Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c>
+1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
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Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner's mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant - as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great - at least one would be most welcome. Best, Paul <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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<ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) +1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons - and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users - I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption - would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
Paul: While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH. Hope you'll take those views under advisement. Best, Philip Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. Best, Paul <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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<ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) +1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
Thanks Phil. I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. Best, Paul From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Paul: While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH. Hope you'll take those views under advisement. Best, Philip Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner's mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant - as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great - at least one would be most welcome. Best, Paul <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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<ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) +1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons - and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users - I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption - would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
Paul, Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information. How can these 2 issues be resolved? Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based. So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best, Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best, Paul
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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg
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Hi Paul, Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH… Best, Paul PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) The Paul, Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information. How can these 2 issues be resolved? Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based. So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? Sent from my iPad On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. Best, Paul From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es<mailto:Paul@law.es>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Paul: While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH. Hope you'll take those views under advisement. Best, Philip Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. Best, Paul <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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<ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) +1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
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<ashleyfurnituresofabed.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofabeds.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofas.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofatable.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresouthavenms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespartanburgsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespecials.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespokane.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespringfieldil.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespringfieldmo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresterlingva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestlouis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocator.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestores.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresugarland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresyracuseny.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretacoma.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretallahassee.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretampa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretoledoohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretucson.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretukwila.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretulsa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretupeloms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretuscaloosa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretvstand.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretvstands.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz>
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
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Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. More soon. Best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
<ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
________________________________
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To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law.
I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm.
More soon.
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed).
Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them?
A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
________________________________
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Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." Best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law.
I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm.
More soon.
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed).
Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them?
A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
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Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
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To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position. We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic."
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law.
I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm.
More soon.
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed).
Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them?
A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
<ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
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If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not. J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote: To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position. We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." > > Best, > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM > To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> > Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) > > To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. > Rebecca Tushnet > Georgetown Law > 703 593 6759 > > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >> Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. >> >> I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. >> >> More soon. >> >> Best, >> Paul >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM >> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate >> Strings for Notification) >> >> Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). >> >> Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? >> >> A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. >> Rebecca Tushnet >> Georgetown Law >> 703 593 6759 >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. >>> It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the >>> complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of >>> sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed >>> individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the >>> so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have >>> registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing >>> activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand >>> that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you >>> won’t find them in the TMCH… >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] >>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> The >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated >>> so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main >>> issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. >>> >>> >>> >>> You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without >>> the information. >>> >>> >>> >>> How can these 2 issues be resolved? >>> >>> >>> >>> Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps >>> trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain >>> unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and >>> argument instead of factually based. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list >>> have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the >>> utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited >>> utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible >>> that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had >>> been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul: >>> >>> >>> >>> While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful >>> actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar >>> domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view >>> that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact >>> word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader >>> in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice >>> warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How >>> would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an >>> exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while >>> we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain >>> registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in >>> the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely >>> there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM >>> variants in the TMCH. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope you'll take those views under advisement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, Philip >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion >>> of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to >>> strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the >>> arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a >>> claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief >>> and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief >>> (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture >>> Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a >>> determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear >>> which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full >>> dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of >>> hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking >>> for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at >>> least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, >>> thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> >>> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; 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>>> <ashleyfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecreditcardlogin.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecreditcardpayment.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturect.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecustomerservice.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecustomerservicenumber.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredallas.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredaybed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredaytonohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredeals.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredelaware.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredelivery.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredenhamsprings.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredenver.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredesk.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredesks.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroom.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroom2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomchairs.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningrooms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomset.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomsets.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomsets2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomsetsprices.xyz> ; 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<ashleyfurnituregreenwood.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturehagerstownmd.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureharrisburgpa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehattiesburgms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehawaii.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehaysks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureheadboards.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureheadquarters.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehenderson.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehickorync.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehobbsnm.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehome.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehomestorelocations.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehomestoreweeklyad.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehonolulu.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehouston.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehoustontx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehumbletx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehuntsvilleal.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureindustries.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureindustriesinc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejacksonmo.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksontn.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejacksonville.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksonvillefl.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksonvillenc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejobs.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejohnsoncitytn.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejohnstownpa.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturejonesboroar.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejoplinmo.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekansascity.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekatytx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekenoshawi.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekids.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekidsbedroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekilleen.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekilleentx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekingsizebeds.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekitchentables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureknoxvilletn.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelafayettela.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelakecharles.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelakecharlesla.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelakelandfl.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelamps.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelascruces.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelasvegas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelayaway.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelaytonutah.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathercouch.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleatherrecliners.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathersectional.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathersofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureledgewoodnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelexingtonky.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelimaohio.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelivingroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelivingroomset.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelivingroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelocation.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureloftbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelogo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelongviewtx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelosangeles.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelouisville.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelouisvilleky.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureloveseat.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelubbock.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelubbocktx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelufkintx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturema.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremaconga.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremanhattanks.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremankato.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremattress.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremattresses.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremattresssale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremedford.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturememorialdaysale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturememphis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturememphistn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremeridianms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremesaaz.xyz> ; 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>>> <ashleyfurnitureoutlethouston.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletlocations.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletmemphis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureoutletnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletstore.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepalmdesert.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureparamusnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureparts.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepaybill.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepayment.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepearland.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepensacola.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepeoriail.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepflugerville.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturephoenix.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturephonenumber.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepinevillenc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepittsburgh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureplano.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureplatformbed.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepocatello.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureporter.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureportercollection.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureportland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureprattvilleal.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepresidentsdaysale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureprices.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturepricesbedroomsets.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturequality.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturequincyil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureraleigh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureraleighnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliner.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerecliners.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliningsofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereno.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerepair.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementcushions.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementparts.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereturnpolicy.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereview.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereviews.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerichmondva.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureroanokeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerochestermn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerochesterny.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerockfordil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerugs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresacramento.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalead.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalemnh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalemoregon.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresales.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalesad.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalinaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalinas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresaltlakecity.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanantoniotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresandiego.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanjose.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanmarcos.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureschaumburg.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturescottsdale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureseattle.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresecaucusnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectional.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouch.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouches.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionals.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofa.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofas.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureshakopee.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureshowroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureshreveport.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresignaturedesign.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresilverdale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresiouxfalls.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresleepersofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresleighbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofabed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofabeds.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofatable.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresouthavenms.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespartanburgsc.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturespecials.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespokane.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldmo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresterlingva.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestlouis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturestorehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocations.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocator.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestores.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresugarland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresyracuseny.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretacoma.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretallahassee.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretampa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretoledoohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretucson.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretukwila.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretulsa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretupeloms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretuscaloosa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretvstand.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretvstands.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> >>> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; >>> <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] >>> On Behalf Of Paul Keating >>> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM >>> To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin >>> <psc@vlaw-dc.com> >>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM >>> To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my >>> threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in >>> the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? >>> >>> I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make >>> reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled >>> to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has >>> no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to >>> submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 >>> with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of >>> discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand >>> the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service >>> notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid >>> possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to >>> register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with >>> a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost >>> to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. >>> >>> >>> >>> For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark >>> Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in >>> the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet >>> users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> Senior Corporate Counsel >>> >>> Global Director, Intellectual Property >>> >>> Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs >>> >>> T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 >>> >>> M +1 425.241.1459 >>> Expedia, Inc. >>> 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale and Proposal: >>> >>> >>> >>> We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current >>> TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both >>> Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and >>> Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH >>> (TMCH >>> Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, >>> and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration >>> contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are >>> challenged after their registration. >>> >>> 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of >>> Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH >>> Trademark. >>> >>> 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may >>> proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain >>> Names that may be challenged. >>> >>> 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed >>> with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH >>> Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. >>> >>> 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain >>> Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the >>> earliest opportunity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: >>> >>> 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims >>> Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact >>> string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes >>> anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. >>> >>> In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service >>> in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn >>> of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process >>> -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or >>> continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – >>> would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the >>> same reasons, we propose the >>> following: >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program >>> should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avg.com&data=02%7C01%... >>> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: >>> 04/19/17 >>> >>> <ATT00001.c> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing >>> list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If >>> this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. >>> Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable >>> privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the >>> permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was >>> not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other >>> taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >> >> ________________________________ >> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or...
