Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?Opini=F3n__ADIAR_s/Pres=�_LACRAL = =?iso-8859-1?q?O =
[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]] Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?Opini=F3n__ADIAR_s/Pres=È_LACRAL = =?iso-8859-1?q?O = From: to cetic@ajudicialmdp.org.ar Esimado Mr. president TO FIX, desire to clarify to him that ourarguments have founded on the internal right of iCANN, like in the one of the right international public Por such reason is not injuntos nor infundados. As man of the right You will know - if she is that she had time to review documentary sent by the ICANN- staff that stops to grant validity to sayings elements, the same one must be given an expert opinion on, since we have objected formally some questions of the mentioned ones, because this conflict must be put under a a Court the International to be derimido. The generalized sensation is that there was fraud, or at least "thingsvery strange and suspicious ", that has generated a great indignation. There is one measurement of forces between two sectors. On the one hand, a manifestation of one popular political position, of indignation and a reclamation of Justice. By another one side, is a show of force that I say "I have the apparatus to join with my leaders a certain amount of people and to use that politically in a speech ". The problem is that, finally, it is sure that integrity intellectual is sold and who, it is totally sure that there are sectors that single they represent companies disguised with skin of users. The problem is that it is naked, that we do not have democracy. That we have market, and that everything is on sale. The final scrutiny in Mexico gave as winning Salt mines I carry, in anAssembly that it did not oppose this act and that finalized with the proclamation of the same one like president. By means of he happens of worthy ilusionismo of David Copperfield, Secretary and official of the election act Sanmuls Carlton expressed despues of more of it blows days that were mistaken in a count - we agreethat they were not as much voters-and proclaimed like president to another person, contravening the rules of ICANN, since it is faculty of the Assembly to emit this uprising, that it did not happen and at the moment cannot exist since wewere outside term of the celebration of the Asamlea celebrated in Mexico. And finally since You offer in generalized form the one example presidential or parliamentary selection in any democratic state stops to maintain an irregularity in the electoral procedure, Is worth like example concrete, happened in Cordoba - Argentina the locality of San Basilio, department River Fourth. Electoral justice qualified eight (tables. BUT MAIL ENTERED TEN (10) TABLES! The results, with the aggregate of the ballot boxes ' mágicas' was ' obvios': Schiaretti 1,401 votes (62%); Judge232 votes (10%). By means of this singular ' métodó, Of the Sota ' added to him ' in favor of its dolphin around 30,000 suffrages. To remember that the result ' oficial', grants to him an advantage to Juan Schiaretti, of 15,000 units. In spite of all the maneuvers, Judge also prevailed in the selections. Before which, Of the Sota, in connivencia with Of Vido, Jaime and Di Tail, decided to adulterate all the comicio. The ' Electoral' Meeting began to count, in first term, the votes of distant localities to more than 300 kilometers, of the capitalcity. Tendencialmente, more inclined to ' delasotismó.Que Luís Judge, devoid of ' aparató, could not control of way ' finá. (Léase, that its little ones public prosecutors could be bought by the oficialismo). With which, to 12 of night, the results indicated a distorted image: apparently ' contundenté victory of the pro-government candidate, by more than 25 points percentage. As Mondays work, most of the Cordovans, they went to sleep early, with the image of a new delasotista triumph. In measurement that ' entraron' (good short while later), to the computers, the results of the city of Cordova (two of the dawn), Luís Judge, first, began a to match. And, minutes later, it happened to win. But!!..... happened another miracle !!!...... Fell The SYSTEM ONE HOUR STOPPED! ......... When it is started again scrutiny, Schiaretti, new miracle! (and they go), it happens to gain!!!.......... boy I gave Tail had ordered, to not only forge the data entry.It was arrived to the overflow of trasmutar telegrams and acts comiciales!!!!Para to understand this well it is necessary to remember some electoral regulations. That it is understood well, we did not denounce simply that data have been forged, we say that Carlton proclaimed a president officially, guaranteed by all presents there and that the faculty had to oppose it were the Assembly reunited in Mexico, because one did not become, then that doesnot demand its right in due time and form it is perdidoso, they are not emotional messages, they are principles of the right, if to You you overcome a procedural term to him, are won, otherwise there would not be security in the right, nor we would believe in justice. Therefore we requested the intervention of a Court the International, and