically identical, but non-public customer data from a hosting company.
I think we have yet to define what non-public data is in this case. Also relevant is that the nature of how computer crimes are investigated and dealt with is materially different from traffic tickets.
With regard to your comment on accuracy and privacy, I think this is misplaced here. I think it is faily clear to anyone in this group that whois data that is accurate constitutes PII whereas trash data probably does not (it might be PII for someone else if the data was stolen). In many cases I have seen over the years, legitimate users of domain names have used trash data in what they saw as self defense as they did not wish their private details to be published in the whois. While they technically violated their registration agreements, nearly all felt this was justified and a "victimless crime" as they could not see and harm in doing that. And guess what: No one was actually harmed (except the registrar saddled with the man-hour cost trying to convince them to update the data "or else").
I want to focus on this because it's such a bald statement of moral turpitude. Let's take a look at what you're actually saying here. You have a customer who wants privacy but instead of paying a few bucks for whois privacy protection because you guys MONETIZED privacy and doing it the right way, you are letting them violate your policies and ICANNs KNOWINGLY. This is no "technical violation", it's a conscious and direct one. You COULD simply offer whois privacy protection as a check box on registration and NOT monetize it. Then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But instead you created an income stream, people don't want to pay into it, so instead of following your own policies and ICANN's you knowingly violate it. All the while criminals do the same thing and use junk data. This enables them to KEEP BEING CRIMINALS longer making this not a "victimless crime"... what it makes it is you are systematically aiding criminals all to protect the whois privacy income stream. I take offense at this attempt to characterize my argument in this manner. This comment is so far out of bounds, it does not deserve a response other than: registrants provide data to us for provision in the whois that we cannot check and have to take at face value unless we are informed differently. We are not aiding and abetting criminal activity or allowing customers to violate our or ICANNs policy. If informed of such violations, we will take appropriate action.
You have documented clearly that you ignore ICANN's policies and likely your own. Take offense all you want but you have put in writing your own willingness to ignore your own legal agreements.
If you are aware of instances where this is not the case and a registrar knowingly violates policies of ICANN, please report them to ICANN compliance.
We've known there are bad registrars and registries out there.
Then report them!
We have.
Namecentral was just disaccredited because it was nothing more than a front for DDoS for hire services. So the system actually works.
In that case.
There are entire ccTLDs that operate as criminal service providers. Do you have evidence or is this something that Trump would tweet?
Yes but again, stop injecting your inane political opinions into this discussion. No one cares that you hate Trump.
We've by and large stopped bothering to report must of it because complaints of this sort or systematically ignored most of the time anyway. So you are aiding and abetting criminal activity or violations that you know about by not taking action? No, we're taking more effective action. I've helped put people in jail... you just cash the criminals checks. Now I see why it persists, because anything that doesn't victimize you is "victimless". If a private individual uses a domain name for a legitimate purpose but does not want to reveal his personal information and choses to violate our policies and risk suspension, where is the victim? Other than the registrar who has to use resources to convince him to update or else? We aren't talking about legitimate uses now, are we? Do you make any attempt to verify legitimate versus illegitimate users when you let them use fake data? Or do you just say "it's too hard" and just cash the checks? This conversation is starting to feel like having a debate with tobacco lobbyists on whether cigarettes cause cancer. Breitbart level credibility indeed. Registering domain names causes crimes now? What are you advocating here? Banning domain name registrations?
No, they are used in crimes. Are you new to the Internet?
u j
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Am 07.03.2017 um 02:35 schrieb allison nixon:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting.
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million.
To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting.
Something does not add up.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck
That seems a lot saner and more scalable.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion.
Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers.
Chuck
*From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Ayden
If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t.
As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up.
Input is always welcome and encouraged.
Regards
Michele
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*From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
*From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
*From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions>
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
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Really? Having an interest in providing a legitimate service makes us accessories to whatever people do online now?
No, it means you have economic interests that may color your policy decisions.
If we look at the economic interest, we'd rather have no domains involved in any shady business. The cost of dealing with compliance, complaints and reports revolving around such domains greatly surpasses the bottom line from the registration of such domain names. We see such domain registrations as cost factor, not as benefit. So the economic incentive to support such registrations is less than zero.
