Re: [lac-discuss-es] At-Large: Parte del sector privado? Parte de la Sociedad Civil?
[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: At-Large: Parte del sector privado? Parte de la Sociedad Civil? De: carlton.samuels@gmail.com Alberto: Aquí está, presumiblemente, citando la ley argentina: '* En Argentina, la Ley de Protección al Consumidor, dice en su artículo 1. Este ley tiene por objeto proteger a los consumidores o usuarios. consumidor se considera a la persona física o jurídica que adquiere o utiliza, de forma gratuita o por consideración, bienes o servicios como un fin en sí mismos o para su familia o grupo social. * * Aquí y en todo el mundo, el usuario final tiene dos defensores. Uno para cuando tiene problemas con productos o servicios; y para defender sus intereses dentro de ICANN. '* Hubiera sido tan útil si este bit de beca fue ejercida perteneciente a la acusación en contra de Lance Hinds en las últimas elecciones [en] acción en LACRALO. Supongo que usted ve el ALS Iberoamericana como defensor de los consumidores y usuarios los derechos de la ICANN, sí? Así que ahora, en el derecho argentino, los consumidores y los usuarios son co-definidos y son reconocidos como los dos "personas naturales y jurídicas". Piense en la cantidad de dolor que podría haber salvado a nosotros mismos con una pequeña demostración de liderazgo? Usted podría haber salvado a todos nosotros de escuchar la opinión de la dullard del mundo que suelen enmascararse opinión en cuanto informado en LACRALO. Ese punto de vista de la dullard originó en Argentina me hace doblemente seguro de que lo que ocurrió en esa elección fallida fue una conspiración y con apariencia de ignorancia. Ritz-Carlton Samuels ============================== Carlton Un Samuels Móvil: 876-818-1799 * Estrategia, Planeación, Gobierno, Evaluación y plazos de entrega * ============================= El Lun, 31 de agosto 2015 a las 8:12 de la tarde, Alberto Soto <asoto@ibero-americano.org> escribió:
Dear Alan, I did a semantic analysis, using the dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy.
Public Sector: all public organizations and agencies, organizations and companies subject to them.
Private Sector: That is not public or state property, but belongs to individuals.
Society: natural grouping of people agreed that unit are different from each of the individuals, in order to meet, through mutual cooperation, all or any of the purposes of life.
Civil society, private sector, citizens and society relationships and private activities.
In the Latin world, we have two large sectors: the public sector (government) and the (non-governmental) Private Sector. In the latter enters the civil society and non-governmental sectors all we know.
This is quite consistent with the definition of the World Bank. Although I agree that it should include the end user.
In Argentina, the Law on Consumer Protection says in his article 1. This law aims to protect consumers or users. consumer is considered to the natural or legal person who acquires or uses, free of charge or for consideration, goods or services as an end in themselves or for their family or social group.
Here and all over the world, the end user has two defenders. One for when you have problems with goods or services; and we to defend their interests within ICANN.
But in my opinion, again, the end user must appear as such when the components of civil society are described.
Regards
Alberto
*De:* alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] *En nombre de *Alan Greenberg *Enviado el:* lunes, 31 de agosto de 2015 12:59 p. m. *Para:* ALAC <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Asunto:* [ALAC] At-Large: Part of the Private Sector? Part of Civil Society?
These two questions seem to be coming up regularly. The current draft proposal of the CCWG-Accountability refers to ICANN being leg by the "Private Sector (as opposed to the Public Sector - Governments), and includes us in the Civil society part of the private sector.
Looking at definitions can be useful. There are many of both terms.
The most common definition of the Private Sector says it is everything that is not funded or controlled by government. Many definitions even explicitly list individuals as part of it. That certainly includes us.
Some definitions talk about three groups, the public sector, the private sector (referring to for-profit organizations) and the "Voluntary Sector". The latter certainly includes the formal parts of At-Large, but really leaves individuals, who are no longer part of ANY of the sectors.
From my perspective, that means that if we are part of the "Private Sector", we better be explicitly listed as such.
I would appreciate hearing how these terms are defined in other languages and cultures.
The Wikipedia defines Civil Society as "aggregate of non-governmental organizations and institutions that manifest interests and will of citizens." Civil society includes the family and the private sphere, referred to as the "third sector" of society, distinct from government and business.
The World Bank has a more detailed definition: the term civil society to refer to the wide array of *non-governmental and not-for-profit organizations that have a presence in public life, expressing the interests and values of their members or others, based on ethical, cultural, political, scientific, religious or philanthropic considerations. Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) therefore refer to a wide of array of organizations: community groups, non-governmental organizations (NGOs), labor unions, indigenous groups, charitable organizations, faith-based organizations, professional associations, and foundationsâ.*
In both definitions, Civil Society is listed as essentially being defines as groups of one form or another. By those definitions, At-large and our components parts are certainly civil society, but the individuals whose interests we defend are not part of civil society per se.
Thoughts?
Alan
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_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
[[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/9d931aeee2.html --]]
Estimado Carlton, lamento tu equivocación, este es el cajón de manzanas, y has traído peras. Disculpas al resto de la lista. Saludos cordiales Alberto Soto -----Mensaje original----- De: lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de carlton.samuels@gmail.com Enviado el: miércoles, 2 de septiembre de 2015 4:19 p. m. Para: lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org; ALAC <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] At-Large: Parte del sector privado? Parte de la Sociedad Civil? [[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: At-Large: Parte del sector privado? Parte de la Sociedad Civil? De: carlton.samuels@gmail.com Alberto: Aquí está, presumiblemente, citando la ley argentina: '* En Argentina, la Ley de Protección al Consumidor, dice en su artículo 1. Este ley tiene por objeto proteger a los consumidores o usuarios. consumidor se considera a la persona física o jurídica que adquiere o utiliza, de forma gratuita o por consideración, bienes o servicios como un fin en sí mismos o para su familia o grupo social. * * Aquí y en todo el mundo, el usuario final tiene dos defensores. Uno para cuando tiene problemas con productos o servicios; y para defender sus intereses dentro de ICANN. '* Hubiera sido tan útil si este bit de beca fue ejercida perteneciente a la acusación en contra de Lance Hinds en las últimas elecciones [en] acción en LACRALO. Supongo que usted ve el ALS Iberoamericana como defensor de los consumidores y usuarios los derechos de la ICANN, sí? Así que ahora, en el derecho argentino, los consumidores y los usuarios son co-definidos y son reconocidos como los dos "personas naturales y jurídicas". Piense en la cantidad de dolor que podría haber salvado a nosotros mismos con una pequeña demostración de liderazgo? Usted podría haber salvado a todos nosotros de escuchar la opinión de la dullard del mundo que suelen enmascararse opinión en cuanto informado en LACRALO. Ese punto de vista de la dullard originó en Argentina me hace doblemente seguro de que lo que ocurrió en esa elección fallida fue una conspiración y con apariencia de ignorancia. Ritz-Carlton Samuels ============================== Carlton Un Samuels Móvil: 876-818-1799 * Estrategia, Planeación, Gobierno, Evaluación y plazos de entrega * ============================= El Lun, 31 de agosto 2015 a las 8:12 de la tarde, Alberto Soto <asoto@ibero-americano.org> escribió:
Dear Alan, I did a semantic analysis, using the dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy.
Public Sector: all public organizations and agencies, organizations and companies subject to them.
Private Sector: That is not public or state property, but belongs to individuals.
Society: natural grouping of people agreed that unit are different from each of the individuals, in order to meet, through mutual cooperation, all or any of the purposes of life.
Civil society, private sector, citizens and society relationships and private activities.
In the Latin world, we have two large sectors: the public sector (government) and the (non-governmental) Private Sector. In the latter enters the civil society and non-governmental sectors all we know.
This is quite consistent with the definition of the World Bank. Although I agree that it should include the end user.
In Argentina, the Law on Consumer Protection says in his article 1. This law aims to protect consumers or users. consumer is considered to the natural or legal person who acquires or uses, free of charge or for consideration, goods or services as an end in themselves or for their family or social group.
Here and all over the world, the end user has two defenders. One for when you have problems with goods or services; and we to defend their interests within ICANN.
But in my opinion, again, the end user must appear as such when the components of civil society are described.
Regards
Alberto
*De:* alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] *En nombre de *Alan Greenberg *Enviado el:* lunes, 31 de agosto de 2015 12:59 p. m. *Para:* ALAC <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Asunto:* [ALAC] At-Large: Part of the Private Sector? Part of Civil Society?
These two questions seem to be coming up regularly. The current draft proposal of the CCWG-Accountability refers to ICANN being leg by the "Private Sector (as opposed to the Public Sector - Governments), and includes us in the Civil society part of the private sector.
Looking at definitions can be useful. There are many of both terms.
The most common definition of the Private Sector says it is everything that is not funded or controlled by government. Many definitions even explicitly list individuals as part of it. That certainly includes us.
Some definitions talk about three groups, the public sector, the private sector (referring to for-profit organizations) and the "Voluntary Sector". The latter certainly includes the formal parts of At-Large, but really leaves individuals, who are no longer part of ANY of the sectors.
From my perspective, that means that if we are part of the "Private Sector", we better be explicitly listed as such.
I would appreciate hearing how these terms are defined in other languages and cultures.
The Wikipedia defines Civil Society as "aggregate of non-governmental organizations and institutions that manifest interests and will of citizens." Civil society includes the family and the private sphere, referred to as the "third sector" of society, distinct from government and business.
The World Bank has a more detailed definition: the term civil society to refer to the wide array of *non-governmental and not-for-profit organizations that have a presence in public life, expressing the interests and values of their members or others, based on ethical, cultural, political, scientific, religious or philanthropic considerations. Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) therefore refer to a wide of array of organizations: community groups, non-governmental organizations (NGOs), labor unions, indigenous groups, charitable organizations, faith-based organizations, professional associations, and foundationsâ€.*
In both definitions, Civil Society is listed as essentially being defines as groups of one form or another. By those definitions, At-large and our components parts are certainly civil society, but the individuals whose interests we defend are not part of civil society per se.
Thoughts?
Alan
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_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
[[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/9d931aeee2.html --]] --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
participants (2)
-
Alberto Soto -
carlton.samuels＠gmail.com