Re: [lac-discuss-en] [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem
I doubt that Moniker does this as a benevolent way to fund ICANN. Multiple accreditations allow them (perhaps among other things) them to pick up more dropped names quickly, overcoming the rules some registries have in place regarding the number (or rate) of pickups of dropped names. My understanding is that some registries (.org in particular) place additional limits on drop-catching, but I don't recall the details. Alan At 02/04/2012 01:25 PM, Eduardo Diaz wrote:
Wow! This is very interesting. Why somebody will pay ICANN $436k for a no return on investment?
-ed
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com < gbruen@knujon.com> wrote:
(Apologies for list cross-posts)
Folks,
Recent discussions with ICANN compliance have revealed what appears to be a new standard (or perhaps it was always the standard) for triggering Registrar contract obligations. According to compliance, certain contract obligations (like posting of policies, terms, pricing and WHOIS) cannot be enforced until the Registrar actually sponsors domain names.
This came up because several new Registrars did not appear to have these basic components on their websites (some had no website at all). Compliance stated the obligations could not be enforced because the Registrars in question had no domains yet.
In my view this presents a number of problems. The first is that Registrars should demonstrate their ability and willingness to provide required services before sponsoring domain names. The second is that it would seem a Registrar could be non-transparent to their first customer, hence "chicken-and-egg." Signing of the contract should the trigger these requirements not the presence of domain names.
One additional problem is a little more complex. A Registrar called Nameescape.com LLC has no operational website, this has been the case for several years and possibly since they were accredited. This Registrar is a Moniker shell company, who already has 109 superfluous accreditations. At one point the cartels would at least attempt to appear independent, now it seems there is no long even a pretense and accreditations can simply become "placeholders." This isn't a simple problem since these additional accreditations allow Moniker to add $436,000 to ICANN's coffers each year, and now it appears they don't have to pretend to actually want to sell domain names. It's something to think about as we continue to discuss COI.
Thanks, Garth
-------------------------------------
Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
617-947-3805 http://www.knujon.com http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/149/724 The Death of the Internet: How It May Happen and How It Can Be Stopped, ISBN:1118062418 Linkedin Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1870205 Blog: http://www.circleid.com/members/3296/ Twitter: @Knujon
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I'm concerned about the very specific influence this creates if a registrar decides to drop all of their extra accreditations at once, pulling up to 4% ICANN's budget out from under the organization. It is a Sword of Damocles http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:40:02 To: Eduardo Diaz<eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>; Garth Bruen at Knujon com<gbruen@knujon.com> Cc: LACRALO discussion list<lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org>; <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem I doubt that Moniker does this as a benevolent way to fund ICANN. Multiple accreditations allow them (perhaps among other things) them to pick up more dropped names quickly, overcoming the rules some registries have in place regarding the number (or rate) of pickups of dropped names. My understanding is that some registries (.org in particular) place additional limits on drop-catching, but I don't recall the details. Alan At 02/04/2012 01:25 PM, Eduardo Diaz wrote:
Wow! This is very interesting. Why somebody will pay ICANN $436k for a no return on investment?
-ed
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com < gbruen@knujon.com> wrote:
(Apologies for list cross-posts)
Folks,
Recent discussions with ICANN compliance have revealed what appears to be a new standard (or perhaps it was always the standard) for triggering Registrar contract obligations. According to compliance, certain contract obligations (like posting of policies, terms, pricing and WHOIS) cannot be enforced until the Registrar actually sponsors domain names.
This came up because several new Registrars did not appear to have these basic components on their websites (some had no website at all). Compliance stated the obligations could not be enforced because the Registrars in question had no domains yet.
In my view this presents a number of problems. The first is that Registrars should demonstrate their ability and willingness to provide required services before sponsoring domain names. The second is that it would seem a Registrar could be non-transparent to their first customer, hence "chicken-and-egg." Signing of the contract should the trigger these requirements not the presence of domain names.
