Dear JGP and KGP we have finished most variant defination in MSS as attached, but there are still dozens of code points have NOT linked with their corresponding Variants (if any) yet. we will keep working on these code points from IIcore and Normalized table, also, the help from Japan linguists and Korean Linguist will be appreciated. Regards Wang Wei -----原始邮件----- 发件人: "王伟" <wangwei@cnic.cn> 发送时间: 2015年4月16日 星期四 收件人: "王伟" <wangwei@cnic.cn> 抄送: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com>, "hotta@jprs.co.jp" <hotta@jprs.co.jp>, "Dongman Lee" <dlee@cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43@hotmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh@gmail.com>, Yuri <takamatsu@jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp>, "Zhang Zhoucai" <joe.zhang@unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao@cnnic.cn>" <qichao@cnnic.cn>, "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP@icann.org" <KoreanGP@icann.org>, "ChineseGP@icann.org" <ChineseGP@icann.org>, "JapaneseGP@icann.org" <JapaneseGP@icann.org>, "? ??" <mjkim@kisa.or.kr>, "조성덕" <isanjo@empas.com>, "신상현" <partizan21@naver.com> 主题: Re: Re: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables? btw, we will send out CGP's variants for MSS by weekend. -----原始邮件----- 发件人: "王伟" <wangwei@cnic.cn> 发送时间: 2015年4月16日 星期四 收件人: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> 抄送: "hotta@jprs.co.jp" <hotta@jprs.co.jp>, "Dongman Lee" <dlee@cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43@hotmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh@gmail.com>, Yuri <takamatsu@jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp>, "Zhang Zhoucai" <joe.zhang@unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao@cnnic.cn>" <qichao@cnnic.cn>, "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP@icann.org" <KoreanGP@icann.org>, "ChineseGP@icann.org" <ChineseGP@icann.org>, "JapaneseGP@icann.org" <JapaneseGP@icann.org>, "? ??" <mjkim@kisa.or.kr>, "조성덕" <isanjo@empas.com>, "신상현" <partizan21@naver.com> 主题: Re: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables? Dear All After the discussion in today‘s CGP meeting, Prof. ZHANG and Mr. QI Chao has produced a Minimum Shared Set (MSS) for C, J and K. The MSS is consisted of the following code point subset: A: IICore Base (9810, all fall in MSR) B: Historically Registered Hanzi under .CN/TW/HK (7000/5292/4191, all fall in MSR) C: PRC National Normalized Hanzi along with their traditional variants (8105/3489, some out of MSR) MSS=A+B+C-D-E D: code points in C, but not in MSR E: Stroke or Radicals (31) LIDU?(5) Out of BMP(62) finally, we got 12531 valid code points aggregate a Minimum Shared Set, based on which C, J and K could define their own variants, or adopt others variants. After all three GPs finish the variants generation and coordinaiton on MSS, each GP still has the chance to add independent code points (with no variants) into MSS seperately, to from its own final repertoire. STEP1: MSS generated and accepted by three GPs, a mininum code points set shared by all of us. STEP2: variants generated and coordinated based on MSS STEP3: Add each GP's own independent and unrelated code points, form the final formal repertoire. Does this process work for you? please feel free to give your comments. Regards WANG Wei PS: special thanks for the hardwork of Mr. QI Chao -----原始邮件----- 发件人: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> 发送时间: 2015年4月16日 星期四 收件人: "hotta@jprs.co.jp" <hotta@jprs.co.jp> 抄送: "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnic.cn>, "Dongman Lee" <dlee@cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43@hotmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh@gmail.com>, Yuri <takamatsu@jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp>, "Zhang Zhoucai" <joe.zhang@unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao@cnnic.cn>" <qichao@cnnic.cn>, "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP@icann.org" <KoreanGP@icann.org>, "ChineseGP@icann.org" <ChineseGP@icann.org>, "JapaneseGP@icann.org" <JapaneseGP@icann.org>, "? ??" <mjkim@kisa.or.kr>, "조성덕" <isanjo@empas.com>, "신상현" <partizan21@naver.com>, "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> 主题: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables? Dear everybody: KLGP is trying to prepare a repertoire and a variant table. I would like to get the (or almost?) latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables. Thanks very much in advance. -- 김 경석 KIM, Kyongsok

