[[-- Translated text (es -> en) --]] Okay, but what the governance group and the board discuss must be put to the consideration of the RALO, with sufficient time for analysis. There were already many things that did not go through the RALO. Greetings Alberto Soto From: lac-discuss-es<lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> In the name of Carlos Dionisio Aguirre Sent on: Monday, June 3, 2024 10:22 To: Harold Arcos<harold.arcos@gmail.com> ; Vanda Scartezini<vanda@scartezini.org> CC: LACRALO<lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-es] CIP-LAC, ERA Re: CIP - LAC Request for Feedback Hello everyone, I have seen and analyzed the exchange of emails on this matter and I appreciate your participation and contributions, since being delegates of the region At the CIP CCG, we cannot speak for ourselves or what we particularly think or think about any of the topics that are discussed there. Until now Our participation in the group was symbolic and due to the lack of feedback from the region, your contributions will be transferred to the consideration of the CIP from now on, however I understand and also believe Christelle that these comments that you make should be systematized and agreed/consensual among the members of the governance group or board of directors of the region, in order to have a homogeneous position or one that the region maintains, since in this intersection of communications there are positions that are not entirely coincident. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre _____ From: lac-discuss-es <lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Harold Arcos <harold.arcos@gmail.com <mailto:harold.arcos@gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2024 7:47 PM To: Vanda Scartezini <vanda@scartezini.org <mailto:vanda@scartezini.org>> CC: LACRALO <lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-es] CIP-LAC, ERA Re: CIP - LAC Request for Feedback Thank you, Vanda, for the contribution on the writing. In fact, the writing focuses on highlighting and asking how the so/ac constitution can internally render even its substructures. Then the general discussion about the concept of alac and at large is generated. Atlarge we are the ralos plus the Alac? It would be an interesting approach that places each ralo in the position of semi-autonomy that it has. While on the other hand, Alan Greenberg's comment referred to a concept where Ralos should supposedly be accountable to Alac. Obviously that would be questionable because Alac would be assuming us as its substructures while reality dictates that from each continent we send members to participate in Alac and we are not subordinated from the top down, but rather our participation is bottom-up. I would also add that finally we have a Memorandum of Understanding with ICANN, not with Alac. That could help locate more panorama. This is being discussed recently on our cip delegate list. We will continue updating you 👍🏼 Greetings Vanda harold Sent through my H device. Sorry for the typos and brevity Sun., June 2 2024 15:23, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@scartezini.org <mailto:vanda@scartezini.org>> wrote: Hello, in principle 4 of the retelling of accounts, I agree with maintaining the principles from the bottom up and not as I think. I have suggested Alan that the Ralos lend accounts to ALAC. For me, we go to the rest of the board - to participate in discussions if elected - but my position is to suggest a wording in this sense Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos On 1 Jun 2024, at 16:35, Sergio Salinas Porto via lac-discuss-es <lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:  Thank you Harold, for putting this on the list, we are already working in the Goberbaza Group on this topic as requested by the region in our last monthly meeting. I make some contributions to the discussions that are taking place around the CIP, so that our representatives can go with something in their hands, both on 06/03/2024 and 06/05/2024. I think it is very important that our representatives can represent our voice and not only raise their voice alone, for them all of us have to propose to give contributions so that they can demonstrate knowing that they are carrying the collective voice of the region. There has been discussion within the CIP about the wording in which we name or propose questions to the different principles raised (five principles). In these discussions it is noted that the 5 principles begin with SO/Ac/Nomcom... and it is seen that, for example, in principle number 4, which talks about constituent groups, that Nomcom (one of the named groups) does not have a constituent group, since the others do have them, then I suggest that, in order not to modify the wording of all the principles, the position of APRALO, raised by Justine Chew, can be followed, where they say that some clarification should be made about a particular group (such as example ALAC), is done by means of a footnote. Going fully into principle number 4, which in the meeting we had on Thursday in the LACRALO Governance Group together with our representative in the CIP Carlos Aguirre, emphasized this point and which in my opinion is the point that It seems that more conversations are being held. This point is about accountability, I understand that we should join the position provided by AFRALO, expressed by its representative Tijani Ben Jemaa, in which he values the primary constitution of ICANN, stating that we are within a multistakeholder model with a process of Button Up policy construction and that ALAC is made up of 2/3 parts by representatives of their respective RALOS, therefore ALAC should be accountable to the RALOS, as they are accountable to their ALSs and individual members that make up the regional ecosystem . Any other position on ALAC accountability, in my opinion, would break the Buttom Up principle and give wrong signals, which would allow, among other things, the horror that happened recently with the issue of travel policies. A big hug to everyone Sergio Salinas Porto Internet President Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN<https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo> Argentine Association of Internet Users<http://www.internauta.org.ar/> /FeTIA<http://www.fetia.org.ar/> FUILAC- Federation of Internet Users of LAC<https://fuilac.org/> facebook: salinasporto<http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> twitter: sergiosalinas<http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas> Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819 "I wish we could be disobedient, every time we receive orders that humiliate our conscience or violate our common sense" Eduardo Galeano On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 1:08 p.m., Harold Arcos ( <harold.arcos@gmail.com <mailto:harold.arcos@gmail.com>>) wrote: Good morning region, I'm stopping by to remind you that we have a Consultation in Progress. I once again share the link to the document with the 5 principles proposed by the general CIP group (Continuous Improvement Program, for its acronym in English): In the link we share, you can see the context of this creation, the 5 Principles and the question: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uQf54kae3tI8gKP4agOwJFzGMYNJb4StoVCNn4rm... Please share your Answer by leaving a Comment in the Doc or by sending it to this Regional Mailing List thread. Reviewing the language used in Principle #4 is an important point. Please focus on Principle #4 that has generated questions from colleagues in LAC and other regions such as: Does the ALAC structure include Ralos? AtLarge are we the Ralos + Alac without substructure relationship? As one of the important issues for the regions, I am following and accompanying the work of our delegates Carlos Dionisio and Christelle and since the end of May I have been replacing Christelle because she is unable to address this issue for a while. Next Wednesday, June 5, we will be delivering to the global CIP group the compilation of opinions that Lacralo has left in the Doc to later discuss in our session during the Icann80 meeting in Kigali. Hug Harold Arcos President LACRALO - Icann +593 962 792 117 The invitation remains for you to share your opinions and questions that arise about each Principle. I appreciate the comments and notes of those who have already left their contributions. On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 5:22 PM Harold Arcos <harold.arcos@gmail.com <mailto:harold.arcos@gmail.com>> wrote: Thank you very much Alejandro for sharing your comments and thoughts through this channel. In fact, these characteristic phrases are an example of an ideal state and it is our duty at this moment to break them down and find a way to adjust them to a tangible reality. The challenge that is being presented to us in the cip is precisely to try to bring this to earth and not remain just mere illusions. We can run the risk of not generating new criteria and allowing ourselves to be carried away by the tide of concepts that have been useless in the past. We are in contact. Greetings harold Sent through my H device. Sorry for the typos and brevity Tue, Apr 30 2024 15:20, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty@gmail.com <mailto:apisanty@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear Harold, The 5 principles stated represent an ideal state that should prevail in some future, is this correct? In that sense, and thinking about the ridiculously long time horizon of the "Holistic Review", which points to 2030, any statement of good intentions like this is a good thing. It is what is known in English as "motherhood and apple pie", something so generally accepted as good that no one can dare to object to it, and at the same time, so general that it is completely devoid of meaning. Point 1 refers to the entity (SO, AC, etc.) "doing what it should do" (and has already been objected to in comments to the document). It should be more specific for each entity; for example, for LACRALO and other RALOs, "it produces technically informed policy development recommendations, applicable in the short term, robust in the long term, and the product of broad, participatory, multisectoral deliberation that reflects diversity, is well documented and reasoned." , transparent and with the representativeness and conflicts of interest of the parties fully clarified". THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE. I do believe that this is a good principle, and that the community that supports it must be aware of how far and through what steps it is from achieving it; for example, the dissolution of the entity and its full refoundation with organizations capable of complying with the principle. The same analysis can be extended to at least the first 4 principles, and the contributions of the different entities in their contribution to 5. Alejandro Pisanty On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 10:59 AM Harold Arcos <harold.arcos@gmail.com <mailto:harold.arcos@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear Region, We have an open consultation in progress to provide feedback on the 5 Principles created by the Continuous Improvement Process (CIP) group that will serve as a Framework for future Holistic Review work, as already reported by our delegates Carlos Aguirre and Christelle Vaval in past monthly meetings. In the link we share, you can see the context of this creation, the 5 Principles and the question: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uQf54kae3tI8gKP4agOwJFzGMYNJb4StoVCNn4rm... Please share your Response by leaving a Comment in the Doc or by sending it to the Regional Mailing List, starting with the Subject: CIP-LAC. . . The question to answer is at the end of Table ES-EN: Question for Lacralo's consideration: Are you comfortable with the five principles developed by the CIP-CCG (derived from Article 4.4 of the ICANN Bylaws) to serve as a common basis across all structures? We will be compiling the answers at 22UTC each day starting today; Thanks in advance for the contributions Brotherly greeting harold ________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org <http://www.lacralo.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com <http://pisanty.blogspot.com/> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org <http://www.isoc.org/> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org <http://www.lacralo.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org <http://www.lacralo.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org <http://www.lacralo.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org <http://www.lacralo.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.