new character to be included in MSR
Dear Pitinan, as discussed briefly during the face-to-face meeting, the Latin GP is requesting to have the "ela geminada" used by the Catalan language to be made available for TLDs (as it's an integral part of their language). For this, we would need the middle dot (U+00B7) to be included in MSR. Of course, we would only include the character sequence U+006C U+00B7 U+006C l·l in our repertoire. Please take a look at the .cat IDN table, which already allows this character. Catalan has an EGIDS scale of 2. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Michael, Thank you for your email. We will forward this Latin GP's request to the IP to be considered in the next version of the MSR. Regards, Pitinan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <michael.bauland@knipp.de> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 15:08 To: Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Cc: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org>, "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org> Subject: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Pitinan, as discussed briefly during the face-to-face meeting, the Latin GP is requesting to have the "ela geminada" used by the Catalan language to be made available for TLDs (as it's an integral part of their language). For this, we would need the middle dot (U+00B7) to be included in MSR. Of course, we would only include the character sequence U+006C U+00B7 U+006C l·l in our repertoire. Please take a look at the .cat IDN table, which already allows this character. Catalan has an EGIDS scale of 2. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Michael, Latin GP members, Thank you for the query. Please find below the response from IP. Please let us know if you have any follow up questions. Regards, Sarmad With respect to the inquiry related to us about U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT, we regret to inform you that the status of this code point under IDNA 2008 is CONTEXTO, as can be seen on this excerpt of the IANA IDNA2008 parameters as found at https://www.iana.org/assignments/idna-tables-6.3.0/idna-tables-6.3.0.xhtml#i... Per section 5 of MSR-4, published as https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-4-overview-25jan19-en.pdf [icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system...> , this status is also listed in the MSR itself, and the MSR states in Section 5.2: "code points requiring a CONTEXTO rule in IDNA2008 are excluded from the MSR". This restriction is imposed on the MSR by the RZ-LGR Procedure, published at https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf [icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system...> , which states in Section B.3.4.2: "code points permitted by IDNA2008 under the CONTEXTO and CONTEXTJ rules are automatically excluded". Unfortunately, this restriction is not up for revision within the scope of the RZ-LGR project. Sincerely, Integration Panel -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <michael.bauland@knipp.de> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 7:08 PM To: Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Cc: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org>; latingp@icann.org Subject: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Pitinan, as discussed briefly during the face-to-face meeting, the Latin GP is requesting to have the "ela geminada" used by the Catalan language to be made available for TLDs (as it's an integral part of their language). For this, we would need the middle dot (U+00B7) to be included in MSR. Of course, we would only include the character sequence U+006C U+00B7 U+006C l·l in our repertoire. Please take a look at the .cat IDN table, which already allows this character. Catalan has an EGIDS scale of 2. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: <mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: <mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Sarmad, thank you for forwarding the reply from the IP. I would like to add the following two comments for the IP: 1. The section the IP refers to is about "Creating the Variant Rules", we just want to extend our repertoire, not define variants, but that's probably just a formality. What I find much more important is: 2. The reasoning for the exclusion in Section B.3.4.2 is "because those context rules are not simple enough to be appropriate for the root zone." I find this reasoning far too general. In case of the Middle Dot the context rules would state that it must be preceded and followed by a regular lowercase L (as stated in Appendix A.3 of RFC 5892). Whenever Catalan people use the middle dot, they *always* have it surrounded by an L. So the context rule would automatically be followed, without any Catalan even thinking about it. If that isn't simple enough, I don't know. For Catalan people, not allowing the middle dot is similar as if you would tell English people, they may not use the "x" (or any other letter) for root zone labels. You take away a regular letter for 10 million people. Finally, let me add some argument from a native speaker: Contrary to umlauts, or eszett, to cite examples of “IDNs” in a well-known language, there is no alternative for ela geminada (not only from a grammatical point of view, which also happens with diacritical accents or other “special” characters) but even not “visually” (as it happens with, say, é, and e which are not the same but are accepted to look very similar and practical equivalents in DNS. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Michael, A quick clarification question - would you want to forward the following email to the IP or share just the specific comments 1 and 2 ? Regards, Sarmad -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 1:29 PM To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org> Cc: latingp@icann.org; Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Sarmad, thank you for forwarding the reply from the IP. I would like to add the following two comments for the IP: 1. The section the IP refers to is about "Creating the Variant Rules", we just want to extend our repertoire, not define variants, but that's probably just a formality. What I find much more important is: 2. The reasoning for the exclusion in Section B.3.4.2 is "because those context rules are not simple enough to be appropriate for the root zone." I find this reasoning far too general. In case of the Middle Dot the context rules would state that it must be preceded and followed by a regular lowercase L (as stated in Appendix A.3 of RFC 5892). Whenever Catalan people use the middle dot, they *always* have it surrounded by an L. So the context rule would automatically be followed, without any Catalan even thinking about it. If that isn't simple enough, I don't know. For Catalan people, not allowing the middle dot is similar as if you would tell English people, they may not use the "x" (or any other letter) for root zone labels. You take away a regular letter for 10 million people. Finally, let me add some argument from a native speaker: Contrary to umlauts, or eszett, to cite examples of “IDNs” in a well-known language, there is no alternative for ela geminada (not only from a grammatical point of view, which also happens with diacritical accents or other “special” characters) but even not “visually” (as it happens with, say, é, and e which are not the same but are accepted to look very similar and practical equivalents in DNS. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Sarmad, On 11.02.2019 13:33, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
Dear Michael,
A quick clarification question - would you want to forward the following email to the IP or share just the specific comments 1 and 2 ?