Dear Hotta San, Dear All Yes, I think Yoneya' algorithm and terms work for us. I think if everything goes smoothly, Han full-repertoire will be unified set = Chinese LGR-1 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire Which means, Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants and basically accepts all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, and so do Korean LGR-1 In that case, MSS will never be used. MSS is defined as limited sub-set of CGP repertoire, which contains proposed variants and will be used to coordinate with J and K It means, some specific code points in MSS, CGP might delete them or change their status according to the coordination result. (especially in the case like "��" and "�C") In that case, Han full-repertoire = Chinese LGR-2 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire Anyway, as Hotta mentioned, MSS is only an intermediate tool that is introduced to speed up Yoneya's algorithm. Regards Wang Wei -----�ʼ�ԭ��----- ������: hotta@jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta@jprs.co.jp] ����ʱ��: 2015��4��22�� 13:23 �ռ���: ��? ����: KIM Kyongsok; Dongman Lee; Joe Zhang; Wang Wei; Kenny Huang; Yuri; Yoshiro YONEYA; Zhang Zhoucai; <qichao@cnnic.cn>; Zhiwei Yan; KoreanGP@icann.org; ChineseGP@icann.org; JapaneseGP@icann.org; ? ??; ???; ??? ����: Re: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables? Dear Wang Wei, I appreciate your effort in making the way easier and faster. I think I understand the purpose of the introduction of MSS, and you have my sympathy to some extent. Please see my observation and comments below. I need your and everybody's feedback. === Here, let me use the technical terms in Yoneya's algorithm we tentatively agreed in Dallas. <premises> (1) Japanese LGR-1 definition is almost finished by JGP - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire : intersection of JPRS repertoire and MSR - Japanese LGR-1 variants : no variants - dispositions in Japanese LGR-1 : all characters in Japanese LGR-1 are 'allocatable' - Japanese LGR-1 WLE : no rules in WLE (2) JGP has tentatively decided that Japanese LGR-2 would basically accept all the variants defined in Chinese LGR-1 and Korean LGR-1 (the appropriateness of this decision just needs to be confirmed after CGP and KGP define the variants) (3) Han full-repertoire = Chinese LGR-1 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire <then let me conclude that> (A) Definition of MSS is not necessary for JGP. This is because - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire is already defined using JPRS repertoire and ICANN MSR - Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants To put it in the other way around, Japanese LGR-1 is not affected by the definition of MSS, no matter how MSS is defined. This means JGP does not object the current MSS proposal if (1)(2)(3) stand, no matter how MSS is defined. (B) Therefore, MSS can be defined as the union set of current MSS proposal and Japanese LGR-1 repertoire, if CGP and KGP also agree. And the definition of the variants within MSS can be discussed between CGP and KGP. JGP will observe the discussion and the result. Here, if Korean LGR-1 doesn't have variants and KGP decides to basically accept all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, it's pretty straight-forward to define the RootLGR Han variants, because variants are exactly the same as those defined in Chinese LGR-1. (C) JGP just wants to see the Han RootLGR repertoire and variants that can be automatically generated using Yoneya's algorithm and wants to confirm that there is no big problem in the generated Han RootLGR. (D) CGP's proposal using MSS seems to be an ingenuity to speed up and to avoid big backtrack of the LGR development, I think it works if C/J/K repertoires are defined soon (actually CGP and JGP have already defined their draft repertoire). (E) How about using Yoneya's algorithm and terms (such as LGR-1 and LGR-2) in explaining CJK activities and its output to the community and using MSS in speeding up the development? This is because - it is easier to understand - it looks more neutral/fair to all C, J, and K - MSS can be regarded as an intermediate tool that is introduced to speed up Yoneya's algorithm in the case CJK is confronting now. Regards, Hiro On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:38:18 +0800 (GMT+08:00) ��? <wangwei@cnic.cn> wrote:

Dear All

After the discussion in today��s CGP meeting, Prof. ZHANG and Mr. QI Chao

has produced a Minimum Shared Set (MSS) for C, J and K.

The MSS is consisted of the following code point subset:

A: IICore Base (9810, all fall in MSR) B: Historically Registered Hanzi under .CN/TW/HK (7000/5292/4191, all fall in MSR) C: PRC National Normalized Hanzi along with their traditional variants (8105/3489, some out of MSR)

MSS=A+B+C-D-E

D: code points in C, but not in MSR E: Stroke or Radicals (31) LIDU?(5) Out of BMP(62)

finally, we got 12531 valid code points aggregate a Minimum Shared Set,

based on which C, J and K could define their own variants, or adopt others variants.

After all three GPs finish the variants generation and coordinaiton on MSS, each GP still has the chance to add independent code points (with no

variants) into MSS seperately, to from its own final repertoire.