One additional problem is a little more complex. A Registrar called Nameescape.com LLC has no operational website, this has been the case for several years and possibly since they were accredited. This Registrar is a Moniker shell company, who already has 109 superfluous accreditations. At one point the cartels would at least attempt to appear independent, now it seems there is no long even a pretense and accreditations can simply become "placeholders." This isn't a simple problem since these additional accreditations allow Moniker to add $436,000 to ICANN's coffers each year, and now it appears they don't have to pretend to actually want to sell domain names. It's something to think about as we continue to discuss COI.
Thanks, Garth
-------------------------------------
Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
617-947-3805 http://www.knujon.com http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/149/724 The Death of the Internet: How It May Happen and How It Can Be Stopped, ISBN:1118062418 Linkedin Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1870205 Blog: http://www.circleid.com/members/3296/ Twitter: @Knujon
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I'm concerned about the very specific influence this creates if a registrar decides to drop all of their extra accreditations at once, pulling up to 4% ICANN's budget out from under the organization.
Given ICANN's large reserve account (if they haven't speculated it all away with bad investments) and the generally increasing income from everything else, I wouldn't worry too much about a 4% one time drop. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
But it would be a permanent drop, not a single-year event. -------------------------------------------------- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:13 AM To: <gbruen@knujon.com> Cc: "LACRALO discussion list" <lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem
I'm concerned about the very specific influence this creates if a registrar decides to drop all of their extra accreditations at once, pulling up to 4% ICANN's budget out from under the organization.
Given ICANN's large reserve account (if they haven't speculated it all away with bad investments) and the generally increasing income from everything else, I wouldn't worry too much about a 4% one time drop.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
John, do you know offhand how much is in the reserve? -------------------------------------------------- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:13 AM To: <gbruen@knujon.com> Cc: "LACRALO discussion list" <lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem
I'm concerned about the very specific influence this creates if a registrar decides to drop all of their extra accreditations at once, pulling up to 4% ICANN's budget out from under the organization.
Given ICANN's large reserve account (if they haven't speculated it all away with bad investments) and the generally increasing income from everything else, I wouldn't worry too much about a 4% one time drop.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
John, do you know offhand how much is in the reserve?
They publish the numbers: https://charts.icann.org/public/index-finance-reserveB.html Looks to me like it currently contains about $50 million. In answer to another comment, it really is a reserve, not a dedicated fund or anything else. R's, John
Ok, that's a fair amount. However, in this hypothetical the reserve would be chipped away at year after year. How long would that be appropriate? I'm not debating, I'm really just trying to play it all out. -------------------------------------------------- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 11:29 PM To: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com> Cc: "LACRALO discussion list" <lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem
John, do you know offhand how much is in the reserve?
They publish the numbers:
https://charts.icann.org/public/index-finance-reserveB.html
Looks to me like it currently contains about $50 million. In answer to another comment, it really is a reserve, not a dedicated fund or anything else.
R's, John
Ignoring that revenues are generally increasing and will so perhaps greatly with new gTLDs, budgets are always supposed to be set based on projected revenue. If ICANN had to constrain its budget some, that would be exactly what some folks say it needs anyway. Alan At 04/04/2012 10:17 AM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote:
Ok, that's a fair amount.
However, in this hypothetical the reserve would be chipped away at year after year. How long would that be appropriate?
I'm not debating, I'm really just trying to play it all out.
-------------------------------------------------- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 11:29 PM To: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com> Cc: "LACRALO discussion list" <lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] "Chicken and Egg" Problem
John, do you know offhand how much is in the reserve?
They publish the numbers:
https://charts.icann.org/public/index-finance-reserveB.html
Looks to me like it currently contains about $50 million. In answer to another comment, it really is a reserve, not a dedicated fund or anything else.
R's, John
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However, in this hypothetical the reserve would be chipped away at year after year. How long would that be appropriate?
Unless ICANN is wilfully stupid (yes, I know) in subsequent years they'd adjust the budget to match the anticipated revenue, as they have done every year since they were founded. R's, John
participants (4)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Garth Bruen at Knujon.com -
gbruen＠knujon.com
-
John R. Levine