If practitioner experience isn't relevant (I agree it's not necessarily representative of the full universe), why should our notes include the factual claim from a member of the WG that registrants often choose not to respond? What is the factual, non-cherry picked evidence for that claim? Rebecca Tushnet Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School 703 593 6759 ________________________________ From: Gnso-rpm-documents <gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of BECKHAM, Brian <brian.beckham@wipo.int> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 12:19:00 PM To: Berry Cobb; gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Action & Notes: RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:00 UTC Thanks for these good notes Berry, Just one question/clarification, as to this note: “What type of mark was submitted in complaint? Qualitative experiences from Practitioners as it relates to what they see in regards to Standing, Grounds, Filing Period [Need to further develop these questions]” If I understand the way this is recorded correctly (this comes up at about minute 21 on the call), I raised concerns about standing/grounds experiences from practitioners, and suggested that instead that we simply look at whether the mark is listed in the decision (note that as a filing requirement/compliance review matter, there is a requirement that the complaint list the mark on which it is based). The same concern has been raised numerous times as to the standard of proof, namely that if we simply ask practitioners for their experiences there is a significant risk of cherry-picking for effect and focusing in only on a few select cases that people feel should have gone a different way, and we are not privy to the pleadings (and, frankly unfortunately many of the decisions are extremely light on text/reasoning). I would also like to see if the notes can reflect that in terms of notice (building on the provider obligations) that in many cases the registrant chooses not to respond, and this should not be mistaken as a “notice issue”. Thanks! Brian From: Gnso-rpm-documents [mailto:gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Berry Cobb Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 4:19 AM To: gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org Subject: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Action & Notes: RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:00 UTC Hi All, Please find attached the meeting notes and the updated the Complication of URS Discussion Documents that we reviewed yesterday. The notes highlight each sections the group reviewed with a summary of data sources. The data sources were then imported into a new column #5 labeled “Data Sources”. I tried to detail which data sources need to be passed to the Practitioners or the Providers, but I think we will want to spend a little time refining the actual request/questions we want them to take on. We can discuss more on our next call. Our next call is scheduled for 28 Feb. 2018 at 18:00 UTC. Thank you. B Berry A. Cobb 720.839.5735 mail@berrycobb.com<mailto:mail@berrycobb.com> @berrycobb From: Gnso-rpm-documents [mailto:gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Julie Bisland Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 17:48 To: gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org> Cc: gnso-secs@icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Recordings, Attendance, & AC Chat for RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call held Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 18:00 UTC Dear all, Please find the attendance and AC Chat transcript attached to this email, and the mp3 and Adobe Connect recording below for the RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call held Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 18:00 UTC Attendance and recordings of the call is posted on agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/7hi8B<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_7hi8B&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=cfBxzB93nP6817NZdleXTrCCDSWPs43djGRCsGiEbe8&e=> Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-urs-documents-21feb18-en.mp3<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Drpm-2Dreview-2Durs-2Ddocuments-2D21feb18-2Den.mp3&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=tv0r2Do0PJTI_dITML6Ey5bCXCr3p7fgI_MDUHvkEqQ&e=> Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p4ipaheruds/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__participate.icann.org_p4ipaheruds_-3FOWASP-5FCSRFTOKEN-3D9b19dba8ccfaa74a1f84aabd2cbf6b308ed82b52e0357dbfaf02810e749d2e3c&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=rMv1inohRZG7OcBRGzeaw-3XdfLGCpguCioxqKr8JJM&e=> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=tfAXvExKGQm_dLUmcPvKRPZjkN59C1yaAhUWzvHBaxM&s=flwO6Bbv0xVjqRxqQnmGYTtMtKgfTCxLKr3M-kAqYjM&e=> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-documents/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mm.icann.org_pipermail_gnso-2Drpm-2Ddocuments_&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=VuKlbYx-aboLLazLcdirpExvkIXB_zYTzhhEnlul6wM&e=> Main wiki page for the working group: https://community.icann.org/x/zRW8B<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_zRW8B&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=W-YXXQXBNunE6H0u4hTOsNYnwjYYlrRbGToVJdpZuNk&e=> Thank you. Kind regards, Julie

