On 1.01.70 1:00 , wrote:

Dear ALICE,

Thank you very much for the file.

pls note that I have explicitly asked the nationality and affiliation of each member.

The requested information could be added simply below the picture.

Regards

k.arasteh

Kavouss, colleagues, I object to listing my nationality and affiliation in this way. I am not here to represent my country nor do I represent my employer. I do not wish our site to give that impression. My nationality and affiliation are a matter of record in the IGC proceedings. My affiliation is prominently mentioned in by biography. I consider that sufficient. Regards Daniel

I suggest that this list of members should indicate the source of the nomination for each member, e.g. GAC, NRO, ISOC, etc etc. This makes it immediately clear how each member comes to be on the ICG, as per the original constitution of the group. In addition, let’s have a tabular or detailed list which provides whatever additional information is relevant, for easy reference. We do need to comply with the principle of transparency, and I cannot argue against publication of any information which has been reasonably requested. Paul. On 5 Aug 2014, at 9:21 pm, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> wrote:

On 1.01.70 1:00 , wrote:

...

Dear ALICE,

Thank you very much for the file.

pls note that I have explicitly asked the nationality and affiliation of each member.

The requested information could be added simply below the picture.

Regards

k.arasteh

Kavouss, colleagues,

I object to listing my nationality and affiliation in this way. I am not here to represent my country nor do I represent my employer. I do not wish our site to give that impression.

My nationality and affiliation are a matter of record in the IGC proceedings. My affiliation is prominently mentioned in by biography. I consider that sufficient.

Regards

Daniel

_______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

Thanks Alissa. And Samantha. It certainly needs editing because some information is missing; also because some was provided quite informally as part of individual personal introductions to the ICG. It may be better to stick to information which can be well structured, and to remove the prose, in particular the "HOW PERSON WILL REPRESENT THEIR COMMUNITY IN THE ICG” column. That information is available after all in the meeting proceedings, and will be more meaningful in that context. Paul. ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100 See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38 On 6 Aug 2014, at 4:37 am, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote:

On 8/5/14, 11:30 AM, "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:

...

I suggest that this list of members should indicate the source of the nomination for each member, e.g. GAC, NRO, ISOC, etc etc. This makes it immediately clear how each member comes to be on the ICG, as per the original constitution of the group.

In addition, let’s have a tabular or detailed list which provides whatever additional information is relevant, for easy reference.

That already exists, courtesy of Samantha: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fvjyxdezp1tod1/IANA%20steward%20correspondence%2 0group%20matrix%20-%20v2.docx

This is one of the documents we should all be reviewing for accuracy as part of the meeting minutes review.

Alissa

...

We do need to comply with the principle of transparency, and I cannot argue against publication of any information which has been reasonably requested.

Paul.

On 5 Aug 2014, at 9:21 pm, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> wrote:

...

On 1.01.70 1:00 , wrote:

...

Dear ALICE,

Thank you very much for the file.

pls note that I have explicitly asked the nationality and affiliation of each member.

The requested information could be added simply below the picture.

Regards

k.arasteh

Kavouss, colleagues,

I object to listing my nationality and affiliation in this way. I am not here to represent my country nor do I represent my employer. I do not wish our site to give that impression.

My nationality and affiliation are a matter of record in the IGC proceedings. My affiliation is prominently mentioned in by biography. I consider that sufficient.

Regards

Daniel

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_______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

I have checked/edited my own entry in the shared file IANA steward correspondence group matrix - v2.docx And I have no objection to publishing this information in full. As for other ICG members, I suggest to check/validate, as the information does not appear to be complete. Paul. On 6 Aug 2014, at 5:50 am, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> wrote:

On 5.08.14 21:16 , Paul Wilson wrote:

...

Thanks Alissa. And Samantha.

It certainly needs editing because some information is missing; also because some was provided quite informally as part of individual personal introductions to the ICG.

It may be better to stick to information which can be well structured, and to remove the prose, in particular the "HOW PERSON WILL REPRESENT THEIR COMMUNITY IN THE ICG” column. That information is available after all in the meeting proceedings, and will be more meaningful in that context.

Paul.

Paul,

personally I consider the 'prose' very worth having since it gives me the opportunity to say what value I attach to the other information such as nationality should that become necessary. I also personally consider having this information readily available in one place much much more important than the information about citizenship.

For full disclosure I attach the comments I sent to Samantha earlier. I expect that other people did so as well and Samantha has not yet had the opportunity to include their comments either.

Daniel

NB: This is no explicit or implied criticism of Samantha's work.

-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Minutes for Day 2 of 1st ICG Meeting Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:52:37 +0200 From: Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> To: Samantha Dickinson <samantha@linguasynaptica.com>

For the matrix:

how selected: replace with "By RSSAC: http://london50.icann.org/en/schedule/minutes-rssac-24jun14-en.pdf"

how represent: add "see also: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/2014-July/000061.html"

financial disclosure: "Time and travel supported by the RIPE NCC. I do not represent the RIPE NCC here."