Or would anyone in his right mind consider a Breitbart news article or a Trump tweet as similarly trustworthy, significant and helpful as they would a researched and vetted WSJ article?
No one cares about your inane political viewpoints. Stop injecting them into this discussion.
Directly to the ad-hominem attack. Stop injecting those into this discussion. I made a valid point that there is value in differentiating between the original definition of fake news and actual fact-based news.
It's not an ad hominem attack (look up what it means). You keep bring up snide Breitbart and Trump swipes. That's not why we are here. Stop it. They are the best current examples of influencing thepublic opinion with lies and misdirection, so I won't. Calling my viewpoints inane is very much an attack directed at me personally.
I also have not seen much issue with legitimate investigative use cases. If law enforcement in the pursuit of their duty has a legal right to access the data, they will in all likelyhood still be able to get at that data, and I support that in general. Admittedly, under such a regime, private organizations with no formal law enforcement powers would have a harder time, and that is something we should look at once we reach that part of the deliberation. I personally think that finding the exact "line in the sand" of who gets what how will be a daunting task, but worthwhile.
Many disagree with this premise that there is such a need to decide who gets what and that this group should be the one making that decision if so.
If you look at the EWG recommendations that form the basis for our PDP, you will find these questions at the basis of what our group is tasked to discuss. You may want to have a look at our WG charter documents. And what does that have to do with people disagreeing with the premise? Yes, I acknowledge there are other points of view.
I completely agree that the outcome of this PDP will be that there should not be an RDS with gated access. But this group _is_ the entity tasked with making the recommendation to the GNSO and the board on exactly that question.
Nonetheless valid as they touch upon the same legal question. Who should have access to what information and under which requirements. If you want a closer comparison, look at what law enforcement has to do to get the basically identical, but non-public customer data from a hosting company.
I think we have yet to define what non-public data is in this case. Also relevant is that the nature of how computer crimes are investigated and dealt with is materially different from traffic tickets. Ultimately, the investigating entities have to look for the relevant data in a database. Whois is public, car registration databases are not. Another example of public data vs. non-public data can be seen as Michele mentioned by comparing the whois output for a gTLD domain and a ccTLD domain. As we all know gTLD, I'll only reference a ccTLD:
https://www.nominet.uk/whois/?query=greimann.uk#whois-results As you can see there is exactly two personal data points that ware made public: My name and my entity status. And if I wanted to, I could even have those hidden under Nominet-sponsored privacy policies. Yet somehow, mysteriously, cybercrime under .uk domain names is investigated and cracked down on....
I take offense at this attempt to characterize my argument in this manner. This comment is so far out of bounds, it does not deserve a response other than: registrants provide data to us for provision in the whois that we cannot check and have to take at face value unless we are informed differently. We are not aiding and abetting criminal activity or allowing customers to violate our or ICANNs policy. If informed of such violations, we will take appropriate action.
You have documented clearly that you ignore ICANN's policies and likely your own. Take offense all you want but you have put in writing your own willingness to ignore your own legal agreements. Evidence? Or just tweet-level accusation?
So you are aiding and abetting criminal activity or violations that you know about by not taking action? No, we're taking more effective action. I've helped put people in jail... you just cash the criminals checks. To pay for the costs they cause us. If we could filter them out at the start, we would.
Now I see why it persists, because anything that doesn't victimize you is "victimless". If a private individual uses a domain name for a legitimate purpose but does not want to reveal his personal information and choses to violate our policies and risk suspension, where is the victim? Other than the registrar who has to use resources to convince him to update or else? We aren't talking about legitimate uses now, are we? Do you make any attempt to verify legitimate versus illegitimate users when you let them use fake data? Or do you just say "it's too hard" and just cash the checks? You seem to be implying that there is a magic stick out there somewhere that registrars have access to but are refusing to use that would magically allow us to differentiate legitimate customers and criminals?
Well, I hate to break your bubble, but that does not exist. Just as you do not know if someone is buying a gun to defend himself, to hunt or to commit a crime.
This conversation is starting to feel like having a debate with tobacco lobbyists on whether cigarettes cause cancer. Breitbart level credibility indeed. Registering domain names causes crimes now? What are you advocating here? Banning domain name registrations?