Hi Rebecca, As I said on the call, we are effectively trying to prove a negative, albeit apparently somehow with the assistance of data (which may prove elusive). What we can look at for example is whether the providers fulfil their notification obligations (which consist of notice by email, post, and fax to the registrant, tech and admin contacts, and any email address the complainant provides). The claim that some registrants may choose not to respond was not however "cherry-picked" (in that it was not made in reference to a specific "problem case"), it was merely put forward as an anecdotal consideration, and although it was not my claim I believe at that it was even put forward to suggest that we ought to be circumspect about assigning a problem where there may not be one (or at least less of one than the "data" would lead you to believe at first instance). Best regards, Brian From: Tushnet, Rebecca [mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 6:41 PM To: BECKHAM, Brian; Berry Cobb; gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Action & Notes: RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:00 UTC If practitioner experience isn't relevant (I agree it's not necessarily representative of the full universe), why should our notes include the factual claim from a member of the WG that registrants often choose not to respond? What is the factual, non-cherry picked evidence for that claim? Rebecca Tushnet Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School 703 593 6759 ________________________________ From: Gnso-rpm-documents <gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of BECKHAM, Brian <brian.beckham@wipo.int<mailto:brian.beckham@wipo.int>> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 12:19:00 PM To: Berry Cobb; gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Action & Notes: RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:00 UTC Thanks for these good notes Berry, Just one question/clarification, as to this note: "What type of mark was submitted in complaint? Qualitative experiences from Practitioners as it relates to what they see in regards to Standing, Grounds, Filing Period [Need to further develop these questions]" If I understand the way this is recorded correctly (this comes up at about minute 21 on the call), I raised concerns about standing/grounds experiences from practitioners, and suggested that instead that we simply look at whether the mark is listed in the decision (note that as a filing requirement/compliance review matter, there is a requirement that the complaint list the mark on which it is based). The same concern has been raised numerous times as to the standard of proof, namely that if we simply ask practitioners for their experiences there is a significant risk of cherry-picking for effect and focusing in only on a few select cases that people feel should have gone a different way, and we are not privy to the pleadings (and, frankly unfortunately many of the decisions are extremely light on text/reasoning). I would also like to see if the notes can reflect that in terms of notice (building on the provider obligations) that in many cases the registrant chooses not to respond, and this should not be mistaken as a "notice issue". Thanks! Brian From: Gnso-rpm-documents [mailto:gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Berry Cobb Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 4:19 AM To: gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Action & Notes: RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:00 UTC Hi All, Please find attached the meeting notes and the updated the Complication of URS Discussion Documents that we reviewed yesterday. The notes highlight each sections the group reviewed with a summary of data sources. The data sources were then imported into a new column #5 labeled "Data Sources". I tried to detail which data sources need to be passed to the Practitioners or the Providers, but I think we will want to spend a little time refining the actual request/questions we want them to take on. We can discuss more on our next call. Our next call is scheduled for 28 Feb. 2018 at 18:00 UTC. Thank you. B Berry A. Cobb 720.839.5735 mail@berrycobb.com<mailto:mail@berrycobb.com> @berrycobb From: Gnso-rpm-documents [mailto:gnso-rpm-documents-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Julie Bisland Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 17:48 To: gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-documents@icann.org> Cc: gnso-secs@icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-rpm-documents] Recordings, Attendance, & AC Chat for RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call held Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 18:00 UTC Dear all, Please find the attendance and AC Chat transcript attached to this email, and the mp3 and Adobe Connect recording below for the RPM Sub Team for URS Documents call held Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 18:00 UTC Attendance and recordings of the call is posted on agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/7hi8B<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_7hi8B&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=cfBxzB93nP6817NZdleXTrCCDSWPs43djGRCsGiEbe8&e=> Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-urs-documents-21feb18-en.mp3<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Drpm-2Dreview-2Durs-2Ddocuments-2D21feb18-2Den.mp3&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=tv0r2Do0PJTI_dITML6Ey5bCXCr3p7fgI_MDUHvkEqQ&e=> Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p4ipaheruds/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__participate.icann.org_p4ipaheruds_-3FOWASP-5FCSRFTOKEN-3D9b19dba8ccfaa74a1f84aabd2cbf6b308ed82b52e0357dbfaf02810e749d2e3c&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=rMv1inohRZG7OcBRGzeaw-3XdfLGCpguCioxqKr8JJM&e=> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=tfAXvExKGQm_dLUmcPvKRPZjkN59C1yaAhUWzvHBaxM&s=flwO6Bbv0xVjqRxqQnmGYTtMtKgfTCxLKr3M-kAqYjM&e=> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-documents/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mm.icann.org_pipermail_gnso-2Drpm-2Ddocuments_&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=VuKlbYx-aboLLazLcdirpExvkIXB_zYTzhhEnlul6wM&e=> Main wiki page for the working group: https://community.icann.org/x/zRW8B<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_zRW8B&d=DwMFAg&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=KnoWjcAyzIrdmL07qIDHDleOIfJoW_OWv0-WLc7gTvk&s=W-YXXQXBNunE6H0u4hTOsNYnwjYYlrRbGToVJdpZuNk&e=> Thank you. Kind regards, Julie