I completely agree with you. Like I said last week, any system is subject to gaming or abuse. That doesn't mean it's material or wholesale. jonathan matkowsky, vp – ip & brand security usa:: 1.347.467.1193 | office:: +972-(0)8-926-2766 emergency mobile:: +972-(0)54-924-0831 company reg. no. 514805332 11/1 nachal chever, modiin israel http://www.riskiq.com RiskIQ Technologies Ltd., a wholly-owned subsidiary of RiskIQ, Inc. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 5:26 PM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg < gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> wrote:
If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not.
J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com
On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law. georgetown.edu> wrote:
To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position.
We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." > > Best, > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM > To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> > Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) > > To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. > Rebecca Tushnet > Georgetown Law > 703 593 6759 > > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >> Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. >> >> I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. >> >> More soon. >> >> Best, >> Paul >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM >> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate >> Strings for Notification) >> >> Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). >> >> Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? >> >> A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. >> Rebecca Tushnet >> Georgetown Law >> 703 593 6759 >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. >>> It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the >>> complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of >>> sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed >>> individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the >>> so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have >>> registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing >>> activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand >>> that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you >>> won’t find them in the TMCH… >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] >>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> The >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated >>> so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main >>> issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. >>> >>> >>> >>> You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without >>> the information. >>> >>> >>> >>> How can these 2 issues be resolved? >>> >>> >>> >>> Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps >>> trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain >>> unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and >>> argument instead of factually based. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list >>> have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the >>> utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited >>> utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible >>> that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had >>> been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul: >>> >>> >>> >>> While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful >>> actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar >>> domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view >>> that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact >>> word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader >>> in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice >>> warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How >>> would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an >>> exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while >>> we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain >>> registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in >>> the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely >>> there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM >>> variants in the TMCH. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope you'll take those views under advisement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, Philip >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion >>> of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to >>> strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the >>> arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a >>> claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief >>> and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief >>> (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture >>> Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a >>> determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear >>> which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full >>> dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of >>> hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking >>> for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at >>> least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, >>> thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017 .xyz> >>> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; 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< ashleyfurnitureprices.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturepricesbedroomsets.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturequality.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturequincyil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureraleigh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureraleighnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliner.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerecliners.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliningsofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereno.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerepair.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementcushions.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementparts.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereturnpolicy.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereview.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereviews.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerichmondva.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureroanokeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerochestermn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerochesterny.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerockfordil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerugs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresacramento.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalead.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalemnh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalemoregon.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresales.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalesad.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalinaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalinas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresaltlakecity.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanantoniotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresandiego.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanjose.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanmarcos.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureschaumburg.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturescottsdale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureseattle.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresecaucusnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectional.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouch .xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouches.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionals.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofa.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofas.xyz> ; < ashleyfurnitureshakopee.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureshowroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureshreveport.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresignaturedesign.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresilverdale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresiouxfalls.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresleepersofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresleighbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofabed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofabeds.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofatable.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresouthavenms.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespartanburgsc.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturespecials.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespokane.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldmo.xyz> ; < ashleyfurnituresterlingva.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestlouis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturestorehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocations .xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocator.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestores.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresugarland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresyracuseny.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretacoma.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretallahassee.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretampa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretoledoohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretucson.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretukwila.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretulsa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretupeloms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretuscaloosa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretvstand.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretvstands.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach. xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture .xyz> >>> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; >>> <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] >>> On Behalf Of Paul Keating >>> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM >>> To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin >>> <psc@vlaw-dc.com> >>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM >>> To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my >>> threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in >>> the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? >>> >>> I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make >>> reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled >>> to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has >>> no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to >>> submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 >>> with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of >>> discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand >>> the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service >>> notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid >>> possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to >>> register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with >>> a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost >>> to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. >>> >>> >>> >>> For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark >>> Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in >>> the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet >>> users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> Senior Corporate Counsel >>> >>> Global Director, Intellectual Property >>> >>> Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs >>> >>> T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 >>> >>> M +1 425.241.1459 >>> Expedia, Inc. >>> 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale and Proposal: >>> >>> >>> >>> We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current >>> TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both >>> Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and >>> Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH >>> (TMCH >>> Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, >>> and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration >>> contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are >>> challenged after their registration. >>> >>> 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of >>> Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH >>> Trademark. >>> >>> 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may >>> proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain >>> Names that may be challenged. >>> >>> 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed >>> with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH >>> Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. >>> >>> 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain >>> Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the >>> earliest opportunity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: >>> >>> 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims >>> Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact >>> string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes >>> anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. >>> >>> In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service >>> in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn >>> of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process >>> -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or >>> continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – >>> would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the >>> same reasons, we propose the >>> following: >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program >>> should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - https://na01.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avg.com&data=02%7C01%7C% 7Cc19bdf149b194ac9d2f508d48abe02bd%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636285996073232075&sdata=ZDp%2FOL90lHLcyqMzj4%2FtD% 2FkkuipRtZojPbaqSD2ITpc%3D&reserved=0 >>> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: >>> 04/19/17 >>> >>> <ATT00001.c> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing >>> list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgnso- rpm-wg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc19bdf149b194ac9d2f508d48abe02bd% 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636285996073242088&sdata= XU4tkyzrv76cDCEd%2BMbtD8J3qjbxLaAHo7MttZi%2FuyY%3D&reserved=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If >>> this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. >>> Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable >>> privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the >>> permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was >>> not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other >>> taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgnso- rpm-wg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc19bdf149b194ac9d2f508d48abe02bd% 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636285996073242088&sdata= XU4tkyzrv76cDCEd%2BMbtD8J3qjbxLaAHo7MttZi%2FuyY%3D&reserved=0 >> >> ________________________________ >> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgnso- rpm-wg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc19bdf149b194ac9d2f508d48abe02bd% 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636285996073242088&sdata= XU4tkyzrv76cDCEd%2BMbtD8J3qjbxLaAHo7MttZi%2FuyY%3D&reserved=0
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+1 Original Message From: J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:26 PM To: Rebecca Tushnet; icannlists Reply To: J. Scott Evans Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not. J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote: To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position. We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." > > Best, > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM > To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> > Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) > > To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. > Rebecca Tushnet > Georgetown Law > 703 593 6759 > > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >> Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. >> >> I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. >> >> More soon. >> >> Best, >> Paul >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM >> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate >> Strings for Notification) >> >> Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). >> >> Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? >> >> A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. >> Rebecca Tushnet >> Georgetown Law >> 703 593 6759 >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. >>> It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the >>> complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of >>> sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed >>> individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the >>> so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have >>> registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing >>> activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand >>> that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you >>> won’t find them in the TMCH… >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] >>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> The >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated >>> so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main >>> issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. >>> >>> >>> >>> You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without >>> the information. >>> >>> >>> >>> How can these 2 issues be resolved? >>> >>> >>> >>> Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps >>> trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain >>> unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and >>> argument instead of factually based. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list >>> have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the >>> utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited >>> utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible >>> that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had >>> been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul: >>> >>> >>> >>> While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful >>> actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar >>> domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view >>> that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact >>> word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader >>> in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice >>> warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How >>> would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an >>> exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while >>> we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain >>> registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in >>> the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely >>> there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM >>> variants in the TMCH. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope you'll take those views under advisement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, Philip >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion >>> of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to >>> strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the >>> arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a >>> claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief >>> and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief >>> (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture >>> Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a >>> determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear >>> which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full >>> dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of >>> hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking >>> for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at >>> least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, >>> thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> >>> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappletonwi.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureapplication.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturearcadiawi.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturearlingtontx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureashevillenc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureathensga.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureatlanta.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureaugustaga.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaustin.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureaustintx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaz.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebarstools.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebatonrouge.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebed.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebedframes.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebedroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebedroomset.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebedroomsets.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebedroomsetsonsale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebeds.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebillingsmt.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureblackfriday.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureblackfridaysale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebloomingtonil.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureboise.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebookcase.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebowlinggreenky.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebozeman.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebrandonfl.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebuffalony.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturebunkbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturebunkbeds.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureburbank.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureburlington.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecanada.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecarbondaleil.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecareers.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecatalog.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturechairs.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturechaise.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturechampaignil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecharlestonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecharlestonwv.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecharlottenc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturechattanooga.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturechattanoogatn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecherryhillnj.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecheyenne.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecheyennewy.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturechicago.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecincinnati.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureclarksvilletn.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureclearance.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureclearancecenter.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureclearancesale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecoffeetable.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecoffeetables.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecollegestation.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecolorado.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecoloradosprings.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecolton.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecolumbiamo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecolumbiasc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecolumbusga.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecolumbusms.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecolumbusohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecommercial.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecompany.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecomplaints.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecomputerdesks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureconcord.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecookevilletn.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecorporate.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecorporateoffice.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecorpuschristi.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecottageretreat.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecouch.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecouches.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecoupon.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecoupons.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturecredit.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecreditcardlogin.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturecreditcardpayment.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturect.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecustomerservice.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturecustomerservicenumber.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredallas.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredaybed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredaytonohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredeals.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredelaware.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredelivery.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredenhamsprings.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredenver.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredesk.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredesks.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroom.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroom2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomchairs.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningrooms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomset.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomset2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomsets.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturediningroomsets2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomsetsprices.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomsetsprices2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomtable.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomtable2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomtables.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningroomtables2017.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturediningsets.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediningtable.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredirect.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturediscount.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredistributioncenter.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredothanal.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituredraper.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituredresser.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureecrums.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureelpaso.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureelpasotx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureendtables.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureentertainmentcenter.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureentertainmentcenters.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureevansville.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureevansvillein.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefairfieldca.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefairfieldnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefargo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefargond.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefarmingtonnm.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefayettevillenc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefinancing.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureflorenceky.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureflorencesc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureflorida.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureflyer.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefortmyers.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefortsmithar.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefortwayne.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefortworth.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefountainvalley.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefranklintn.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturefrederickmd.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefredericksburgva.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefreeholdnj.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefremont.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefresno.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefrisco.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturefuton.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturefutons.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituregastonianc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituregecapital.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituregonzales.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituregonzalesla.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituregrapevine.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituregreenbay.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituregreensboronc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituregreenvillenc.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituregreenvillesc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituregreenwood.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturehagerstownmd.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureharrisburgpa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehattiesburgms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehawaii.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehaysks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureheadboards.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureheadquarters.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehenderson.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehickorync.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehobbsnm.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehome.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehomestorelocations.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehomestoreweeklyad.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehonolulu.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehouston.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehoustontx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturehumbletx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturehuntsvilleal.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureindustries.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureindustriesinc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejacksonmo.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksontn.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejacksonville.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksonvillefl.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejacksonvillenc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejobs.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturejohnsoncitytn.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejohnstownpa.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturejonesboroar.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturejoplinmo.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekansascity.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekatytx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekenoshawi.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekids.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekidsbedroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekilleen.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekilleentx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturekingsizebeds.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturekitchentables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureknoxvilletn.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelafayettela.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelakecharles.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelakecharlesla.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelakelandfl.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelamps.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelascruces.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelasvegas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelayaway.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelaytonutah.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathercouch.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleatherrecliners.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathersectional.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureleathersofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureledgewoodnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelexingtonky.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelimaohio.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelivingroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelivingroomset.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelivingroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelocation.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureloftbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelogo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelongviewtx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelosangeles.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelouisville.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelouisvilleky.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureloveseat.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelubbock.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturelubbocktx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturelufkintx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturema.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremaconga.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremanhattanks.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremankato.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremattress.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremattresses.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremattresssale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremedford.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturememorialdaysale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturememphis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturememphistn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremeridianms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremesaaz.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremiami.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremichigan.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremiddletownny.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremidlandtx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremilwaukee.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremiramar.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremishawaka.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremobileal.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituremonroela.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremooresvillenc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremurfreesborotn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituremyrtlebeach.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturenaperville.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturenaplesfl.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturenashvilletn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturenewbraunfels.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureneworleans.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturenj.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturenocreditcheck.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturenorthshore.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturenyc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureofallonmo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureonline.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureonlinepayment.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureorlando.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureottoman.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletcharlottenc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutlethouston.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletlocations.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletmemphis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureoutletnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureoutletstore.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepalmdesert.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureparamusnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureparts.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepaybill.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepayment.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepearland.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepensacola.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepeoriail.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepflugerville.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturephoenix.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturephonenumber.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepinevillenc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepittsburgh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureplano.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureplatformbed.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturepocatello.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureporter.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureportercollection.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureportland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureprattvilleal.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturepresidentsdaysale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureprices.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturepricesbedroomsets.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturequality.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturequincyil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureraleigh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureraleighnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliner.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerecliners.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerecliningsofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereno.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerepair.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementcushions.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereplacementparts.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereturnpolicy.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturereview.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturereviews.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerichmondva.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureroanokeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerochestermn.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerochesterny.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturerockfordil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturerugs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresacramento.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalead.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalemnh.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalemoregon.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresales.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalesad.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresalinaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresalinas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresaltlakecity.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanantoniotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresandiego.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresanjose.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresanmarcos.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureschaumburg.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturescottsdale.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureseattle.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresecaucusnj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectional.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouch.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalcouches.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionals.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofa.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnituresectionalsofas.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureshakopee.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurnitureshowroom.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureshreveport.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresignaturedesign.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresilverdale.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresiouxfalls.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresleepersofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresleighbed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofabed.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofabeds.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresofas.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresofatable.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresouthavenms.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespartanburgsc.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturespecials.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturespokane.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldil.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturespringfieldmo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresterlingva.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestlouis.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturestorehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocations.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturestorelocator.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturestores.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituresugarland.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituresyracuseny.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretables.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretacoma.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretallahassee.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretampa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretoledoohio.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretucson.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretukwila.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretulsa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretupeloms.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretuscaloosa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretvstand.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituretvstands.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach.xyz> >>> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; >>> <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> >>> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; >>> <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; >>> <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; >>> <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] >>> On Behalf Of Paul Keating >>> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM >>> To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin >>> <psc@vlaw-dc.com> >>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM >>> To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my >>> threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in >>> the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? >>> >>> I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make >>> reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled >>> to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has >>> no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to >>> submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 >>> with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of >>> discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand >>> the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service >>> notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid >>> possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to >>> register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with >>> a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost >>> to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. >>> >>> >>> >>> For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark >>> Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in >>> the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet >>> users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> Senior Corporate Counsel >>> >>> Global Director, Intellectual Property >>> >>> Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs >>> >>> T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 >>> >>> M +1 425.241.1459 >>> Expedia, Inc. >>> 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale and Proposal: >>> >>> >>> >>> We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current >>> TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both >>> Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and >>> Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH >>> (TMCH >>> Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, >>> and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration >>> contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are >>> challenged after their registration. >>> >>> 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of >>> Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH >>> Trademark. >>> >>> 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may >>> proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain >>> Names that may be challenged. >>> >>> 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed >>> with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH >>> Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. >>> >>> 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain >>> Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the >>> earliest opportunity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: >>> >>> 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims >>> Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact >>> string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes >>> anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. >>> >>> In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service >>> in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn >>> of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process >>> -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or >>> continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – >>> would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the >>> same reasons, we propose the >>> following: >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program >>> should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avg.com&data=02%7C01%... >>> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: >>> 04/19/17 >>> >>> <ATT00001.c> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing >>> list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If >>> this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. >>> Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable >>> privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the >>> permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was >>> not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other >>> taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >> >> ________________________________ >> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This transmission, and any attachments, may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. 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+1 Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> 1999 K Street, NW<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> Washington, DC 20006-1101<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> 202.263.3284<tel:202.263.3284> direct dial 202.830.0330<tel:202.830.0330> fax 1221 Avenue of the Americas<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> New York, New York 10020-1001<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> 212.506.2345<tel:212.506.2345> direct dial On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:26 PM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> wrote: If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not. J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com<mailto:jsevans@adobe.com> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.adobe.com&data=01%7C0... On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position. We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." Best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. More soon. Best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Hi Paul, Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH… Best, Paul PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) The Paul, Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information. How can these 2 issues be resolved? Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based. So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? Sent from my iPad On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. Best, Paul From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es<mailto:Paul@law.es>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Paul: While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH. Hope you'll take those views under advisement. Best, Philip Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com<mailto:icannlists@winston.com>> wrote: Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. Best, Paul <ashleybedroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroom2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomchairs2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomfurniture2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomsets2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtable2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtables2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset.xyz> ; <ashleydiningroomtableset2017.xyz> ; <ashleydiscountfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfinefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilene.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureabilenetx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureaccentchairs.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnituread.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureads.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealbuquerque.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealexandriala.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturealtoonapa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillo.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureamarillotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureanchorage.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureandersonsc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureappleton.xyz> ; 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<ashleyfurnituretylertx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureutah.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevictoriatx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturevirginiabeach.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewacotx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewarehousehours.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewebsite.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureweeklyad.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitafallstx.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewichitaks.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilkesbarrepa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewilmingtonnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewinstonsalemnc.xyz> ; <ashleyfurniturewoodbridgeva.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyorkpa.xyz> ; <ashleyfurnitureyumaaz.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleyhomefurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleykidsfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleylivingroomfurniture.xyz> ; <ashleyofficefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturecreditcard.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehomestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturehours.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturelocations.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturenj.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnitureoutlet.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturepayment.xyz> ; <ashleysfurnituresanantonio.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturestore.xyz> ; <ashleysfurniturewarehouse.xyz> ; <ashleyshomefurniture.xyz> ; <ashleysignaturefurniture.xyz> ; <blackfridayashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <cheapashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashley2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <diningroomsetsatashleyfurniture2017.xyz> ; <discontinuedashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <discountashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <furnitureashley.xyz> ; <geashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <isashleyfurnituregood.xyz> ; <lauraashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz> ; <whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) +1 From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VLawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com<mailto:migraham@expedia.com>> wrote: Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. Michael R. Graham Michael R. Graham Senior Corporate Counsel Global Director, Intellectual Property Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com<mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com> Rationale and Proposal: We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration. 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark. 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged. 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity. Proposal: 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following: Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avg.com&data=02%7C01%... Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: 04/19/17 <ATT00001.c> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... __________________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Completely agree.
On Apr 24, 2017, at 20:26, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> wrote:
If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not.
J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com
On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position.
We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic."
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law.
I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm.
More soon.
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed).
Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them?
A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: Hi Paul,
Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you won’t find them in the TMCH…
Best,
Paul
PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
The
Paul,
Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis.
I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed.
You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without the information.
How can these 2 issues be resolved?
Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and argument instead of factually based.
So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok?
Sent from my iPad
On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil.
I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter.
Best,
Paul
From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
Paul:
While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants.
I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant.
Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM variants in the TMCH.
Hope you'll take those views under advisement.
Best, Philip
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote:
Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, thwarted registrant. While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome.
Best,
Paul
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From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
+1
From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification)
As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms?
I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law.
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
1155 F Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20004
202-559-8597/Direct
202-559-8750/Fax
202-255-6172/Cell
Twitter: @VLawDC
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham@expedia.com> wrote:
Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict.
For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service.
Michael R. Graham
Michael R. Graham
Senior Corporate Counsel
Global Director, Intellectual Property
Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs
T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251
M +1 425.241.1459 Expedia, Inc. 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com
Rationale and Proposal:
We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners:
1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH (TMCH Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are challenged after their registration.
2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH Trademark.
3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain Names that may be challenged.
4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts.
5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the earliest opportunity.
Proposal:
1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks.
In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the same reasons, we propose the following:
Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs.