No, they are used in crimes. Are you new to the Internet? All of them? Guns are used in crimes, cars are used in crimes. Anything is used in crimes. What is your point?
u j
v
Am 07.03.2017 um 02:35 schrieb allison nixon:
The level of resistance here against investigative use cases is very interesting.
People claim to care about privacy and then attempt to shut down a major aspect of combating cybercrime, which is a bigger violator of privacy than all the whois spam put together and multiplied by a million.
To see an individual person denouncing an organization of many people as somehow not legitimate enough to participate, while oneself participates- that's also interesting.
Claims that WHOIS data is sensitive and accurate PII despite common use of trash data and WHOIS privacy, also interesting.
Something does not add up.
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Patrick Lenihan via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Stephanie; as a former USA law enforcement officer.
---- Original Message ---- From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 11:36 am Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
I hesitate to even venture a comment on this topic, lest it generate another 20 comments, but I am very puzzled about this whole discussion. I am admittedly much more familiar with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, a lobby group/professional association which is remarkably similar to this organization, only on a national level. OF course any of the police lobby associations are free to join us, but is anyone suggesting that we do not have adequate representation of law enforcement interests at ICANN? Do we not have several representatives of police agencies on this working group? Law enforcement organizations regularly form part of GAC delegations, certainly our RCMP are often part of the Canadian delegation to the GAC. Law enforcement officials have formed a public safety working group.....any of these representatives are presumably capable of drafting papers for their national organizations and indeed I suspect someone has drafted this document for the International Association, given the specificity of the resolutions. I am sure many national associations will endorse it and bring it to their own national governments, who in turn will forward it to their GAC delegations. Police organizations regularly lobby for legislative change to facilitate their work. (it is nevertheless interesting that this international organization has a link for contacting your congressman, http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/ <http://capwiz.com/theiacp/issues/> right under the drop down menu for what we do). It is not surprising that they have prepared a resolution on WHOIS, those of us who have followed the impact of technology on police work have seen many similar resolutions on different issues. Police face problems of time and expense, not to mention constitutional protection. However, It is not like law enforcement has not had its views very well represented at ICANN over many years. Given, as Michele has pointed out, that the bar for membership on this working group is exceedingly low (show up) it seems to me the issue we need to worry about is, who does not have the time and money to show up. Stephanie Perrin On 2017-03-05 10:57, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Chuck That seems a lot saner and more scalable. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Date: *Sunday 5 March 2017 at 15:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "icann@ferdeline.com" <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data I’m concerned that this could turn into an unending administrative workload for staff and would like them to focus their time in helping us do our deliberations. I am now sorry I made the suggestion. Marika has made a good suggestion on the leadership list that we encourage all members to send our latest WG update to any organizations that may have a stake in what we are doing and invite them to join as members or observers. Chuck *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:12 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>; Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Ayden If you supply the names and contact details for organisations who you think should be invited to contribute in some form then I’m sure that we can deal with it. However so far you haven’t. As others have pointed out, the ICANN processes are open to everyone. The barrier to entry is incredibly low. All you need to do is turn up. Input is always welcome and encouraged. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Reply-To: *Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> *Date: *Saturday 4 March 2017 at 19:44 *To: *Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If the invitation to this association will be going out on ICANN letterhead and facilitated by ICANN staff, I consider it only fair that other invitations be sent out in the same manner.
Thank you,
Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:40 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:40 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck *From:*Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM *To:* Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> *Cc:* gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com <mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM *To:* Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..."
This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote:
+1 Volker - Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org <http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions <http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com mobile: +1.215.858.2257 <tel:%28215%29%20858-2257> ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
ICANN has a long history of reaching out and inviting interested organizations to participation in the multi stakeholder community, especially when they express interest via a letter, etc. The ICANN organization had specific outreach groups within for that purpose. I am alarmed at the attempts to both discredit this organization's viewpoint and at the suggestion that it's somehow inappropriate for ICANN and PDP leadership to encourage participation just because some people don't like the group that is expressing its opinion. Ayden, if you're worried about viewpoint balance, I suggest we take a look at the roster of this group and the SOIs to better understand if outreach is needed in any particular area and go from there. The answer is never LESS outreach, always MORE with the goal of meaningful, well-informed input. Kiran Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 4, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com<http://Cybertoolbelt.com> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
+1 Kiran, All input is valuable at this point. Theo On 4-3-2017 21:54, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
ICANN has a long history of reaching out and inviting interested organizations to participation in the multi stakeholder community, especially when they express interest via a letter, etc. The ICANN organization had specific outreach groups within for that purpose.