On 6.08.14 13:30 , Patrik Fältström wrote:

On 6 Aug 2014, at 12:38, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:

...

As for other ICG members, I suggest to check/validate, as the information does not appear to be complete.

FWIW, with "track changes" turned on, I simply edited my entry in the document in Dropbox and added information about myself.

Patrik

I am not sure about shared document editing in dropbox. I have therefore created a new file with just the row describing myself: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y4k3jiwarwmcnrh/iana%20steward%20correspondence%20... Daniel

Dear Colleagues, to some who have argued that information about citizenship is irrelevant or unimportant, I would like to respond that it is certainly relevant and important for the sake of transparency and accountability. At our first meeting in London, when the interim Chair asked each member to introduce her/himself, I requested that citizenship be declared, and that this be noted. THERE WAS NO OBJECTION, and every member in turn gracefully provided the information. In line with the effort at transparency in which we all engaged in London, I request that citizenship be published along other data in the profiles of the ICG members. Failing to do so would only encourage the sense, however unjustified, that some members are not willing to be as transparent as necessary, or that they fear that this data would somehow make apparent some imbalance in the composition of our group. As we are entrusted with the task of presenting a transition plan to the NTIA on behalf of the global multistakeholder community, surely one of our basic duties is transparency about ourselves. Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net> À: "Daniel Karrenberg" <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> Cc: internal-cg@icann.org Envoyé: Mercredi 6 Août 2014 12:38:56 Objet: Re: [Internal-cg] (no subject) I have checked/edited my own entry in the shared file IANA steward correspondence group matrix - v2.docx And I have no objection to publishing this information in full. As for other ICG members, I suggest to check/validate, as the information does not appear to be complete. Paul. On 6 Aug 2014, at 5:50 am, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> wrote:

On 5.08.14 21:16 , Paul Wilson wrote:

...

Thanks Alissa. And Samantha.

It certainly needs editing because some information is missing; also because some was provided quite informally as part of individual personal introductions to the ICG.

It may be better to stick to information which can be well structured, and to remove the prose, in particular the "HOW PERSON WILL REPRESENT THEIR COMMUNITY IN THE ICG” column. That information is available after all in the meeting proceedings, and will be more meaningful in that context.

Paul.

Paul,

personally I consider the 'prose' very worth having since it gives me the opportunity to say what value I attach to the other information such as nationality should that become necessary. I also personally consider having this information readily available in one place much much more important than the information about citizenship.

For full disclosure I attach the comments I sent to Samantha earlier. I expect that other people did so as well and Samantha has not yet had the opportunity to include their comments either.

Daniel

NB: This is no explicit or implied criticism of Samantha's work.

-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Minutes for Day 2 of 1st ICG Meeting Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:52:37 +0200 From: Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> To: Samantha Dickinson <samantha@linguasynaptica.com>

For the matrix:

how selected: replace with "By RSSAC: http://london50.icann.org/en/schedule/minutes-rssac-24jun14-en.pdf"

how represent: add "see also: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/2014-July/000061.html"

financial disclosure: "Time and travel supported by the RIPE NCC. I do not represent the RIPE NCC here."

_______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

Dear Joe and colleagues, - I agree with Joe: citizenship is A data element, not THE data element. - But for the sake of transparency and accountability, it is an important element. "Organizational processes" cannot preclude, nor replace, transparency at another, more public level. Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "joseph alhadeff" <joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com> À: internal-cg@icann.org Envoyé: Jeudi 7 Août 2014 09:11:06 Objet: Re: [Internal-cg] (no subject) Colleagues: The question for me was not whether citizenship was appropriate but it's location and extent to which we highlighted it. We are engaged on behalf of mostly global groups that went though organizational processes to determine representation. Nationality is a data element, not the data element. Joe On 8/7/2014 2:53 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques wrote: Dear Colleagues, to some who have argued that information about citizenship is irrelevant or unimportant, I would like to respond that it is certainly relevant and important for the sake of transparency and accountability. At our first meeting in London, when the interim Chair asked each member to introduce her/himself, I requested that citizenship be declared, and that this be noted. THERE WAS NO OBJECTION, and every member in turn gracefully provided the information. In line with the effort at transparency in which we all engaged in London, I request that citizenship be published along other data in the profiles of the ICG members. Failing to do so would only encourage the sense, however unjustified, that some members are not willing to be as transparent as necessary, or that they fear that this data would somehow make apparent some imbalance in the composition of our group. As we are entrusted with the task of presenting a transition plan to the NTIA on behalf of the global multistakeholder community, surely one of our basic duties is transparency about ourselves. Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Paul Wilson" <pwilson@apnic.net> À: "Daniel Karrenberg" <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> Cc: internal-cg@icann.org Envoyé: Mercredi 6 Août 2014 12:38:56 Objet: Re: [Internal-cg] (no subject) I have checked/edited my own entry in the shared file IANA steward correspondence group matrix - v2.docx And I have no objection to publishing this information in full. As for other ICG members, I suggest to check/validate, as the information does not appear to be complete. Paul. On 6 Aug 2014, at 5:50 am, Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> wrote: On 5.08.14 21:16 , Paul Wilson wrote: Thanks Alissa. And Samantha. It certainly needs editing because some information is missing; also because some was provided quite informally as part of individual personal introductions to the ICG. It may be better to stick to information which can be well structured, and to remove the prose, in particular the "HOW PERSON WILL REPRESENT THEIR COMMUNITY IN THE ICG” column. That information is available after all in the meeting proceedings, and will be more meaningful in that context. Paul. Paul, personally I consider the 'prose' very worth having since it gives me the opportunity to say what value I attach to the other information such as nationality should that become necessary. I also personally consider having this information readily available in one place much much more important than the information about citizenship. For full disclosure I attach the comments I sent to Samantha earlier. I expect that other people did so as well and Samantha has not yet had the opportunity to include their comments either. Daniel NB: This is no explicit or implied criticism of Samantha's work. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Minutes for Day 2 of 1st ICG Meeting Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:52:37 +0200 From: Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg@ripe.net> To: Samantha Dickinson <samantha@linguasynaptica.com> For the matrix: how selected: replace with "By RSSAC: http://london50.icann.org/en/schedule/minutes-rssac-24jun14-en.pdf " how represent: add "see also: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/2014-July/000061.html " financial disclosure: "Time and travel supported by the RIPE NCC. I do not represent the RIPE NCC here." _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

