Dear All, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email. The MP3, Adobe Connect recording and Adobe Connect chat below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group call held Wednesday, 11 October 2017at 17:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/7IpEB MP3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-11oct17-en.mp3 Adobe Connect recording: <https://participate.icann.org/p4yarjh9sq0/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=e7a3e0ad59e75812 eb19f72c46929374e3ff7948a26ef4dfdf6de2363e5902f4> https://participate.icann.org/p4yarjh9sq0/ The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/ Main wiki page for the working group: <https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw> https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Adobe Connect chat transcript for 11 October 2017: Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group on Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 17:00 UTC for 90 minute duration. Terri Agnew:agneda wiki page: <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ 7IpEB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCI gmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU &s=RtXnZB1mnV_CG37AgoFMSzu4maUqP_W22OP-mMRhGDM&e> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_7 IpEB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIg mkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU& s=RtXnZB1mnV_CG37AgoFMSzu4maUqP_W22OP-mMRhGDM&e= George Kirikos:Hi folks. Cyntia King:Hello, George! Poncelet Ileleji:Hello All George Kirikos:Hi Cyntia and Poncelet. Poncelet Ileleji:Hello George J. Scott Evans:Good morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening all. Marie Pattullo:Bon soir! Cyntia King:Hey, J Scott! Philip Corwin:Welcome RPMers! Michael R Graham:Morning Ariel Liang:Hello everyone! Julie Hedlund:Hello everyone and glad to help! Scott Austin:Good afternoon. Cyntia King:Welcome Ariel & Julie! Hello Mary & Teri! Lori Schulman:Hi guys Lori Schulman:Can't wait to hear what I will voluntell for this week. :) George Kirikos:Doc is at: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20171010/fc173bd9/Sta ffcompilationreport-Sunrisedata-3Oct2017-0001.pdf> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20171010/fc173bd9/Staf fcompilationreport-Sunrisedata-3Oct2017-0001.pdf if folks want to load it in a separate window. Kurt Pritz:Thank you George Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All Terri Agnew:all can scroll themselves Mary Wong:Yes David McAuley:yes J. Scott Evans:yes Maxim Alzoba (FAITID ):notebook keeps reloading , trying a smartphone Mary Wong:As Berry is saying, we are using the word "generic" in the IANA sense, not as the word may be viewed in trademark law parlance. George Kirikos:(would be nice to add page numbers to a future PDF, in one of the corners) Mary Wong:Thanks, George, we will note this Mary Wong:We have added links to the definitiional documents for what is a Start Date and End Date Sunrise. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID ):one of the versions - auctions and the other - first comes first served Maxim Alzoba (FAITID ):m name collisions was another story Mary Wong:We don't have the information available to know why some gTLDs don't have launch date information (as Berry said); note that Chart 1 listed them by date of delegation into the root zone. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):start date sunrsies = first comes first served, end date has auction as a method of resolution for situation, where two or more registrants wanted the same name George Kirikos:Some might have been cancelled, e.g. .doosan (which ICANN is using in its EBERO test). Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Spec13 sunrise info has no meaning, so I support Susan to excude this info Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):Agree J. Scott Evans:I agree with Susan. Susan Payne:thanks Berry Griffin Barnett:Spec 13 TLDs don;t need to run any Sunrise, so I agree - no reason to include Kathy Kleiman:@Barry, is the end date sunrise largely one registry owner? George Kirikos:.chloe was just cancelled recently, too, among others. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Kathy, end date for those who needed auctions instead of fast customers George Kirikos:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__domainincite.com _21767-2Drichemont-2Dkills-2Doff-2Dtwo-2Dmore-2Ddot-2Dbrands&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1 u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn -H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=Uz8hAX0J_OLPOErEdo gp0uA45cep3W_28CtTwjkqVa4&e= (.chloe and .montblanc terminations) Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):From a registry perspective, the reason to use an end date is to provide an allocation mechanism when more than one rights holder attempts to register the domain. Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):Rather than a race to register Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):end date sunrise and two TM owners in TMCH ... highest bidder wins , and in start-dte -fstest one George Kirikos:One would want to cross-reference this with the numbers from THe Analysis Group, e.g. perhaps one type leads to more sunrise registrations than the other, all else being equal. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in both 60 days is the requirement for the period (30+30 or 60) Susan Payne:@George, the AG data is fairly old because of the time at which they did their work. so I think it would be difficult to do the cross-ref you suggest wouldn't it? Jon Nevett:all George Kirikos:@Susan: right, one would need to update it using the ICANN monthly reports. George Kirikos:(i.e. the monthly registry reports) Kathy Kleiman:Tx Barry Mary Wong:Registry operators had the discretion to decide which type of Sunrise to do. The End Date Sunrise is a mechanism that is more familiar to many, so while we do not have the data as to why registry operators chose one over the other, that may be another reason. Susan Payne:@Kathy, Donuts don't have 385 registries so plenty of other registries would also have done end date Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):only registries might answer questions about why start-date vs. end-date. other parties do not have info Kathy Kleiman:@Jon Nevett - rather than talking around you, can we ask how many Sunrises had End Date Sunrises? Kathy Kleiman:All interesting! George Kirikos:Do we know how many TMCH strings have multiple owners? (ie, that's where it would make a difference, if there were multiple potential sunrise registrants) Mary Wong:@Maxim, yes, exactly. We don't have the information to do more than suggest a number of reasons at the moment. Jon Nevett:we launched 195 I think George Kirikos:If each TMCH string had only 1 registrant, it wouldn't make a difference. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):It was business decision of a registry - not anything esle Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George it would lead to TMCH auctions:) George Kirikos:@Maxim: right, presumably fanciful marks like "Google", "Exxon" or "Verizon" wouldn't face that issue, though. Kathy Kleiman:@Jon: tx1 George Kirikos:@Jon: with the Rightside acquisition, "we" is a little bit larger now. :-) George Kirikos:238 for Donots (with Rightside) according to: <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry _group&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iW U&s=g-BMcy2s8f1aLvbhe5353hfIAYzDfr1r0bj7lkFQMv4&e> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry_ group&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCI gmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU &s=g-BMcy2s8f1aLvbhe5353hfIAYzDfr1r0bj7lkFQMv4&e= Jon Nevett:@ george donuts didn't launch the RS names George Kirikos:@Jon: right, but now Donuts is inclusive of Rightside, part of the same group. George Kirikos:i.e. the "new Donuts" = "the old Donuts" + "Rightside" Jon Nevett:I'm aware George, but the question was how many sunrises we did Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Delay = Digital archery + TMCH+Name collisons+Glitches ... Kurt Pritz:Thanks Berry - When redesigning: Chart 5 might be better as a scatter diagram - or identifying mean and median Berry Cobb:@Kurt - yes, good idea George Kirikos:I don't really think Amazon/Google's delays can be explained away that way, e.g. <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry _Charleston-2DRoad-2DRegistry-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS 6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneS n5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=8KuED27OqWpznzS8NThhdTgPTfx5hBuHfozzwKbXmYQ &e> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry_ Charleston-2DRoad-2DRegistry-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6 sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn 5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=8KuED27OqWpznzS8NThhdTgPTfx5hBuHfozzwKbXmYQ& e= (Google) George Kirikos:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_r egistry_group_Amazon-2DRegistry-2DServices-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwl l3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m= EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=LLU9Xk0QU-wMV5FiUzaQLpFGvkNPp5 d-F2-i6OPrsaQ&e= (Amazon's strings) Susan Payne:@George, what's your point? of relevance to a review of the RPMs Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if we decide to have question about this chart - add "was the delay intentional ?" Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*chart 5 Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):+1 to Maxim. The Working Group is behind its charter schedule. I think we have a duty not to delay at this point. George Kirikos:Once those 100+ TLDs actually launch, the numbers might change, perhaps markedly. Mary Wong:All, to the extent there is agreement to include a question about "time to sunrise launch (from delegation date)" to the registry operator survey, it will be really helpful to relate it to the specific Charter question(s) the group is going to be discussing. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):lots of .CORE GEO domains had almost year of waiting due to ALP not working ... it was delivered to WG during the previous F2F by Abril George Kirikos:@Susan: my point was that the data is still a work in progress. George Kirikos:And so that could change the numbers. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):.MADRID too Susan Payne:@George all data is a WIP where you have a moving marketplace Susan Payne:@Berry just to be clear my comment wasn't a criticism of your work, which is really useful. I just didn't want you to spend a great deal of time drilling deeper if it doesn't really advance the consideration of the RPM requirements Berry Cobb:@Susan - << wasn't taken that way. I enjoy all feedback Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):also some delays were due to 120 days of name collisions (minimal) George Kirikos:+1 Mary. It'll eventually have more columns to that spreadsheet. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):sorry, old hand George Kirikos:Number of registrars could be obtained from the ICANN monthly reports. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):number of registrars could be 0 to max number of registrars in IANA George Kirikos:How did they delegate nic.shabaka ? :-) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):there is no obligation to have a contract with the third party Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George - Registries have to delegate nic.TLD under RA Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):with 9998 or 9999 as IANA ID number in WHOIS Griffin Barnett:ie self-allocation George Kirikos:@Maxim: right, just wondering if they did that without a registrar to manage it through, or just put it directly into the root for themselves. Susan Payne:to go to Claudio's point - the RA has been amended to address this George Kirikos:Directly into the zone, rather. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George, Registry have right for this nic.TLD to put themself, and the same for up to 100 names Mary Wong:Thanks very much, Kurt, that is exactly it. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in Charter 6 - 60 day of end date is minimum according to RPMs, and for start date - 30 days of notice in advance + 30 days mininum duration of sunrsie Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+ not all days were allowed to have start/end moments Susan Payne:I think it would be better to filter out the spec 13 for this as they skew the numbers a little Griffin Barnett:agree Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):they usefull info would be for SPEC13 - was SPEC 13 executed before the sunrise or after Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):to understand how many decided to change their mind George Kirikos:Berry answered the question I was going to ask. :-) Griffin Barnett:are there any new gTLDs that executed Spec 13 after launching as an open tld> Susan Payne:but Maxim if the registry allocated names to third parties they wouldn't be eligible to adopt spec 13 George Kirikos:Actually, new question (new hand). Susan Payne:so cannot have run an open sunrise Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):spec 13 was approved on 26mar2014, and some TLDs launched earlier Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newgtlds.icann .org_en_announcements-2Dand-2Dmedia_announcement-2D14apr14-2Den&d=DwICaQ&c=F mY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0A Ign-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=nQzKlTiAPDXWiRV z6Dw-KJc_SyUmK8iTpzMvyx9XoMw&e= Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Susan, they could have 0 registrars sunrise David McAuley:Nice presentation Berry Griffin Barnett:@maxim, just bc spec 13 was approved after some new gTLDs launched doesn't mean there were any that launched as open and later executed Spec 13... Susan Payne:but then they didn't really run a sunrise Maxim Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):formally 0 registrars sunrise was elegible Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registries had to have sunrise, not RRA executed Griffin Barnett:might be interesting to see some data on new gTLDs that technically ran a sunrise but without any accredited registrars Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):also many registrars did not want to implement sunrise in their SRS Berry Cobb:I was just trying to fit it on as few pages for viewing. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and executed RRA only after end of sunrise Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):to avoid it Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):aand only after end of Claims (due to issues with integration) Berry Cobb:@George: Understood. It is that way in the raw spreadsheet. Kathy Kleiman:Tx you, Barry, for all of your work, and this discussion of these charts! George Kirikos:Thanks, Berry. Is the raw spreadsheet on the wiki? Berry Cobb:and as the WG wants to add more info from claims, etcs, other data sources we can add to that. George Kirikos:(and the raw wiki will continue to have more columns, as we get more data sources, presumably) George Kirikos:raw spreadsheet, rather Berry Cobb:@George: at this time, no it is not because it does contain information that the WG should not be revealed. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):that is why I refferenced to .zurich as not so good example Susan Payne:yes i think the graphs are helpful Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):charts and numbers were fine - simplified understanding Scott Austin:very helpful Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 Kurt Kurt Pritz:pretty much Poncelet Ileleji:The graphically data very helpful Terri Agnew:next meeting: Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group is scheduled for Wednesday, 18 October 2017 at 17:00 UTC for 90 minutes. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the week after this week and after ICANN is going to be lost due to transit Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*ICANN meeting Mary Wong:@Maxim, yes, as is customary. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):deputy co-chairs? claudio:what are our WG goals to accomplish during icann60? George Kirikos:Bye folks. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all Griffin Barnett:thanks all, bye J. Scott Evans:thanks berry. thanks all. Greg Shatan:Bye all. David McAuley:Good bye all, thanks Berry Ariel Liang:thank you all Susan Payne:thanks all. thanks Berry Scott Austin:thanks all