I am alarmed at the attempts to both discredit this organization's viewpoint and at the suggestion that it's somehow inappropriate for ICANN and PDP leadership to encourage participation just because some people don't like the group that is expressing its opinion.
Ayden, if you're worried about viewpoint balance, I suggest we take a look at the roster of this group and the SOIs to better understand if outreach is needed in any particular area and go from there. The answer is never LESS outreach, always MORE with the goal of meaningful, well-informed input.
Kiran
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 4, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com<http://Cybertoolbelt.com> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
+1 as well Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> 1999 K Street, NW<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> Washington, DC 20006-1101<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> 202.263.3284<tel:202.263.3284> direct dial 202.830.0330<tel:202.830.0330> fax 1221 Avenue of the Americas<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> New York, New York 10020-1001<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> 212.506.2345<tel:212.506.2345> direct dial On Mar 4, 2017, at 4:16 PM, theo geurts <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote: +1 Kiran, All input is valuable at this point. Theo On 4-3-2017 21:54, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote: ICANN has a long history of reaching out and inviting interested organizations to participation in the multi stakeholder community, especially when they express interest via a letter, etc. The ICANN organization had specific outreach groups within for that purpose. I am alarmed at the attempts to both discredit this organization's viewpoint and at the suggestion that it's somehow inappropriate for ICANN and PDP leadership to encourage participation just because some people don't like the group that is expressing its opinion. Ayden, if you're worried about viewpoint balance, I suggest we take a look at the roster of this group and the SOIs to better understand if outreach is needed in any particular area and go from there. The answer is never LESS outreach, always MORE with the goal of meaningful, well-informed input. Kiran Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Mar 4, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote: I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that. Chuck From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net><mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks. - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com><mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com><mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com><mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net><mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net><mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Very well said Greg. It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG. Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it. Chuck From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com><mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net><mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data "They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance. On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process. As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions). Greg On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com><mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker - Ayden -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net><mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more... Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data. The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.” Founded in 1893, the IACP (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.iacp.org&data=01%7C01%7CBWinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C02623fbb276547018c0a08d46343bc8b%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=q6z%2FKPjbkJ4Xtgi4rYL0MKzyhbbyrhy43%2FbAYJ5dE0E%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iacp.org&data=01%7C01%7CBWinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C02623fbb276547018c0a08d46343bc8b%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=cdm3FwLWcYB%2FvMPInNbHSElFbgmLbS6sBh6%2FH1ZvwiQ%3D&reserved=0>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct." The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.” The document is attached, and also at: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theiacp.... I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.) Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community. ********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com<http://Cybertoolbelt.com><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FCybertoolbelt.com&data=01%7C01%7CBWinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C02623fbb276547018c0a08d46343bc8b%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=uvjI9CD%2BJs%2F68E%2F4MZG8Gt72XN3VoUIE7XDOaRH4Eqg%3D&reserved=0> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. 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Yes - Kiran is spot on here. Well said Kiran. Richard Leaning RIPE NCC External Relations (Sent by iPhone)
On 4 Mar 2017, at 21:18, Winterfeldt, Brian J. <BWinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> wrote:
+1 as well
Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com 1999 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006-1101 202.263.3284 direct dial 202.830.0330 fax
1221 Avenue of the Americas New York, New York 10020-1001 212.506.2345 direct dial
On Mar 4, 2017, at 4:16 PM, theo geurts <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
+1 Kiran,
All input is valuable at this point.
Theo
On 4-3-2017 21:54, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote: ICANN has a long history of reaching out and inviting interested organizations to participation in the multi stakeholder community, especially when they express interest via a letter, etc. The ICANN organization had specific outreach groups within for that purpose.
I am alarmed at the attempts to both discredit this organization's viewpoint and at the suggestion that it's somehow inappropriate for ICANN and PDP leadership to encourage participation just because some people don't like the group that is expressing its opinion.