anything that increases the chances they will change their mind. So I would say the whole mail, unless you have reasons not to. I know chances are very slim, because of the existing RZ-LGR Procedure, but to every rule there is an exception. ;-) I have some Catalan friends and they are really feeling ignored by ICANN and are very unhappy that it (ICANN) tries to take away an essential letter of their language (for the root zone). Thanks, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Michael, I would suggest we also take the opportunity in Kobe to discuss this further face to face with IP. Regards, Sarmad -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 5:44 PM To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org> Cc: latingp@icann.org; Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Sarmad, On 11.02.2019 13:33, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
Dear Michael,
A quick clarification question - would you want to forward the following email to the IP or share just the specific comments 1 and 2 ?
anything that increases the chances they will change their mind. So I would say the whole mail, unless you have reasons not to. I know chances are very slim, because of the existing RZ-LGR Procedure, but to every rule there is an exception. ;-) I have some Catalan friends and they are really feeling ignored by ICANN and are very unhappy that it (ICANN) tries to take away an essential letter of their language (for the root zone). Thanks, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Saramd, On 27.02.2019 14:07, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
Dear Michael,
I would suggest we also take the opportunity in Kobe to discuss this further face to face with IP.
of course. I would be happy to. Should we already make an appointment now or should we just meet spontaneously. I would be available the whole week from Saturday till Thursday. Maybe we could also invite some Catalan native speaker for the discussion. I know one who will also be in Kobe. See you next week, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Thank you Michael. We will set up a time and get back to you. Regards, Sarmad -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 12:50 PM To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org> Cc: latingp@icann.org; Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Saramd, On 27.02.2019 14:07, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
Dear Michael,
I would suggest we also take the opportunity in Kobe to discuss this further face to face with IP.
of course. I would be happy to. Should we already make an appointment now or should we just meet spontaneously. I would be available the whole week from Saturday till Thursday. Maybe we could also invite some Catalan native speaker for the discussion. I know one who will also be in Kobe. See you next week, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Michael, We have booked the room at the meeting venue as follow: Working Session Latin GP + IP (Web Confirmed) 307 (KICC) Tuesday, March 12, 2019 2:00 PM - 3:00 PM I will send out the calendar invitation shortly. Regards, Pitinan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> Date: Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 14:51 To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@icann.org> Cc: "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org>, Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ext] new character to be included in MSR Dear Saramd, On 27.02.2019 14:07, Sarmad Hussain wrote: > Dear Michael, > > I would suggest we also take the opportunity in Kobe to discuss this further > face to face with IP. of course. I would be happy to. Should we already make an appointment now or should we just meet spontaneously. I would be available the whole week from Saturday till Thursday. Maybe we could also invite some Catalan native speaker for the discussion. I know one who will also be in Kobe. See you next week, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
Dear Pitinan, thank you. I will be there and join the meeting. See you in a few days, Michael PS Bill, will you be there, too? -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
I’m around, so I could attend. What is the agenda for this meeting? Dennis Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland@knipp.de> wrote:
Dear Pitinan,
thank you. I will be there and join the meeting.
See you in a few days,
Michael
PS Bill, will you be there, too?
-- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany
Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de
Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728
Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp
I will. Bill Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 2:47 AM, Michael Bauland<michael.bauland@knipp.de> wrote: Dear Pitinan, thank you. I will be there and join the meeting. See you in a few days, Michael PS Bill, will you be there, too? -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp
participants (5)
-
Bill Jouris -
Michael Bauland -
Pitinan Kooarmornpatana -
Sarmad Hussain -
Tan Tanaka, Dennis