we recognize Sergio Saline I carry like President, without damage of the greater one of the respect that to us Andrés deserves, which personally I have pronounced it. CRISTIAN CASAS-CETIC > Dear friends > > > > In my character of President of the Association of Computer science Right of > Argentina I feel forced to express my opinion on the sad episode that > we are living. > > Hago presents/displays in first I finish that although I didnot concur to the meeting of Mexico, > I have followed close by occurred there through our representative in > this meeting the Dr Agustín Bastanchuri. > > > > Evidently in the meeting of Mexico, by a serious error in the account of > votes, I reach the conclusion that he had been elect president Señor > Sergio Saline I carry. > > > > Later, when taking place the definitive scrutiny of the votes, was noticed > of the error that had been committed, and that as a result of same the president > chosen was not Sergio Saline I carry, but Andrés Seat, reason why I notify myself > to all of that error and I proclaim myself completely like President to Andrés > Seat. > > > > Lamentably those in favor of Salt mines! I carry nonsingle have not accepted that > situation, but that has pronounced a series of unjust and infundadas > accusations, I create fruit but of the difficult lived moment, that of its real one > thought. Even some, I believe that very unfortunately, it attributes to > situation objective international policitos > > > In any democratic, single process after the definitive scrutiny > really proclaims the chosen candidates, and it is thus, since what > matters is what really it happened and the reality of the votes and not them aspects > formal previous that does not reflect the real one to feel of the voting members of > organization. > > > > Fíjense that made a presidential or parliamentary selection in nobody > democratic state, takes place a first scrutiny, occurs to know the winner, > the loser publicly accepts its defeat and even congratulates (this happens almost > always), but that does not mean that the electoral process has finalized and that > in principle win! ning he can assume its position. The process really finalizes !
when t he count of the votes takes place that can or not to agree with > first scrutiny (provisory) and is yes come then to proclaimto the elect one. > > > > This is what in one it orbits very smaller, happened in Mexico, and the final result > proclaims to Andrés Seat like President. > > > > As somebody said, the emitted votes are what they give the character of sovereign a > the assembly and not them formal announcements, that, if they were mistaken, must be > corrected. We must act and judge the situation with objective criteria and no > to let take to us by subjectivities. > > > > Is simply for that reason that our organization, the Association of Right > Computer science of Argentina understands that the chosen President is Mr. Andrés > Seat to that I believe that all we must give our vote him of confidence. > > > > I do not know personally Saline Mr. Sergio I carry, but theample one > concept that of is had in Argentina like good man, reason why I hope > reflects on this situ! ation and knows to accept that its investiture cannot > to be like fruit of a provisory and erroneous proclamation,and that must accept > and to give validity to the final scrutiny of the votes andto its result that a proclaims > Andrés Seat like President of LACRALO. > > > > My warm greetings for all > > > > > Horacio Fernandez Delpech > > President of the Association of Computer science Right of Argentina (TO FIX) > > > > http://www.adiar.info/ > > to www.hfernandezdelpech.com.ar > > > > _______________________________________________ > lac-discuss-is mailing list > lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es_atlarge-lists... > > http://www.lacralo.org >
_______________________________________________ [[--Original text (es) http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/7c12fdd881.html --]]
So basically you are saying that if the count was right, but the calculation and the announcement were wrong, we have to override the expressed wishes of the GA (as shown by the actual undisputed count of votes) and have as President the person who DID NOT WIN the vote in the GA? That is fraud! How can you possibly say that to perpetuate the error and ignore the expressed vote of the ALSes in Mexico City would be a democratic outcome? That's not any kind of democracy that I know, and I have lived and worked and participated in democratic societies for my entire life. There's no dispute on the votes, on who voted for whom, or the number of votes. The dispute is over whether a mathematical error that caused an erroneous announcement should override a valid election. It's clear how the GA voted. It's clear that the count of the actual votes is valid. We can all do the Maths and calculate correctly that based on the undisputed raw count of the valid votes cast in the valid election in Mexico City, the winner of the election was Andres Piazza. That announcement was made some days later. It's the correct one, based