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+1 -------- Original Message -------- From: "J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Date: Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 8:25 PM To: Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> CC: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) If “cloud” is a registered trademark for clothing, it is (under the rules that exist today) entitled to purchase a Sunrise Registration. We do know that the use of Sunrise Registrations was relatively minimal. I am willing to concede that some parties may have abused the system by obtaining trademark registrations in order to game the system. That said, I do not think that we have seen any evidence of wholesale abuse. Even if 1,500 of the 36,000 or so trademarks registered in the TMCH are for dictionary terms that are generic for some goods and arbitrary for others THAT fact alone is not indicative of abuse. I get that there is a contingent of folks on this WG that have a fundamental philosophical problem with Sunrise Registrations. That argument was flogged to death in 2009 – 2010. Let’s move on. Kurt’s proposal of going back to IRT recommendations for a registry to choose which RPM (Sunrise or Claims Notice) is worth discussing. The elimination of either RPM is not. J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com<http://www.adobe.com> On 4/23/17, 7:59 PM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote: To the list: I'm sorry this continues; I really would like to find sources of evidence about what the consequences of extending match criteria for claims notices would be. I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. If we are discussing what counts as evidence, however, then for purposes of justifying expanding match criteria, perhaps we need some names of actual individuals who did cybersquat because of lack of a match notice, but would not have done so had they received a match notice. Or, we could agree that circumstantial evidence is also evidence, which is my preferred position. We could also talk more about how, if at all, we would deal with "cloud" and "hotel" and the like if match criteria were expanded. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: > Thanks for the clarification Rebecca. I'm not sure how to respond to it since it seems that you are disputing the fact that no individual harmed by claims/sunrise has been identified to date and the fact that the TMCH does not contain the names of any such individuals. I guess when facts are denied, I agree that we have "exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic." > > Best, > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:08 PM > To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> > Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) > > To be clear, we disagree about the identification of harm from existing matches (and what else might be available with more information about the TMCH); I am merely suggesting that we talk about the proposal named in the email header at this point. > Rebecca Tushnet > Georgetown Law > 703 593 6759 > > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:46 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >> Thanks Rebecca. I will give some thought to your questions and come back to you with a substantive response; although I admit we are delving into psychology more than domain name law. >> >> I am, however, please to see us moving away from discussions of unilaterally reducing/eliminating sunrise/claims (as opposed to Kurt's proposal of discussing whether or not a new balance between the two might be in order), especially since we have yet to identify a single individual claiming harm. >> >> More soon. >> >> Best, >> Paul >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rebecca Tushnet [mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:10 PM >> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >> Cc: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate >> Strings for Notification) >> >> Since we seem to have exhausted the possibility of common ground on that topic, let me try to get back to a related one: what is the evidence of harm at which the proposal to extend the match criteria is directed? Where, other than URS adjudications (which to be helpful would have to be matched to TMCH entries, to see if a match might even have occurred in the first place), could we look for evidence of the problem? To take an example that has already been raised, I'm not clear whether ASHLEY is in the TMCH, which it would have to have been to have returned a match for the range of ASHLEY formatives (or ASHLEY FURNITURE and ASHLEY BEDROOM and maybe a few others would have been needed). >> >> Especially since I've seen people talking about "normalizing" matches so that people with good reasons will continue with their registrations anyway, what is the evidence that most individual registrants are repeat players who will understand instead of just abandoning in response to a match, as the current practice seems to be? What will the cost be in terms of reduced deterrence if in fact matches become so common that people learn to blow past them? >> >> A while ago I suggested some empirical research into the effects of the current wording of the match notice; there didn't seem to be much interest then, but it still seems relevant. >> Rebecca Tushnet >> Georgetown Law >> 703 593 6759 >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:45 PM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your note. I guess I’m not understanding your comment. >>> It appears that you are tying together access to TMCH data with the >>> complete failure of those advocating for a reduction/elimination of >>> sunrise/claims to be able to produce a single example of a harmed >>> individual. The TMCH doesn’t contain any examples of the >>> so-far-unfound hypothetical of an individual who would have >>> registered and used a second level domain name for non-infringing >>> activities but for the existence of sunrise/claims. I understand >>> that it is entirely possible that no such individual exists, but you >>> won’t find them in the TMCH… >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> PS: While more than one would be great – at least one would be most welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Paul Keating [mailto:paul@law.es] >>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:20 AM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> The >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your questions are well taken. These issues need to be investigated >>> so that we can separate fact from supposition and argument. The main >>> issue I have been having is obtaining the facts necessary to undertaken the analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have kept asking for transparency. That is opposed. >>> >>> >>> >>> You keep asking for evidence of abuse. I can't give you that without >>> the information. >>> >>> >>> >>> How can these 2 issues be resolved? >>> >>> >>> >>> Transparency is the only answer. If one side or the other keeps >>> trying to obscure facts (for whatever reason) the issue will remain >>> unresolved and the conclusions will remain victim of disposition and >>> argument instead of factually based. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, lets get the information and see which position is correct. Ok? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2017, at 23:49, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it may be too soon to judge the TM+50. Others on this list >>> have already pointed out the effects on high Sunrises prices on the >>> utility of Sunrises for brand owners and have noted the limited >>> utility inherent in a limited claims period. It is entirely possible >>> that TM+50 would have been much more frequently used if the RPMs had >>> been implemented with their spirit intact and not just their letter. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Phil Corwin [mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:56 PM >>> To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> >>> Cc: Paul Keating <Paul@law.es>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com>; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul: >>> >>> >>> >>> While I am of course aware of the UDRP precedent of successful >>> actions brought against trademark + term or confusingly similar >>> domains that were being used in bad faith, I am of the personal view >>> that preventative rights should be narrowly based in the exact >>> word(s) that is/are trademarked, while curative rights can be broader >>> in responding to the, as you observed, virtually endless list of potential variants. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am also wary of a potential registrant receiving a TM claims notice >>> warning generated by a TM variant in which no legal rights exist. How >>> would we even word the warning if we expanded the scope beyond an >>> exact match of a mark meeting TMCH registration standards? And, while >>> we don't know the exact percentage of non-infringing domain >>> registrations that would be abandoned as a result, it would likely be significant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, given the very low percentage of TM+50 terms registered in >>> the TMCH, despite their actual use in cybersquatting, it's unlikely >>> there's would be substantial use of the ability to register TM >>> variants in the TMCH. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope you'll take those views under advisement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, Philip >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:59 AM, icannlists <icannlists@winston.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Phil. There is UDRP precedent for the idea that the inclusion >>> of certain industry related words in conjunction with a mark tends to >>> strongly lead back to the brand owner and its trademarks within the >>> arena in which the brand owner’s mark is strongest. Given that, a >>> claims notice for trademark + related terms can help deter mischief >>> and a Sunrise for trademark + related terms fully prohibit mischief >>> (at least for that variant – as we all know from Ashley Furniture >>> Industries, Inc. v. Fahri Hadikusuma et al. the variants that a >>> determines cybersquatter can come up with are endless as are the enforcement expenses that Trademark owners have to bear >>> which indirectly subsidize the domain name industry). For the full >>> dramatic effect, I copy in below the Fahri variants as an example of >>> hardship. In so doing, I join the growing chorus of voices asking >>> for those wishing to scale back Claims and Sunrise to produce at >>> least one actual example of hardship on the part of a good faith, >>> thwarted registrant. 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>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://furnitureashley.xyz&c=E,1,br4m...> ; <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://geashleyfurniture.xyz&c=E,1,Qm...> ; >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://gecapitalashleyfurniture.xyz&c...> ; <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://isashleyfurnituregood.xyz&c=E,...> ; >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://lauraashleyfurniture.xyz&c=E,1...> ; <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://renttoownashleyfurniture.xyz&c...> ; >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://whereisashleyfurnituremade.xyz...> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org >>> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] >>> On Behalf Of Paul Keating >>> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:02 AM >>> To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com>; Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Phil Corwin >>> <psc@vlaw-dc.com> >>> Date: Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:29 AM >>> To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham@expedia.com> >>> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 >>> (Appropriate Strings for Notification) >>> >>> >>> >>> As we are tasked with reviewing RIGHTS Protection Mechanisms, my >>> threshold question to those proposing expansion of the RPMs rooted in >>> the TMCH is what Rights exist in trademark+ terms? >>> >>> I make this inquiry with a firm belief that ICANN should make >>> reasonable accommodation to protect recognized legal rights, coupled >>> to a strong view that ICANN is not a legislature for the DNS and has >>> no remit to confer rights that go beyond existing law. >>> >>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal >>> >>> Virtualaw LLC >>> >>> 1155 F Street, NW >>> >>> Suite 1050 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20004 >>> >>> 202-559-8597/Direct >>> >>> 202-559-8750/Fax >>> >>> 202-255-6172/Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> Twitter: @VLawDC >>> >>> >>> >>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Michael Graham (ELCA) >>> <migraham@expedia.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Pardon the brevity and lateness of the following, but I wanted to >>> submit the following Rationale and Proposals in regard to Question 10 >>> with the understanding that they will undoubtedly be subject of >>> discussion and exposition. The intent of this Proposal is to expand >>> the scope of domain name strings subject to Trademark Claims Service >>> notices in order to help good faith domain name applicants avoid >>> possible conflict and expense when they inadvertently seek to >>> register a domain name that includes and could create confusion with >>> a Trademark registered in the TMCH. This will avoid unnecessary cost >>> to the Applicant, and enable it to either prepare for or ensure that its planned use of a domain name will not lead to conflict. >>> >>> >>> >>> For the same reasons – and because of the success of the Trademark >>> Claims procedure in deterring bad faith domain name registrations in >>> the new gTLDs in the interests of both trademark owners and Internet >>> users – I also propose expanding the scope of the Trademark Claims Service. >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael R. Graham >>> >>> Senior Corporate Counsel >>> >>> Global Director, Intellectual Property >>> >>> Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs >>> >>> T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251 >>> >>> M +1 425.241.1459 >>> Expedia, Inc. >>> 333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004 MiGraham@Expedia.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale and Proposal: >>> >>> >>> >>> We (the RPM Working Group) have identified a minor change in current >>> TMCH Trademark Claims Service practices that could benefit both >>> Domain Name Applicants and Trademark Owners: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. We have become aware that Domain Name Applicants (Applicants) and >>> Trademark Owners who have registered their trademarks in the TMCH >>> (TMCH >>> Trademarks) have both sustained unnecessary expense in time, effort, >>> and planning when Domain Names that have proceeded to registration >>> contain strings that are confusingly similar to TMCH Trademarks are >>> challenged after their registration. >>> >>> 2. Current Trademark Claims Notice rules limit the issuance of >>> Notifications to applications that consist solely of the exact TMCH >>> Trademark. >>> >>> 3. As a result, Applicants are unaware of potential conflicts and may >>> proceed with expending time, money and planning on the use of Domain >>> Names that may be challenged. >>> >>> 4. Applicants should have the ability to consider whether to proceed >>> with their planning and use of Domain Names in light of TMCH >>> Trademarks at the earliest opportunity in order to conserve fees and planning efforts. >>> >>> 5. Trademark Owners should have the ability to identify both Domain >>> Names that could create confusion and those that will not at the >>> earliest opportunity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: >>> >>> 1. The TMCH Rules should be revised to require Trademark Claims >>> Notices be issued not only for Domain Names that consist of the Exact >>> string of TMCH Trademarks, but also of any Domain Name that includes >>> anywhere in the string the Exact string of TMCH Trademarks. >>> >>> In addition, we believe the success of the Trademark Claims Service >>> in enabling both trademark owners and domain name applicants to learn >>> of potential conflicts from an early stage in the application process >>> -- when changes can be made or applications either abandoned or >>> continued with the least expense of time, effort, or disruption – >>> would support expansion of the service beyond the new gTLDs. For the >>> same reasons, we propose the >>> following: >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal: The Trademark Claims Service and TMCH registration program >>> should be expanded to apply to all Legacy TLDs as well as New gTLDs. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.avg.com&data=02%7C01%... >>> Version: 2016.0.8012 / Virus Database: 4769/14347 - Release Date: >>> 04/19/17 >>> >>> <ATT00001.c> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing >>> list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If >>> this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. >>> Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable >>> privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the >>> permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was >>> not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other >>> taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list >>> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... >> >> ________________________________ >> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg This message contains information which may be confidential and legally privileged. Unless you are the addressee, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone this message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please send me an email and delete this message. Any tax advice provided by VLP is for your use only and cannot be used to avoid tax penalties or for promotional or marketing purposes.
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other..... I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former. Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I have NO desire to expand any rights accorded to trademark holders. I believe they have been expanded beyond that which is reasonable or supportable given legal and policy constraints. Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 20:32, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
That's because it came from words that weren't mine.
