Re: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
I have to agree with Volker here. If registrars are not required to provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the Transfer Policy. Thanks, Greg From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM To: Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> Cc: DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com>; gnso-tpr@icann.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and falls outside our remit. -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com<mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Greg, Thanks for your email. I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service. While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to their registrants. Moreover, they usually do so free of charge. I try not to lump DNS service with other services. The other services, e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on any of those. In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the same as applications. Steve On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com<mailto:dibiase@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Steve, DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing registrar. Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., if the registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted? In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer? Thanks, Greg From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Crocker Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. Volker, I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services. Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services. DNS is usually provided for free. Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a user service. But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN *regulating* DNS service. I think that's too narrow of an interpretation. ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for users to receive reliable and safe service. DNS service falls into a bit of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration service. This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good. But it also means it comes into play during a transfer. The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition during transfers. In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of the DNS service during transfers. Thanks, Steve On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: Hi Steve, with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate. The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail services after all. If not done well, there will be outages. Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well? -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com<mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Volker, If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing the DNS service. Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service as part of changing registrars. If the registrant also wishes for the DNS service to continue to work during the transition, some careful coordination between the two DNS operations is required. Steve On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the responsibility of the registrant? Volker On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com<mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Emily, et al, I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x. I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant. Thanks, Steve On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Working Group members, Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$> As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions. Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: [GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Dear Working Group members, As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this Thursday, 24 June: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$> Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Dear Working Group members, As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$> If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members. Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs. Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org<mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org<mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr -- -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
Hi Greg, Provision of DNS service is outside of the RAA and policies. There are mentions of nameservers, but only to the extent that registrars must provide that data to registries, escrow it, and provide the info in RDDS. Also, it is specified that the process to obtain an AuthInfo Code be no more restrictive than changing nameservers- but these are basically the only references. DNSSEC must also be provided upon request, but there are no significant details regarding how to comply (and it’s my recollection that there have only been a handful of complaints since these obligations came into effect with the adoption of the 2013 RAA). I agree that DNS service is well outside of the scope of the Transfer Policy (as well as other ICANN contractual obligations). We already have a robust agenda based upon the issues report and other scoping documents that were the results of significant efforts by the ICANN org and community. At this point I think it is too late to expand the scope and consider issues (while important) are outside of our remit. I also note that these issues are only being raised now, and were not raised during the previous 2-3 year process of starting this PDP. Regards, Owen
On Jun 24, 2021, at 08:40, DiBiase, Gregory via GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr@icann.org> wrote:
I have to agree with Volker here. If registrars are not required to provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the Transfer Policy.
Thanks, Greg
From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM To: Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> Cc: DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com <mailto:dibiase@amazon.com>>; gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and falls outside our remit.
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Greg,
Thanks for your email. I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service. While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to their registrants. Moreover, they usually do so free of charge.
I try not to lump DNS service with other services. The other services, e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on any of those. In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the same as applications.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com <mailto:dibiase@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Steve,
DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing registrar. Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., if the registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted? In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer?
Thanks, Greg
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Crocker Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
Volker,
I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services. Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services. DNS is usually provided for free. Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a user service.
But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN *regulating* DNS service. I think that's too narrow of an interpretation. ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for users to receive reliable and safe service. DNS service falls into a bit of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration service. This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good. But it also means it comes into play during a transfer.
The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition during transfers. In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of the DNS service during transfers.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: Hi Steve,
with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate. The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail services after all. If not done well, there will be outages.
Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well?
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Volker,
If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing the DNS service. Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service as part of changing registrars. If the registrant also wishes for the DNS service to continue to work during the transition, some careful coordination between the two DNS operations is required.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the responsibility of the registrant? Volker
On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Emily, et al,
I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x.
I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Working Group members,
Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: [GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this Thursday, 24 June:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members.
Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org/>
_______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org <mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr> _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org <mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr> -- -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org <mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr>
I agree as well DNS is not part of the transfer policy It’s a seperate service and often provided by a reseller or a Webhosting company. Registrars still have to help registrants with updating nameserver and dnssec records at the registry. We have to help with that at any point of time during the registration period. Kind regards Kristian Ørmen
On 24 Jun 2021, at 17.55, Owen Smigelski via GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Provision of DNS service is outside of the RAA and policies. There are mentions of nameservers, but only to the extent that registrars must provide that data to registries, escrow it, and provide the info in RDDS. Also, it is specified that the process to obtain an AuthInfo Code be no more restrictive than changing nameservers- but these are basically the only references. DNSSEC must also be provided upon request, but there are no significant details regarding how to comply (and it’s my recollection that there have only been a handful of complaints since these obligations came into effect with the adoption of the 2013 RAA).
I agree that DNS service is well outside of the scope of the Transfer Policy (as well as other ICANN contractual obligations). We already have a robust agenda based upon the issues report and other scoping documents that were the results of significant efforts by the ICANN org and community. At this point I think it is too late to expand the scope and consider issues (while important) are outside of our remit. I also note that these issues are only being raised now, and were not raised during the previous 2-3 year process of starting this PDP.