Ayden, if you're worried about viewpoint balance, I suggest we take a look at the roster of this group and the SOIs to better understand if outreach is needed in any particular area and go from there. The answer is never LESS outreach, always MORE with the goal of meaningful, well-informed input.
Kiran
Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m)
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
On Mar 4, 2017, at 11:41 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> wrote:
I suggest you invite them Ayden. If you are bothered by the fact that I asked staff to contact the association I will cancel my request of staff and encourage others to do that.
Chuck
From: Ayden Férdeline [mailto:icann@ferdeline.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 2:15 PM To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com>> Cc: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
If we are going to send an invite letter to this organisation requesting their participation, I am happy to provide a list of other organisations whose voices are missing from this WG so that ICANN staff can invite them to participate as well. Thanks.
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 4 March 2017 7:10 PM UTC Time: 4 March 2017 19:10 From: cgomes@verisign.com<mailto:cgomes@verisign.com> To: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>, icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com> <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>, vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>>
Very well said Greg.
It seems to me that we should reach out to them and invite them to have a representative or representatives join our WG.
Marika/Lisa – Would one of you please prepare an invitation letter and identify who and where we should send it.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:13 AM To: Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
"They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more..." This is no different than any other stakeholder (or group of stakeholders). Even GAC members. So their input should be accepted on an equal footing with any other input. There seems to be a curious amount of effort devoted to discounting this input, much of it based on identity (or opinions about that identity) rather than substance.
On top of giving due consideration to their input, it may also be appropriate to engage in outreach and engagement with this organization. Participation in the multistakeholder process would be more useful in the long run vs. issuing resolutions. Useful for them, useful for all of us, and useful for the process.
As an INGO of LE professionals, there may be no existing SO/AC that would be an appropriate "home" for the IOCP, which makes it all the more important that they understand they are welcome to participate, as well as to communicate in other ways (such as resolutions).
Greg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:54 AM Ayden Férdeline <icann@ferdeline.com<mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> wrote: +1 Volker
- Ayden
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data Local Time: 3 March 2017 9:21 AM UTC Time: 3 March 2017 09:21 From: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org>
Good thing that police are law "enforcement" not legislators. They can ask for anything they like, it is not like it has legal binding status. It is a wish list, nothing more...
Am 02.03.2017 um 19:35 schrieb Greg Aaron: The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.iacp.org&data=01%7C01%7CBWinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C02623fbb276547018c0a08d46343bc8b%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=q6z%2FKPjbkJ4Xtgi4rYL0MKzyhbbyrhy43%2FbAYJ5dE0E%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iacp.org&data=01%7C01%7CBWinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C02623fbb276547018c0a08d46343bc8b%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=cdm3FwLWcYB%2FvMPInNbHSElFbgmLbS6sBh6%2FH1ZvwiQ%3D&reserved=0>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theiacp....
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee CTC.06.t16 WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
********************************** Greg Aaron Vice-President, Product Management iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FCybertoolbel...> mobile: +1.215.858.2257 ********************************** The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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Thank s Greg Timely if you ask me. Remmy On Mar 2, 2017 7:36 PM, "Greg Aaron" <gca@icginc.com> wrote:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide “continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and… that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.”
Founded in 1893, the IACP (www.iacp.org) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data “would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner.”
The document is attached, and also at: http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime
Submitted by: Communications and Technology Committee
CTC.06.t16
WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference; and
WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and
WHEREAS, the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when conducting multiagency international investigations, including delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and
WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and
WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and
WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top level domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and
WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and
WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it
RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
mobile: +1.215.858.2257
**********************************
The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
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participants (23)
-
allison nixon -
Andrew Sullivan -
Ayden Férdeline -
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez G. -
Chris Pelling -
David Cake -
Gomes, Chuck -
Greg Aaron -
Greg Shatan -
John Bambenek -
John Horton -
Kiran Malancharuvil -
Maxim Alzoba -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Patrick Lenihan -
Remmy Nweke -
Richard Leaning -
Sam Lanfranco -
Stephanie Perrin -
theo geurts -
Victoria Sheckler -
Volker Greimann -
Winterfeldt, Brian J.