on the votes. The VOTE as expressed by the GA is what is sacrosant. The votes were cast, and their result must be implemented. Otherwise it's a sham and totally undemocratic, and everyone who is pushing for this abuse of the democratic system should be ashamed to even say the word democracy! BTW - I didn't have a vote, I had no preference in the election and this is purely a stand on DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE. (Before people start to attack me and say it's because I prefer one to the other) If everything had been the other way around, I'd still say the same thing - the vote is sacrosant, and the intention of the assembly as evidenced by the actual undisputed count of votes is what must be implemented. Jacqueline cetic@ajudicialmdp.org.ar wrote:
[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?Opini=F3n__ADIAR_s/Pres=È_LACRAL = =?iso-8859-1?q?O = From: to cetic@ajudicialmdp.org.ar
Esimado Mr. president TO FIX, desire to clarify to him that ourarguments have founded on the internal right of iCANN, like in the one of the right international public Por such reason is not injuntos nor infundados. As man of the right You will know - if she is that she had time to review documentary sent by the ICANN- staff that stops to grant validity to sayings elements, the same one must be given an expert opinion on, since we have objected formally some questions of the mentioned ones, because this conflict must be put under a a Court the International to be derimido.
The generalized sensation is that there was fraud, or at least "thingsvery strange and suspicious ", that has generated a great indignation. There is one measurement of forces between two sectors. On the one hand, a manifestation of one popular political position, of indignation and a reclamation of Justice. By another one side, is a show of force that I say "I have the apparatus to join with my leaders a certain amount of people and to use that politically in a speech ". The problem is that, finally, it is sure that integrity intellectual is sold and who, it is totally sure that there are sectors that single they represent companies disguised with skin of users.
The problem is that it is naked, that we do not have democracy. That we have market, and that everything is on sale.
The final scrutiny in Mexico gave as winning Salt mines I carry, in anAssembly that it did not oppose this act and that finalized with the proclamation of the same one like president. By means of he happens of worthy ilusionismo of David Copperfield, Secretary and official of the election act Sanmuls Carlton expressed despues of more of it blows days that were mistaken in a count - we agreethat they were not as much voters-and proclaimed like president to another person, contravening the rules of ICANN, since it is faculty of the Assembly to emit this uprising, that it did not happen and at the moment cannot exist since wewere outside term of the celebration of the Asamlea celebrated in Mexico.
And finally since You offer in generalized form the one example presidential or parliamentary selection in any democratic state stops to maintain an irregularity in the electoral procedure, Is worth like example concrete, happened in Cordoba - Argentina the locality of San Basilio, department River Fourth. Electoral justice qualified eight (tables. BUT MAIL ENTERED TEN (10) TABLES! The results, with the aggregate of the ballot boxes ' mágicas' was ' obvios': Schiaretti 1,401 votes (62%); Judge232 votes (10%). By means of this singular ' métodó, Of the Sota ' added to him ' in favor of its dolphin around 30,000 suffrages. To remember that the result ' oficial', grants to him an advantage to Juan Schiaretti, of 15,000 units. In spite of all the maneuvers, Judge also prevailed in the selections. Before which, Of the Sota, in connivencia with Of Vido, Jaime and Di Tail, decided to adulterate all the comicio. The ' Electoral' Meeting began to count, in first term, the votes of distant localities to more than 300 kilometers, of the capitalcity. Tendencialmente, more inclined to ' delasotismó.Que Luís Judge, devoid of ' aparató, could not control of way ' finá. (Léase, that its little ones public prosecutors could be bought by the oficialismo). With which, to 12 of night, the results indicated a distorted image: apparently ' contundenté victory of the pro-government candidate, by more than 25 points percentage. As Mondays work, most of the Cordovans, they went to sleep early, with the image of a new delasotista triumph. In measurement that ' entraron' (good short while later), to the computers, the results of the city of Cordova (two of the dawn), Luís Judge, first, began a to match. And, minutes later, it happened to win. But!!..... happened another miracle !!!...... Fell The SYSTEM ONE HOUR STOPPED! ......... When it is started again scrutiny, Schiaretti, new miracle! (and they go), it happens to gain!!!.......... boy I gave Tail had ordered, to not only forge the data entry.It was arrived to the overflow of trasmutar telegrams and acts comiciales!!!!Para to understand this well it is necessary to remember some electoral regulations.