STEP1: MSS generated and accepted by three GPs, a mininum code points set

shared by all of us.

STEP2: variants generated and coordinated based on MSS STEP3: Add each GP's own independent and unrelated code points, form the final formal repertoire.

Does this process work for you? please feel free to give your comments.

Regards

WANG Wei

PS: special thanks for the hardwork of Mr. QI Chao

-----ԭʼ?��----- ?����: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> ?��??: 2015��4��16�� ������ �ռ���: "hotta@jprs.co.jp" <hotta@jprs.co.jp> ����: "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnic.cn>, "Dongman Lee" <dlee@cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43@hotmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh@gmail.com>, Yuri <takamatsu@jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp>, "Zhang Zhoucai" <joe.zhang@unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao@cnnic.cn>" <qichao@cnnic.cn>, "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP@icann.org" <KoreanGP@icann.org>, "ChineseGP@icann.org" <ChineseGP@icann.org>, "JapaneseGP@icann.org" <JapaneseGP@icann.org>, "? ??" <mjkim@kisa.or.kr>, "???" <isanjo@empas.com>, "???" <partizan21@naver.com>, "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> ��?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?

Dear everybody:

KLGP is trying to prepare a repertoire and a variant table.

I would like to get the (or almost?) latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables.

Thanks very much in advance.

--

? ?? KIM, Kyongsok

Dear Hotta San If it is needed, LGR-2 will be a small modification (if any) of Chinese LGR-1 depending on the requirements from J and/or K. :) -----�ʼ�ԭ��----- ������: hotta@jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta@jprs.co.jp] ����ʱ��: 2015��4��24�� 16:50 �ռ���: ��? ����: 'KIM Kyongsok'; 'Dongman Lee'; 'Joe Zhang'; 'Wang Wei'; 'Kenny Huang'; 'Yuri'; 'Yoshiro YONEYA'; 'Zhang Zhoucai'; qichao@cnnic.cn; 'Zhiwei Yan'; KoreanGP@icann.org; ChineseGP@icann.org; JapaneseGP@icann.org; '? ??'; '???'; '???' ����: Re: ��?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables? Dear Wang Wei, On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:15:39 +0800 <wangwei@cnic.cn> wrote:

Dear Hotta San, Dear All

Yes, I think Yoneya' algorithm and terms work for us.

The above words ease me a lot:-)

I think if everything goes smoothly, Han full-repertoire will be unified set = Chinese LGR-1 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire

agreed.

Which means, Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants and basically accepts all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, and so do Korean LGR-1 In that case, MSS will never be used.

confirmed. (my understanding was correct:-)

MSS is defined as limited sub-set of CGP repertoire, which contains proposed variants and will be used to coordinate with J and K

confirmed. (my understanding was correct:-)

It means, some specific code points in MSS, CGP might delete them or change their status according to the coordination result. (especially in the case like "��" and "�C")

confirmed with thanks. (my understanding was correct:-)

In that case, Han full-repertoire = Chinese LGR-2 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire

here I understand that Chinese LGR-2 will be the same as Chinese LGR-1 or just a small modification (if any) of Chinese LGR-1 depending on the requirements from J and/or K..

Anyway, as Hotta mentioned, MSS is only an intermediate tool that is introduced to speed up Yoneya's algorithm.

confirmed. (my understanding was correct:-) Thanks a lot, Wang wei. Regards Hiro

Regards Wang Wei

-----?��ԭ��----- ?����: hotta@jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta@jprs.co.jp] ?��??: 2015��4��22�� 13:23 �ռ���: ��? ����: KIM Kyongsok; Dongman Lee; Joe Zhang; Wang Wei; Kenny Huang; Yuri; Yoshiro YONEYA; Zhang Zhoucai; <qichao@cnnic.cn>; Zhiwei Yan; KoreanGP@icann.org; ChineseGP@icann.org; JapaneseGP@icann.org; ? ??; ???; ??? ��?: Re: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?

Dear Wang Wei,

I appreciate your effort in making the way easier and faster. I think I understand the purpose of the introduction of MSS, and you have my sympathy to some extent.

Please see my observation and comments below. I need your and everybody's feedback.

===

Here, let me use the technical terms in Yoneya's algorithm we tentatively agreed in Dallas.

