Re: [Latingp] Summary of Latin GP Meeting on 2 July 2020
Here the motivation was not language but visual similarity, no? On 7/9/20, 11:49 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Mats Dufberg" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> wrote: I do not think that this is more "language" then other considerations that we have done, eg. f and f with a tail. Mats --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://secure-web.cisco.com/1lr0VZLUlpV7xo04A3vHiPkq3XPNdfH1dqjlgvD5Nbp6Zrq... -----Original Message----- From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Reply to: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka@verisign.com> Date: Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:54 To: "Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Summary of Latin GP Meeting on 2 July 2020 It is a fine line between solutions i.e. variant or no variant relationship, so I understand the disagreement. Re: The stability issue I was referring to would be one where the browsers behave in conformance to the user's locale settings. So for example, a user using a Turkish system goes to one website one day; another day the same user using a non-Turkish system (and using the same browser brand) types the same domain name but the browser resolved it to a different website, because the system locale was different. Browsers have solved for this issue, albeit at a cost for Turkish users. In my mind, since the DNS behavior is stable (due to the browser's implementation), then the only thing left is user expectation. The RZ-LGR should not cater to languages, otherwise all sort of user expectation behavior could be argued for inclusion. This is why I don't agree that a variant relationship is warranted. Again, it is a fine line. We can state all of the pros and cons and find some consensus, and move on. Dennis On 7/9/20, 4:20 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> wrote: Hi all, even though I usually side with Dennis, when it comes to creating variant relations (especially regarding similar/same looking characters), I have to agree with Bill in this point. The dotless I is only used in Turkish and Azerbaijan and we've heard from those communities (we might want to check with Azerbaijan, too, before making a final decision) that there is confusion: If a capital dotless I (i.e., "our" I) is used, it is not clear to them to which lower-case I this is referring. Sure, the browsers lowercase it to i, but many other computer software lowercases it to the dotless i. Even though this is not a stability issue, as Dennis said, the behaviour in DNS is well defined and stable, it is a security issue. Therefore I think they should be variants. Regarding the question whether they're blocked or allocatable, I'd vote for having dotless I -> I: allocatable I -> dotless I: blocked Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-bnZn6-Dr_lb-jmxFuKh32IcWZWqRzjuk1ySIqN07HMzjf... _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1lkgMlbb5K8XJ2GM2RiJXRpcjzDzNvFK4Ek8O4UNBWbMyXc...) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1HPr3HlZA0YZxu0pFpzYRaI22Oe-VYEY1rTNFWcfYJ3Y98f...). 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The motivation is that those two shapes are used as the same in some (language) communities. Mats --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ -----Original Message----- From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka@verisign.com> Date: Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 18:01 To: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: Re: [Latingp] Summary of Latin GP Meeting on 2 July 2020 Here the motivation was not language but visual similarity, no? On 7/9/20, 11:49 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Mats Dufberg" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> wrote: I do not think that this is more "language" then other considerations that we have done, eg. f and f with a tail. Mats --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://secure-web.cisco.com/1lr0VZLUlpV7xo04A3vHiPkq3XPNdfH1dqjlgvD5Nbp6Zrq... -----Original Message----- From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Reply to: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka@verisign.com> Date: Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 16:54 To: "Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Summary of Latin GP Meeting on 2 July 2020 It is a fine line between solutions i.e. variant or no variant relationship, so I understand the disagreement. Re: The stability issue I was referring to would be one where the browsers behave in conformance to the user's locale settings. So for example, a user using a Turkish system goes to one website one day; another day the same user using a non-Turkish system (and using the same browser brand) types the same domain name but the browser resolved it to a different website, because the system locale was different. Browsers have solved for this issue, albeit at a cost for Turkish users. In my mind, since the DNS behavior is stable (due to the browser's implementation), then the only thing left is user expectation. The RZ-LGR should not cater to languages, otherwise all sort of user expectation behavior could be argued for inclusion. This is why I don't agree that a variant relationship is warranted. Again, it is a fine line. We can state all of the pros and cons and find some consensus, and move on. Dennis On 7/9/20, 4:20 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> wrote: Hi all, even though I usually side with Dennis, when it comes to creating variant relations (especially regarding similar/same looking characters), I have to agree with Bill in this point. The dotless I is only used in Turkish and Azerbaijan and we've heard from those communities (we might want to check with Azerbaijan, too, before making a final decision) that there is confusion: If a capital dotless I (i.e., "our" I) is used, it is not clear to them to which lower-case I this is referring. Sure, the browsers lowercase it to i, but many other computer software lowercases it to the dotless i. Even though this is not a stability issue, as Dennis said, the behaviour in DNS is well defined and stable, it is a security issue. Therefore I think they should be variants. Regarding the question whether they're blocked or allocatable, I'd vote for having dotless I -> I: allocatable I -> dotless I: blocked Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-bnZn6-Dr_lb-jmxFuKh32IcWZWqRzjuk1ySIqN07HMzjf... _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1lkgMlbb5K8XJ2GM2RiJXRpcjzDzNvFK4Ek8O4UNBWbMyXc...) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1HPr3HlZA0YZxu0pFpzYRaI22Oe-VYEY1rTNFWcfYJ3Y98f...). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1c58LMQ960Pqb0gGsvyWSYRoaMvos6kiBXZjMtw_JbELS8u... _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1TleSdpmDjbiO4iAfeoNK6oQmpRz55IBDU7uovEx3L60snC...) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1WeuxVS3tXfiEKFix_UuxMmbgzsf95wx62Xz6Rz1uRyd4VB...). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1c58LMQ960Pqb0gGsvyWSYRoaMvos6kiBXZjMtw_JbELS8u... _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1TleSdpmDjbiO4iAfeoNK6oQmpRz55IBDU7uovEx3L60snC...) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1WeuxVS3tXfiEKFix_UuxMmbgzsf95wx62Xz6Rz1uRyd4VB...). 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participants (2)
-
Mats Dufberg -
Tan Tanaka, Dennis