That it is understood well, we did not denounce simply that data have been forged, we say that Carlton proclaimed a president officially, guaranteed by all presents there and that the faculty had to oppose it were the Assembly reunited in Mexico, because one did not become, then that doesnot demand its right in due time and form it is perdidoso, they are not emotional messages, they are principles of the right, if to You you overcome a procedural term to him, are won, otherwise there would not be security in the right, nor we would believe in justice. Therefore we requested the intervention of a Court the International, and we recognize Sergio Saline I carry like President, without damage of the greater one of the respect that to us Andrés deserves, which personally I have pronounced it. CRISTIAN CASAS-CETIC > Dear friends > > > > In my character of President of the Association of Computer science Right of > Argentina I feel forced to express my opinion on the sad episode that > we are living. > > Hago presents/displays in first I finish that although I didnot concur to the meeting of Mexico, > I have followed close by occurred there through our representative in > this meeting the Dr Agustín Bastanchuri. > > > > Evidently in the meeting of Mexico, by a serious error in the account of > votes, I reach the conclusion that he had been elect president Señor > Sergio Saline I carry. > > > > Later, when taking place the definitive scrutiny of the votes, was noticed > of the error that had been committed, and that as a result of same the president > chosen was not Sergio Saline I carry, but Andrés Seat, reason why I notify myself > to all of that error and I proclaim myself completely like President to Andrés > Seat. > > > > Lamentably those in favor of Salt mines! I carry nonsingle have not accepted that > situation, but that has pronounced a series of unjust and infundadas > accusations, I create fruit but of the difficult lived moment, that of its real one > thought. Even some, I believe that very unfortunately, it attributes to > situation objective international policitos > > > In any democratic, single process after the definitive scrutiny > really proclaims the chosen candidates, and it is thus, since what > matters is what really it happened and the reality of the votes and not them aspects > formal previous that does not reflect the real one to feel of the voting members of > organization. > > > > Fíjense that made a presidential or parliamentary selection in nobody > democratic state, takes place a first scrutiny, occurs to know the winner, > the loser publicly accepts its defeat and even congratulates (this happens almost > always), but that does not mean that the electoral process has finalized and that > in principle win! ning he can assume its position. The process really finalizes !
when t he count of the votes takes place that can or not to agree with > first scrutiny (provisory) and is yes come then to proclaimto the elect one. > > > > This is what in one it orbits very smaller, happened in Mexico, and the final result > proclaims to Andrés Seat like President. > > > > As somebody said, the emitted votes are what they give the character of sovereign a > the assembly and not them formal announcements, that, if they were mistaken, must be > corrected. We must act and judge the situation with objective criteria and no > to let take to us by subjectivities. > > > > Is simply for that reason that our organization, the Association of Right > Computer science of Argentina understands that the chosen President is Mr. Andrés > Seat to that I believe that all we must give our vote him of confidence. > > > > I do not know personally Saline Mr. Sergio I carry, but theample one > concept that of is had in Argentina like good man, reason why I hope > reflects on this situ! ation and knows to accept that its investiture cannot > to be like fruit of a provisory and erroneous proclamation,and that must accept > and to give validity to the final scrutiny of the votes andto its result that a proclaims > Andrés Seat like President of LACRALO. > > > > My warm greetings for all > > > > > Horacio Fernandez Delpech > > President of the Association of Computer science Right of Argentina (TO FIX) > > > > http://www.adiar.info/ > > to www.hfernandezdelpech.com.ar > > > > _______________________________________________ > lac-discuss-is mailing list > lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es_atlarge-lists... > > http://www.lacralo.org >
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[[--Original text (es) http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/7c12fdd881.html --]]
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participants (2)
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cetic＠ajudicialmdp.org.ar -
Jacqueline A. Morris