On 5.08.14 20:30 , Paul Wilson wrote:

I suggest that this list of members should indicate the source of the nomination for each member, e.g. GAC, NRO, ISOC, etc etc. This makes it immediately clear how each member comes to be on the ICG, as per the original constitution of the group.

In addition, let’s have a tabular or detailed list which provides whatever additional information is relevant, for easy reference. We do need to comply with the principle of transparency, and I cannot argue against publication of any information which has been reasonably requested.

Paul. On 5.08.14 20:30 , Paul Wilson wrote:> I suggest that this list of members should indicate the source of the nomination for each member, e.g. GAC, NRO, ISOC, etc etc. This makes it immediately clear how each member comes to be on the ICG, as per the original constitution of the group.

This is the status quo. I welcome it and I have not spoken against it. I object against my nationality and employer being listed on the ICG membership page, currently https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/icg-members-2014-07-29-en. Including this information there would project an image about my participation that I consider inappropriate. I neither represent my country of citizenship, nor my country of residency nor my employer on the ICG.

In addition, let’s have a tabular or detailed list which provides whatever additional information is relevant, for easy reference. We do need to comply with the principle of transparency, and I cannot argue against publication of any information which has been reasonably requested.

I am absolutely in favor of that. Full disclosure is good. If I recall correctly I was one of the first to provide a structured self-introduction on our mailing list. I have answered all questions about myself from other members of the ICG fully and without reservation so far. These answers, which include my country of citizenship (DE), my country of residence(NL) and my employer (RIPE NCC) are part of the public record of the ICG in the mailing list archive and in the transcript of our first meeting. Samantha has indeed compiled a table that summarises our introductions. I have commented on my data in that table to Samantha and I have no objections on that being published as part of the record of our first meeting as long as I have a say about what it says about myself. Should that table get a very prominent place on our web presence, I intend to review my entry again in order to make sure it gives an impression about myself which I consider appropriate in the context in which it appears. I consider my position in this matter reasonable, rational and fully in line with informational self determination. Should any ICG member wish to know even more about my motivation to take this position I will be happy explain more in a personal conversation. Daniel

Dear Sir, That indication which you referred to (GNSO) is not enough We need to know what the people are doing apart from their title in ICANN process. For instance, my affiliation IS NOTGAC since I am affiliated to the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology and Iranian National Centre for cyberspace We need also to know the nationality of each ICG member .This is essential since I received a message that 11 out of 27 have /are from one single county nationality.? Please be kind and observe code of conduct Regards KAVOUSS Arasteh . 2014-08-05 13:36 GMT+02:00 WUKnoben <wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de>:

Affiliation is shown – in my case “GNSO”. And this seems to me enough to show the “multistakeholder” aspect of the transition.

More details can be seen in the bios.

Best regards

Wolf-Ulrich

*From:* Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:10 PM *To:* Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> *Cc:* internal-cg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Internal-cg] Your biographies

Dear ALICE,

Thank you very much for the file.

pls note that I have explicitly asked the nationality and affiliation of each member.

The requested information could be added simply below the picture.

Regards

k.arasteh

2014-08-05 12:19 GMT+02:00 Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org>:

...

Dear ICG Members, For your information, your biographies are posted on the ICANN website at: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/icg-members-2014-07-29-en Link to interviews conducted to date are also referenced on this page. Should you have any comments or edits, please feel free to send them to Ergys and myself (off list). Thanks, Very best regards Alice

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------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg