RDAP referral to registrar ?
Hello, Francisco already replied to me here - the question was: // Is there going to be a guarantee that one will be able to perform a domain RDAP lookup up to the registrar RDAP service ? Section 2.3 of the RDAP operational profile does not seem to enforce a link to the registrar RDAP server for other cases than thin registries. //
From an automation and information publishing perspective, we think always having a link to registrar from the registries might be very convenient. Is there a way to publish this whenever it's available ?
(the use case we're working on was https://github.com/Gandi/dnsknife/bl ob/master/docs/extending_registrar_functions.txt) Or is this a small enough constraint that can be relaxed later and doesn't need inclusion in the operational guidelines right now ? Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding the implementation goals- if so sorry about that. Thank you!
From an automation and information publishing perspective, we think always having a link to registrar from the registries might be very convenient. Is there a way to publish this whenever it's available ?
If the registrar has the information, the registry can return an http redirect to the registrar and it'll all look automatic to the client. In much the same way, if you do an RDAP query to one of the RIRs, and the address has been reassigned to another RIR, they do the redirect and for the client it just works. R's, John
Unfortunately, HTTP redirections are not an option in the case of the gTLD space, because Registries are contractually required to provide an RDDS response.
From an operational perspective, I think that HTTP redirections are also not an option in the case of the domain industry, because the prevalent business model has two parties (i.e. Registries and Registrars) keeping certain portions of the data elements. For example, the Registry is the authoritative source of information for the domain statuses.
The mechanism defined in section 2.3 of the gTLD RDAP profile allows the Registry to provide an RDAP response, and say something like "btw, this other party may have more information". Regards, Gustavo On 8/29/16, 19:17, "gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org on behalf of John Levine" <gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org on behalf of johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
From an automation and information publishing perspective, we think always having a link to registrar from the registries might be very convenient. Is there a way to publish this whenever it's available ?
If the registrar has the information, the registry can return an http redirect to the registrar and it'll all look automatic to the client.
In much the same way, if you do an RDAP query to one of the RIRs, and the address has been reassigned to another RIR, they do the redirect and for the client it just works.
R's, John
-----Original Message----- From: gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Gustavo Lozano Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 6:34 PM To: John Levine; gtld-tech@icann.org Subject: Re: [gtld-tech] RDAP referral to registrar ?
Unfortunately, HTTP redirections are not an option in the case of the gTLD space, because Registries are contractually required to provide an RDDS response.
From an operational perspective, I think that HTTP redirections are also not an option in the case of the domain industry, because the prevalent business model has two parties (i.e. Registries and Registrars) keeping certain portions of the data elements. For example, the Registry is the authoritative source of information for the domain statuses.
Gustavo, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly it would seem to be a description of a use case in which redirection would actually be a *good* operational practice. If a registry has some data elements and a registrar has other data elements I believe it's possible to retrieve both sets of elements if (for example) a registry receives a query and responds with an HTTP 300 (Multiple Choices) status code: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-6.4.1 The RDAP response data from the registry can be carried in the body of the redirecting response. The client follows the redirect (or URI reference(s) found in the payload) to the registrar, sends the registrar a query, gets a response, and both sets of data elements are retrieved. Scott
Sorry if I’m coming late to the party . … This conversation makes it sound like registrars are expected to run RDAP services .. but since they’d only be used for “thin” registries they’d only be used for a very limited time .. Am I missing something? Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social Random Stuff: http://michele.irish ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 On 31/08/2016, 12:30, "Hollenbeck, Scott" <gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org on behalf of shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org] > On Behalf Of Gustavo Lozano > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 6:34 PM > To: John Levine; gtld-tech@icann.org > Subject: Re: [gtld-tech] RDAP referral to registrar ? > > Unfortunately, HTTP redirections are not an option in the case of the > gTLD > space, because Registries are contractually required to provide an RDDS > response. > > From an operational perspective, I think that HTTP redirections are > also > not an option in the case of the domain industry, because the prevalent > business model has two parties (i.e. Registries and Registrars) keeping > certain portions of the data elements. For example, the Registry is the > authoritative source of information for the domain statuses. Gustavo, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly it would seem to be a description of a use case in which redirection would actually be a *good* operational practice. If a registry has some data elements and a registrar has other data elements I believe it's possible to retrieve both sets of elements if (for example) a registry receives a query and responds with an HTTP 300 (Multiple Choices) status code: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-6.4.1 The RDAP response data from the registry can be carried in the body of the redirecting response. The client follows the redirect (or URI reference(s) found in the payload) to the registrar, sends the registrar a query, gets a response, and both sets of data elements are retrieved. Scott
Michele, A nit in your comment, the requirement applies to ³thin² registrations. BTW, a Registrar may optionally provide an RDAP service. Regards, Gustavo On 8/31/16, 04:34, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Sorry if I¹m coming late to the party .
This conversation makes it sound like registrars are expected to run RDAP services .. but since they¹d only be used for ³thin² registries they¹d only be used for a very limited time ..
Am I missing something?
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social Random Stuff: http://michele.irish ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
On 31/08/2016, 12:30, "Hollenbeck, Scott" <gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org on behalf of shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gtld-tech-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Gustavo Lozano Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 6:34 PM To: John Levine; gtld-tech@icann.org Subject: Re: [gtld-tech] RDAP referral to registrar ?
Unfortunately, HTTP redirections are not an option in the case of the gTLD space, because Registries are contractually required to provide an RDDS response.
From an operational perspective, I think that HTTP redirections are also not an option in the case of the domain industry, because the prevalent business model has two parties (i.e. Registries and Registrars) keeping certain portions of the data elements. For example, the Registry is the authoritative source of information for the domain statuses.
Gustavo, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly it would seem to be a description of a use case in which redirection would actually be a *good* operational practice. If a registry has some data elements and a registrar has other data elements I believe it's possible to retrieve both sets of elements if (for example) a registry receives a query and responds with an HTTP 300 (Multiple Choices) status code:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-6.4.1
The RDAP response data from the registry can be carried in the body of the redirecting response. The client follows the redirect (or URI reference(s) found in the payload) to the registrar, sends the registrar a query, gets a response, and both sets of data elements are retrieved.
Scott
A nit in your comment, the requirement applies to �thin� registrations.
BTW, a Registrar may optionally provide an RDAP service.
In an ICANN contracted registry, sure. We hope that ccTLDs will move to RDAP too, and there's all sorts of situations where referrals are just what you want. For example, most .uk domains are handled by Nominet, while ac.uk is Janet. Here in the US, there are still quite a few legacy geographic registries, such as watkins-glen.ny.us which I run. If Neustar were to get their act together to run RDAP and refer geographic names, I'd be thrilled to run an RDAP server for them. R's, John
The RDAP response data from the registry can be carried in the body of the redirecting response. The client follows the redirect (or URI reference(s) found in the payload) to the registrar, sends the registrar a query, gets a response, and both sets of data elements are retrieved.
It's an interesting idea but it'd be hard to implement. All the http client libraries I know throw away the body of a 3xx response and only give you the body of the ultimate result. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
-----Original Message----- From: John R Levine [mailto:johnl@taugh.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:41 AM To: Hollenbeck, Scott Cc: gtld-tech@icann.org Subject: RE: [gtld-tech] RDAP referral to registrar ?
The RDAP response data from the registry can be carried in the body of the redirecting response. The client follows the redirect (or URI reference(s) found in the payload) to the registrar, sends the registrar a query, gets a response, and both sets of data elements are retrieved.
It's an interesting idea but it'd be hard to implement. All the http client libraries I know throw away the body of a 3xx response and only give you the body of the ultimate result.
The nice thing about the 300 response code is that it's supposed to prompt reactive negotiation with the user agent, which could include presentation of the alternatives provided in the body. I agree, though, that this behavior probably isn't the default or even an available option with your typical client library. Scott
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 02:17:35AM +0000, John Levine wrote:
In much the same way, if you do an RDAP query to one of the RIRs, and the address has been reassigned to another RIR, they do the redirect and for the client it just works.
Not really. Your example describes a convenience mechanism amongst peers. I.e., it goes "sideways". -Peter
participants (7)
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Gustavo Lozano -
Hollenbeck, Scott -
John Levine -
John R Levine
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Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Pascal Bouchareine -
Peter Koch