If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote: I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
Paul: Here again, you are overstating. Trademark owners are not seeking to expand their rights. On the contrary, they are looking for scalable solutions that recognize the rights afforded to them by jurisdicdtions around the world. J. Scott J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com On 4/25/17, 12:37 PM, "Paul Keating" <paul@law.es> wrote: I have NO desire to expand any rights accorded to trademark holders. I believe they have been expanded beyond that which is reasonable or supportable given legal and policy constraints. Sent from my iPad > On 25 Apr 2017, at 20:32, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote: > > That's because it came from words that weren't mine. > > If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" > proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we > have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the > procedure for determining that would be. > Rebecca Tushnet > Georgetown Law > 703 593 6759 > > >> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote: >> I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other..... >> >> I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. >> >> As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. >> >> I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former. >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote: >>> >>> I don't in fact think that the >>> TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred >>> from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has >>> been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant >>> evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie >>> don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
+1 Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> 1999 K Street, NW<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> Washington, DC 20006-1101<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> 202.263.3284<tel:202.263.3284> direct dial 202.830.0330<tel:202.830.0330> fax 1221 Avenue of the Americas<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> New York, New York 10020-1001<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> 212.506.2345<tel:212.506.2345> direct dial On Apr 25, 2017, at 4:32 PM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> wrote: Paul: Here again, you are overstating. Trademark owners are not seeking to expand their rights. On the contrary, they are looking for scalable solutions that recognize the rights afforded to them by jurisdicdtions around the world. J. Scott J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com<mailto:jsevans@adobe.com> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.adobe.com&data=01%7C0... On 4/25/17, 12:37 PM, "Paul Keating" <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote: I have NO desire to expand any rights accorded to trademark holders. I believe they have been expanded beyond that which is reasonable or supportable given legal and policy constraints. Sent from my iPad On 25 Apr 2017, at 20:32, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote: I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other..... I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former. Sent from my iPad On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com<mailto:SAustin@vlplawgroup.com>> wrote: I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... __________________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Hi Rebecca and all, We do believe there is merit in expanding the matching rules for the TMCH, at least with respect to Trademark Claims services. We would support expanded matching for Trademark Claims such that any requested domain name registration containing the TMCH-recorded mark, and not just exact matches, would receive a Claims Notice, and where such a registration were to be completed, the mark owner would receive a corresponding Notice of Registered Name (NORN). To illustrate, if the recorded mark is EXXON, we would support Trademark Claims/NORNs for such potential domain name registrations as: · EXXON.TLD (exact match) · WWWEXXON1.TLD (mark contained) · EXXONGAS.TLD (mark + keyword / mark contained) · EXXON-GAS.TLD (mark+keyword / mark contained) · EXXONERATE.TLD (mark contained, possible typo) Again, the Claims notice would merely apprise the prospective registrant of claimed rights in the trademark EXXON, and it would be up to the registrant whether to proceed or abandon the registration. Similarly, if the registrant were to proceed, and the trademark owner received the corresponding NORN, it would be aware of the registration and could determine if any enforcement action were necessary. This does not appear to be any expansion of existing trademark rights, as it merely triggers notices where the trademark is implicated. Again, our thoughts as outlined above are limited to Trademark Claims. However, we would be interested in considering others’ thoughts on expanded matching rules for purposes of Sunrise, and take no specific position at this time either to reject this possibility or to support it. Best regards, Brian Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> 1999 K Street, NW<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> Washington, DC 20006-1101<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> 202.263.3284<tel:202.263.3284> direct dial 202.830.0330<tel:202.830.0330> fax 1221 Avenue of the Americas<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> New York, New York 10020-1001<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> 212.506.2345<tel:212.506.2345> direct dial On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote: I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other..... I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former. Sent from my iPad On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com<mailto:SAustin@vlplawgroup.com>> wrote: I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... __________________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
+1 Brian. From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Winterfeldt, Brian J. Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:17 PM To: Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Hi Rebecca and all, We do believe there is merit in expanding the matching rules for the TMCH, at least with respect to Trademark Claims services. We would support expanded matching for Trademark Claims such that any requested domain name registration containing the TMCH-recorded mark, and not just exact matches, would receive a Claims Notice, and where such a registration were to be completed, the mark owner would receive a corresponding Notice of Registered Name (NORN). To illustrate, if the recorded mark is EXXON, we would support Trademark Claims/NORNs for such potential domain name registrations as: * EXXON.TLD (exact match) * WWWEXXON1.TLD (mark contained) * EXXONGAS.TLD (mark + keyword / mark contained) * EXXON-GAS.TLD (mark+keyword / mark contained) * EXXONERATE.TLD (mark contained, possible typo) Again, the Claims notice would merely apprise the prospective registrant of claimed rights in the trademark EXXON, and it would be up to the registrant whether to proceed or abandon the registration. Similarly, if the registrant were to proceed, and the trademark owner received the corresponding NORN, it would be aware of the registration and could determine if any enforcement action were necessary. This does not appear to be any expansion of existing trademark rights, as it merely triggers notices where the trademark is implicated. Again, our thoughts as outlined above are limited to Trademark Claims. However, we would be interested in considering others' thoughts on expanded matching rules for purposes of Sunrise, and take no specific position at this time either to reject this possibility or to support it. Best regards, Brian Brian J. Winterfeldt Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice Mayer Brown LLP bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com> 1999 K Street, NW<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> Washington, DC 20006-1101<x-apple-data-detectors://2/2> 202.263.3284<tel:202.263.3284> direct dial 202.830.0330<tel:202.830.0330> fax 1221 Avenue of the Americas<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> New York, New York 10020-1001<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> 212.506.2345<tel:212.506.2345> direct dial On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote: I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other..... I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former. Sent from my iPad On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com<mailto:SAustin@vlplawgroup.com>> wrote: I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs. _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... __________________________________________________________________________ This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us. I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH. This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace. Greg On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet < Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
That's because it came from words that weren't mine.
If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg
-- *Greg Shatan *C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
Dear all, To facilitate the Working Group’s deliberation of this proposal (to expand the TMCH matching rules for Claims Notices), staff offers the following notes: o The “identical match” test was proposed in the first IRT Report (April 2009) and retained throughout the development of the Applicant Guidebook o In the various public comment periods for the AGB and, most recently, for the RPM Staff Paper (February 2015) and the Issue Report for this PDP (October 2015), numerous comments were received supporting expansion of the matching rules to include plurals, mark+keyword, “mark contained”, etc. o The GAC, in requesting an independent review of the TMCH in 2011, had specifically raised the question of matching rules for consideration o The recent (February 2017) revised report from the Analysis Group reviewing the TMCH found that it was not able to find clear evidence – based on the data available to it and the analysis it performed – that the benefits outweighed the costs of expansion. They did, however, note that if trademark owners value registrations that are variants of their marks but are unable to monitor these registrations, expansion may be useful. In discussing the proposal for TMCH Question 10, will it be helpful to review the Analysis Group data and findings, and to consider what, if any, are the increased needs or new or additional concerns over the past few years that may support expansion, or the contrary? Cheers Mary From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 16:45 To: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us. I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH. This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace. Greg On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com<mailto:SAustin@vlplawgroup.com>> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
Your kindness is greatly appreciated. Now that we're actually talking about the topic: Do we have any evidence on the extent of the problem the proposal addresses? I've suggested URS decisions as a potential source of information; are there others? Greg's suggestions for limits on matches are quite interesting, and would at least partially address the ELLE/Cottonelle/Seller problem--a much bigger problem for the common words like those in the top ten from the audit than for EXXON. Especially given how Deloitte has interpreted some of the current requirements, I'd want to be very certain where the relevant keyword lists would come from. The registration information seems the least vulnerable to gaming, especially if the TMCH remains secret, though we might then consider the effects on the need for proof of use. Anything that requires someone to develop a separate list (and verify it? or would Deloitte be allowed to take the submitter's word?) might increase the expense of the TMCH, which seems like a concern. I have more concerns about dealing with typos, because that can wander quickly into very broad territory. The suggestion that the registrant provide typos seems the most limited, but would the registrant be limited to any number of typos submitted, or any amount of transformation? (E.g., could a registrant of Pfeffernusse submit Fefernus? Would whether this is a plausible typo, versus the owner of "cloud" submitting "climb," be evaluated by anyone?). Greg mentions a "formula or process" for generating typo matches--does any such automated program already exist? How much would it cost to create one? Data about the TMCH +50 may also be relevant here in terms of the magnitude of the problem to be addressed, or the model of the TMCH +50 where the registrant identifies a previously abused string. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us.
I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH.
This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace.
Greg
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
That's because it came from words that weren't mine.
If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg
--
Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
To expressly state what I've implied, UDRP decisions are another source of information, and a better one in my view. We have years of UDRP decisions before the New gTLD Program, and numerous decisions involving New gTLDs. UDRP filings and decisions are meatier as well, so we'll have access to contemporaneous analysis. ACPA cases should be useful as well. Greg On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:21 PM Rebecca Tushnet < Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
Your kindness is greatly appreciated. Now that we're actually talking about the topic: Do we have any evidence on the extent of the problem the proposal addresses? I've suggested URS decisions as a potential source of information; are there others?
Greg's suggestions for limits on matches are quite interesting, and would at least partially address the ELLE/Cottonelle/Seller problem--a much bigger problem for the common words like those in the top ten from the audit than for EXXON. Especially given how Deloitte has interpreted some of the current requirements, I'd want to be very certain where the relevant keyword lists would come from. The registration information seems the least vulnerable to gaming, especially if the TMCH remains secret, though we might then consider the effects on the need for proof of use. Anything that requires someone to develop a separate list (and verify it? or would Deloitte be allowed to take the submitter's word?) might increase the expense of the TMCH, which seems like a concern.
I have more concerns about dealing with typos, because that can wander quickly into very broad territory. The suggestion that the registrant provide typos seems the most limited, but would the registrant be limited to any number of typos submitted, or any amount of transformation? (E.g., could a registrant of Pfeffernusse submit Fefernus? Would whether this is a plausible typo, versus the owner of "cloud" submitting "climb," be evaluated by anyone?). Greg mentions a "formula or process" for generating typo matches--does any such automated program already exist? How much would it cost to create one? Data about the TMCH +50 may also be relevant here in terms of the magnitude of the problem to be addressed, or the model of the TMCH +50 where the registrant identifies a previously abused string. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us.
I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH.
This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace.
Greg
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
That's because it came from words that weren't mine.
If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those
individuals
who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg
--
Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
-- *Greg Shatan *C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
Do you know of any way to correlate UDRP, URS, or ACPA cases with TMCH registrations? Unless an entity uses the TMCH, the fact that it later used one of those mechanisms doesn't seem particularly probative of a problem that can be solved by changing match rules. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
To expressly state what I've implied, UDRP decisions are another source of information, and a better one in my view. We have years of UDRP decisions before the New gTLD Program, and numerous decisions involving New gTLDs. UDRP filings and decisions are meatier as well, so we'll have access to contemporaneous analysis. ACPA cases should be useful as well.
Greg
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:21 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
Your kindness is greatly appreciated. Now that we're actually talking about the topic: Do we have any evidence on the extent of the problem the proposal addresses? I've suggested URS decisions as a potential source of information; are there others?
Greg's suggestions for limits on matches are quite interesting, and would at least partially address the ELLE/Cottonelle/Seller problem--a much bigger problem for the common words like those in the top ten from the audit than for EXXON. Especially given how Deloitte has interpreted some of the current requirements, I'd want to be very certain where the relevant keyword lists would come from. The registration information seems the least vulnerable to gaming, especially if the TMCH remains secret, though we might then consider the effects on the need for proof of use. Anything that requires someone to develop a separate list (and verify it? or would Deloitte be allowed to take the submitter's word?) might increase the expense of the TMCH, which seems like a concern.
I have more concerns about dealing with typos, because that can wander quickly into very broad territory. The suggestion that the registrant provide typos seems the most limited, but would the registrant be limited to any number of typos submitted, or any amount of transformation? (E.g., could a registrant of Pfeffernusse submit Fefernus? Would whether this is a plausible typo, versus the owner of "cloud" submitting "climb," be evaluated by anyone?). Greg mentions a "formula or process" for generating typo matches--does any such automated program already exist? How much would it cost to create one? Data about the TMCH +50 may also be relevant here in terms of the magnitude of the problem to be addressed, or the model of the TMCH +50 where the registrant identifies a previously abused string. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us.
I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH.
This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace.
Greg
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
That's because it came from words that weren't mine.
If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg
--
Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
--
Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com
+1 Greg. The TMCH should keep pace not only for brand owners but for those who attempt to register brand + related key words who will shortly thereafter lose their investment in a UDRP, URD, or ACPA lawsuit. While I do understand a desire to fine tune the Claims Notice (even the best writing by the best writers needs an update from time to time ☺ ), I don’t understand the desire to hide the trademark ball from would-be registrants who can avoid trouble if they get one. Best, Paul From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:45 PM To: Paul Keating <paul@law.es>; Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Recommendation for Question#10 (Appropriate Strings for Notification) Clearly, we have people who are interested in defending the proposal. Paul McGrady has done so on this thread. I'm certain the proposer is "interested," as well. We've also had some responses that are interested in variations on the proposal, but still going beyond exact match. We've had almost nobody "interested" in disagreeing with the proposal. The upcoming meetings of the WG will be used to open up the discussion of the various proposals, including this one. I believe that was the game plan all along. So at best, it's both incorrect and premature to attempt to call consensus in one direction or the other. At worst, it seems like an attempt to drown the proposal in the bathtub while nobody's watching. The general approach in ICANN WGs is to give any proposal a full and fair hearing and opportunity for discussion, across at least a couple of meetings. Summary execution is not consistent with that approach. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were "shaking the tree" rather than intended to cut off discussion before it even started. It seem that has been the effect. If that was your intent, thank you for focusing us. I would support an expansion beyond exact match for matching rules. I would suggest modifying the proposal to have more defined methods of matching. For example, typos of the mark and mark+keywords. Keywords could be derived from the trademark registration description or from either registrant-defined or pre-defined lists of keywords, based on the goods and services. Typos could simply be determined in a fashion, either by the registrant or by some formula or process. Domain hacks should also be considered (e.g., the trademark SALAD NINJA would be a match with salad.ninja, as well as saladninja.ninja. This would not require that variations be registered in the TMCH. This is consistent with the type of harms seen in the marketplace. While early UDRPs largely dealt with "exact match", the trend for quite some time has been toward typosquats and mark+keyword violations. The first wave of UDRPs has seen more exact matches, but we can expect history to repeat itself. The TMCH should keep pace. Greg On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu>> wrote: That's because it came from words that weren't mine. If no one at all is interested in defending the "expanding the match" proposal that this thread is supposed to cover, does that mean that we have a consensus that it's not worth pursuing? I'm not sure what the procedure for determining that would be. Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Paul Keating <paul@law.es<mailto:paul@law.es>> wrote:
I'm sorry but these 2 statements seem to be in conflict with each other.....
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register.
As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
I am more concerned about the latter but must say I really don't understand what is meant by the former.
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Apr 2017, at 16:22, Scott Austin <SAustin@vlplawgroup.com<mailto:SAustin@vlplawgroup.com>> wrote:
I don't in fact think that the TMCH contains names of those individuals who've been wrongly deterred from registering domain names they had a right to register. As has been discussed for a while, I think it contains other relevant evidence, like more words like "cloud" and "hotel" that prima facie don't seem likely to justify preemptive rights across new gTLDs.
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg -- Greg Shatan C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428 gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under applicable tax laws and regulations.
participants (13)
-
Greg Shatan -
icannlists -
J. Scott Evans -
John McElwaine -
jonathan matkowsky -
Mary Wong -
Michael Graham (ELCA) -
Nahitchevansky, Georges -
Paul Keating -
Phil Corwin -
Rebecca Tushnet -
Scott Austin -
Winterfeldt, Brian J.