Regards,
Owen
On Jun 24, 2021, at 08:40, DiBiase, Gregory via GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr@icann.org> wrote:
I have to agree with Volker here. If registrars are not required to provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the Transfer Policy.
Thanks, Greg
From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM To: Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> Cc: DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com>; gnso-tpr@icann.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and falls outside our remit.
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote: Greg,
Thanks for your email. I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service. While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to their registrants. Moreover, they usually do so free of charge.
I try not to lump DNS service with other services. The other services, e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on any of those. In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the same as applications.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com> wrote: Hi Steve,
DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing registrar. Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., if the registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted? In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer?
Thanks, Greg
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Steve Crocker Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: gnso-tpr@icann.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
Volker,
I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services. Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services. DNS is usually provided for free. Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a user service.
But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN *regulating* DNS service. I think that's too narrow of an interpretation. ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for users to receive reliable and safe service. DNS service falls into a bit of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration service. This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good. But it also means it comes into play during a transfer.
The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition during transfers. In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of the DNS service during transfers.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote: Hi Steve,
with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate. The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail services after all. If not done well, there will be outages.
Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well?
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote: Volker,
If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing the DNS service. Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service as part of changing registrars. If the registrant also wishes for the DNS service to continue to work during the transition, some careful coordination between the two DNS operations is required.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote: I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the responsibility of the registrant? Volker
On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote: Emily, et al,
I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x.
I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> wrote: Dear Working Group members,
Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]
As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> Date: Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org" <gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: [GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this Thursday, 24 June:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> Date: Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org" <gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]
If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members.
Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org
_______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr -- -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr
_______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr
I know the deadline was yesterday and I apologize for this final comment on this thread at this late time, but I do want to offer a suggestion for consideration to include, i.e., refocus Steve’s suggested addition to something different. We agreed that DNS transfer service is not part of the charter. However, we also agreed that DNSSEC service transfer is important, even though we wouldn’t solve it here. In coming to this conclusion, I believe we are making a point of clarification that it is worth asking for additional input from the community. It is important our work product make this clarification and we should give the community the opportunity to respond to this, particularly because we should also indicate as part of our work product that insofar as this work is important, there should be future work to consider how to address it. Specifically, we are saying that the secure and stable inter-registrar transfer of a domain name should be concerned with two things: the contents of contact objects and the name servers associated with a domain name. These are both critical elements with which the registration system supports the Internet. We are further declaring that this PDP will only address the transfer of the contents of contact objects. Issues associated with the transfer of name servers, particularly the effect on DNSSEC (which is a security service), will be identified and relegated to future work. We should ask specifically if the community has a comment regarding this definitional clarification. Jim On 24 Jun 2021, at 11:55, Owen Smigelski via GNSO-TPR wrote:
Hi Greg,
Provision of DNS service is outside of the RAA and policies. There are mentions of nameservers, but only to the extent that registrars must provide that data to registries, escrow it, and provide the info in RDDS. Also, it is specified that the process to obtain an AuthInfo Code be no more restrictive than changing nameservers- but these are basically the only references. DNSSEC must also be provided upon request, but there are no significant details regarding how to comply (and it’s my recollection that there have only been a handful of complaints since these obligations came into effect with the adoption of the 2013 RAA).
I agree that DNS service is well outside of the scope of the Transfer Policy (as well as other ICANN contractual obligations). We already have a robust agenda based upon the issues report and other scoping documents that were the results of significant efforts by the ICANN org and community. At this point I think it is too late to expand the scope and consider issues (while important) are outside of our remit. I also note that these issues are only being raised now, and were not raised during the previous 2-3 year process of starting this PDP.
Regards,
Owen
On Jun 24, 2021, at 08:40, DiBiase, Gregory via GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr@icann.org> wrote:
I have to agree with Volker here. If registrars are not required to provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the Transfer Policy.
Thanks, Greg
From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM To: Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> Cc: DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com <mailto:dibiase@amazon.com>>; gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and falls outside our remit.
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Greg,
Thanks for your email. I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service. While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to their registrants. Moreover, they usually do so free of charge.
I try not to lump DNS service with other services. The other services, e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on any of those. In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the same as applications.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com <mailto:dibiase@amazon.com>> wrote: Hi Steve,
DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing registrar. Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., if the registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted? In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer?
Thanks, Greg
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Crocker Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> Cc: gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
Volker,
I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services. Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services. DNS is usually provided for free. Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a user service.
But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN *regulating* DNS service. I think that's too narrow of an interpretation. ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for users to receive reliable and safe service. DNS service falls into a bit of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration service. This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good. But it also means it comes into play during a transfer.
The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition during transfers. In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of the DNS service during transfers.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: Hi Steve,
with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate. The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail services after all. If not done well, there will be outages.
Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well?
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Volker,
If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing the DNS service. Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service as part of changing registrars. If the registrant also wishes for the DNS service to continue to work during the transition, some careful coordination between the two DNS operations is required.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote: I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the responsibility of the registrant? Volker
On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com <mailto:steve@shinkuro.com>> wrote: Emily, et al,
I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x.
I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Working Group members,
Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: [GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this Thursday, 24 June:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org <mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org <mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members.
Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org/>
_______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org <mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr> _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org <mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr> -- -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
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I do not believe 'we' have agreed that DNS transfer is outside the scope of anything, though I have read the registrar representatives' opinion to that effect. It seems worth some further discussion because, from a user perspective in typical situations (even if they are not aware of this...), DNS transfer is an extremely critical component of domain name transfer. At a minimum, it seems worthy of community input as to future work, if indeed we do agree it is not in present scope. Of course, we also could agree to seek a charter amendment to change the scope, if indeed that is necessary. We should talk about this some more, and hear more from people outside the CPH about it. [image: Logo] Mike Rodenbaugh address: 548 Market Street, Box 55819 San Francisco, CA 94104 email: mike@rodenbaugh.com phone: +1 (415) 738-8087 On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 5:35 AM James Galvin <jgalvin@donuts.email> wrote:
I know the deadline was yesterday and I apologize for this final comment on this thread at this late time, but I do want to offer a suggestion for consideration to include, i.e., refocus Steve’s suggested addition to something different.
We agreed that DNS transfer service is not part of the charter. However, we also agreed that DNSSEC service transfer is important, even though we wouldn’t solve it here.
In coming to this conclusion, I believe we are making a point of clarification that it is worth asking for additional input from the community. It is important our work product make this clarification and we should give the community the opportunity to respond to this, particularly because we should also indicate as part of our work product that insofar as this work is important, there should be future work to consider how to address it.
Specifically, we are saying that the secure and stable inter-registrar transfer of a domain name should be concerned with two things: the contents of contact objects and the name servers associated with a domain name. These are both critical elements with which the registration system supports the Internet. We are further declaring that this PDP will only address the transfer of the contents of contact objects. Issues associated with the transfer of name servers, particularly the effect on DNSSEC (which is a security service), will be identified and relegated to future work.
We should ask specifically if the community has a comment regarding this definitional clarification.
Jim
On 24 Jun 2021, at 11:55, Owen Smigelski via GNSO-TPR wrote:
Hi Greg,
Provision of DNS service is outside of the RAA and policies. There are mentions of nameservers, but only to the extent that registrars must provide that data to registries, escrow it, and provide the info in RDDS. Also, it is specified that the process to obtain an AuthInfo Code be no more restrictive than changing nameservers- but these are basically the only references. DNSSEC must also be provided upon request, but there are no significant details regarding how to comply (and it’s my recollection that there have only been a handful of complaints since these obligations came into effect with the adoption of the 2013 RAA).
I agree that DNS service is well outside of the scope of the Transfer Policy (as well as other ICANN contractual obligations). We already have a robust agenda based upon the issues report and other scoping documents that were the results of significant efforts by the ICANN org and community. At this point I think it is too late to expand the scope and consider issues (while important) are outside of our remit. I also note that these issues are only being raised now, and were not raised during the previous 2-3 year process of starting this PDP.
Regards,
Owen
On Jun 24, 2021, at 08:40, DiBiase, Gregory via GNSO-TPR < gnso-tpr@icann.org> wrote:
I have to agree with Volker here. If registrars are not required to provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the Transfer Policy.
Thanks, Greg
*From:* Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM *To:* Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> *Cc:* DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com>; gnso-tpr@icann.org *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
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I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and falls outside our remit.
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
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On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote:
Greg,
Thanks for your email. I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service. While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to their registrants. Moreover, they usually do so free of charge.
I try not to lump DNS service with other services. The other services, e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on any of those. In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the same as applications.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase@amazon.com> wrote:
Hi Steve,
DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing registrar. Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., *if* the registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted? In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer?
Thanks, Greg
*From:* GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Steve Crocker *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM *To:* Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> *Cc:* gnso-tpr@icann.org *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
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Volker,
I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services. Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services. DNS is usually provided for free. Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a user service.
But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN *regulating* DNS service. I think that's too narrow of an interpretation. ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for users to receive reliable and safe service. DNS service falls into a bit of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration service. This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good. But it also means it comes into play during a transfer.
The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition during transfers. In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of the DNS service during transfers.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Hi Steve,
with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate. The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail services after all. If not done well, there will be outages.
Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well?
-- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote:
Volker,
If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing the DNS service. Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service as part of changing registrars. If the registrant also wishes for the DNS service to continue to work during the transition, some careful coordination between the two DNS operations is required.
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the responsibility of the registrant? Volker
On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote:
Emily, et al,
I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x.
I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> wrote:
Dear Working Group members,
*Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter *to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
*From: *GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Emily Barabas < emily.barabas@icann.org> *Date: *Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 *To: *"gnso-tpr@icann.org" <gnso-tpr@icann.org> *Subject: *[GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, *please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this* *Thursday, 24 June*:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
*From: *Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> *Date: *Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 *To: *"gnso-tpr@icann.org" <gnso-tpr@icann.org> *Subject: *Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
Dear Working Group members,
As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members.
*Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021*. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs.
Kind regards,
Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org
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-- -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
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participants (5)
-
DiBiase, Gregory -
James Galvin -
Kristian Ørmen -
Mike Rodenbaugh -
Owen Smigelski