<premises>

(1) Japanese LGR-1 definition is almost finished by JGP - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire : intersection of JPRS repertoire and MSR - Japanese LGR-1 variants : no variants - dispositions in Japanese LGR-1 : all characters in Japanese LGR-1 are 'allocatable' - Japanese LGR-1 WLE : no rules in WLE

(2) JGP has tentatively decided that Japanese LGR-2 would basically accept all the variants defined in Chinese LGR-1 and Korean LGR-1 (the appropriateness of this decision just needs to be confirmed after CGP and KGP define the variants)

(3) Han full-repertoire = Chinese LGR-1 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire

<then let me conclude that>

(A) Definition of MSS is not necessary for JGP.

This is because - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire is already defined using JPRS repertoire and ICANN MSR - Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants

To put it in the other way around, Japanese LGR-1 is not affected by the definition of MSS, no matter how MSS is defined.

This means JGP does not object the current MSS proposal if (1)(2)(3) stand, no matter how MSS is defined.

(B) Therefore, MSS can be defined as the union set of current MSS proposal and Japanese LGR-1 repertoire, if CGP and KGP also agree. And the definition of the variants within MSS can be discussed between CGP and KGP. JGP will observe the discussion and the result.

Here, if Korean LGR-1 doesn't have variants and KGP decides to basically accept all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, it's pretty straight-forward to define the RootLGR Han variants, because variants are exactly the same as those defined in Chinese LGR-1.

(C) JGP just wants to see the Han RootLGR repertoire and variants that can be automatically generated using Yoneya's algorithm and wants to confirm that there is no big problem in the generated Han RootLGR.

(D) CGP's proposal using MSS seems to be an ingenuity to speed up and to avoid big backtrack of the LGR development, I think it works if C/J/K repertoires are defined soon (actually CGP and JGP have already defined their draft repertoire).

(E) How about using Yoneya's algorithm and terms (such as LGR-1 and LGR-2) in explaining CJK activities and its output to the community and using MSS in speeding up the development?

This is because - it is easier to understand - it looks more neutral/fair to all C, J, and K - MSS can be regarded as an intermediate tool that is introduced to speed up Yoneya's algorithm in the case CJK is confronting now.

Regards, Hiro

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:38:18 +0800 (GMT+08:00) ��? <wangwei@cnic.cn> wrote:

...

Dear All

After the discussion in today��s CGP meeting, Prof. ZHANG and Mr. QI Chao

has produced a Minimum Shared Set (MSS) for C, J and K.

...

The MSS is consisted of the following code point subset:

A: IICore Base (9810, all fall in MSR) B: Historically Registered Hanzi under .CN/TW/HK (7000/5292/4191, all fall in MSR) C: PRC National Normalized Hanzi along with their traditional variants (8105/3489, some out of MSR)

MSS=A+B+C-D-E

D: code points in C, but not in MSR E: Stroke or Radicals (31) LIDU?(5) Out of BMP(62)

finally, we got 12531 valid code points aggregate a Minimum Shared Set,

based on which C, J and K could define their own variants, or adopt others variants.

...

After all three GPs finish the variants generation and coordinaiton on MSS, each GP still has the chance to add independent code points (with no

variants) into MSS seperately, to from its own final repertoire.

...

STEP1: MSS generated and accepted by three GPs, a mininum code points set

shared by all of us.

...

STEP2: variants generated and coordinated based on MSS STEP3: Add each GP's own independent and unrelated code points, form the final formal repertoire.

Does this process work for you? please feel free to give your comments.

Regards

WANG Wei

PS: special thanks for the hardwork of Mr. QI Chao

-----ԭʼ?��----- ?����: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> ?��??: 2015��4��16�� ������ �ռ���: "hotta@jprs.co.jp" <hotta@jprs.co.jp> ����: "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnic.cn>, "Dongman Lee" <dlee@cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43@hotmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh@gmail.com>, Yuri <takamatsu@jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya@jprs.co.jp>, "Zhang Zhoucai" <joe.zhang@unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao@cnnic.cn>" <qichao@cnnic.cn>, "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP@icann.org" <KoreanGP@icann.org>, "ChineseGP@icann.org" <ChineseGP@icann.org>, "JapaneseGP@icann.org" <JapaneseGP@icann.org>, "? ??" <mjkim@kisa.or.kr>, "???" <isanjo@empas.com>, "???" <partizan21@naver.com>, "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0@gmail.com> ��?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?

Dear everybody:

KLGP is trying to prepare a repertoire and a variant table.

I would like to get the (or almost?) latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables.

Thanks very much in advance.

--

? ?? KIM, Kyongsok