Dear Nadira,

Yes Indeed, someone with no basic writing abilities could come forward to be a pen holder if this is not one of the indicated criteria, why not? As for your question about how do we measure if the participant meets the writing  criterion or not, well that does not only apply to the writing abilities but too the rest of the criteria already set in the charter. 

"Have sufficient expertise in the applicable subject matter;

Commit to actively participate in the drafting operation on an ongoing basis during the whole period of drafting."

So do you think that someone with insufficient  knowledge about the topic would come forward to be a pen holder? and how do you define sufficient and how do you measure it? and in order not to be repetitive the same applies to the second criteria. Your questions with regard to the writing abilities certainly apply to the rest of the criteria already defined in the charter. We are certainly looking for a simple process to encourage people to participate and we are definitely not requiring participants to send resumes.

We set the criteria so that who ever decides to join would know what is expected of him and what he/she is committed too, but I don't think that these criteria by any means are put so that we can start vetting the participants.

As for your comment with regard to the English language skills barrier I reiterate what I said in my previous email, it is not about the English Language knowledge it is about the writing skills, if you have writing skills in any language and can just communicate in English you shall be able to build an initial good statement. It is not about edits required because the pen holder does not have adequate English language knowledge. The suggested criterion simply says that you need to be able to build a coherent statement, "writing abilities".

How can you set a criteria for a writing team that does not include writing? honestly this defies any reason. This criteria is more crucial than the other two.

Nadira, I am afraid you missed the point.

Finally I thank you again for all your effort

 

Kind Regards

Hadia

On Monday, April 8, 2019, 10:17:06 AM GMT+2, Nadira Alaraj <nadira.araj@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Hadia and Peyman,

Thank you for your inputs,

Do you think anyone with no basic writing abilities could come forward to be a penholder? How do you want to examine the level of the writing skills of who volunteer to be a penholder? Can you propose metrics to measure the writing skill?

Again I re-emphasis about the importance of the role of the drafting team to chime in from start.

Currently, at ALAC they're discussing having ICANN staff to do language editing to encourage more penholders to come forward-particularly in its diverse multi-languages community.

Let us think of why ALAC wanted to offer the language service? Sure they wanted to eliminate the English writing skill barriers. 

Personally when I heard about this proposal I was happy and supported it because it encouraged me to be a penholder and I expect it will encourage others.

In the MEAC community a handful of people are educated in an English language settings. How many of them volunteer to be a penholders? What about the majority of MEAC members? Are you suggesting to ask ICANN provide an English language writing skills to its members even though they're very competent in their subject matter?

I hope I managed to make my point clear this time.

Best wishes,

Nadira

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 08:29 Peyman Karimi <peykar@gmail.com> wrote:

I do agree with Hadia.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 4:29 PM 'Hadia El Miniawi' via MEAC SWG <icann-meac-swg@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Nadira,

Though I tend to agree with you on having flexible requirements with regard to the drafting team. If the pen holder has no writing skills whatsoever, the mission becomes impossible for the other drafting team members. Because, first it makes their job very difficult as they need to almost re write what is written and second because the pen holder is the person who at the end of the day accepts or rejects the changes. The drafting team could put the time, but due to the non existent writing abilities of the pen holder the proposals are either not understood or rejected without the pen holder even being able to reasonably explain why or discuss. Having a pen holder who can not draft puts the work and effort of the rest of the team in vain. 

The writing abilities should be one of the criteria required for the pen holder - anyone can join the drafting team, and pose ideas, but to be the pen holder and be required to accept or reject suggestions you should have a minimum base of writing abilities. Otherwise you are wasting the time and effort of everyone else involved in the process for no good reason. 

Having a pen holder with no writing abilities defies the basic concept of collaborative work where each member participates with what he/she can do best. One last thing, I would argue that this has very little to do with the language abilities, most probably if you can draft in any language and can communicate in English there should be no problem with the drafting of the statement. (Just to clarify by writing abilities, I do not mean English language abilities.)  

Finally I would like to thank you Nadira for your wise leadership and for the effort that you and Tijani have put in this work.

Kindest Regards

Hadia   

On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 11:36:15 PM GMT+2, Nadira Alaraj <nadira.araj@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Hadia,

Thank you for your input,  

In drafting the ME Space Charter we tried to spell out the actual task of the space and avoided getting into the details to keep the charter short.

On your recommend of adding "have adequate writing skills", I guess it is going to be challenging particularly most of us English is a second language for us including me.

The statement is supposed to reflect the community opinion hence each member of the drafting team and MEAC community can provide their perspectives and even help in language editing.

The penholder can't do it all, but they could be the one who puts the initial ideas to start soliciting community inputs along the development of the process.  One round the lead team couldn't find a volunteer to be a penholder hence the lead team did take over.

Personally, I would like to relax the requirements on the penholder to encourage more community member to volunteer to be a penholders and learn along the process.  The drafting team will always find the coaching support from the lead team.

From my perspective, stronger role falls on the members of the drafting team to support the development of the first statement and not only the penholder. We would like to see all those who volunteer to draft the statement give hand in it. However we know along the way, something happens and they can't afford the time That is why, if volunteers can anticipate of their load up front to avoid having a non functional drafting team. 

I was the one who  added the observers, because we need to have the window open to our curious members.  Giving observers space to observe and build confidence in the process, will give them  encouragement to be either drafting team members or future penholder.

Best wishes,

Nadira

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 17:36 Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Tijani,

Thank you for your reply, so maybe for the purpose of clarity we need to spell it out, as there could be some sort of confusion about whether the drafting team, the leadership team or some other member could be responsible about this task.  I would like also to suggest adding to the drafting team requirements

"have adequate writing skills "  otherwise you end up with a lot of copy and paste material and mismatching sentences.

so this part of the charter could read

"Best efforts should be made to ensure that the drafting team members: 

• Have sufficient expertise in the applicable subject matter; and adequate writing skills

• Commit to actively participate in the drafting operation on an ongoing basis during the whole period of drafting."

One last thing, I was wondering why wouldn't an observer that wants to be a drafter upgrade his/her status to a member. Why would anyone interested in participating in the drafting process participate as an observer? what is the advantage of that to the group and/or to the observer especially that he/she has no voting rights?

Thank you again

Kind Regards

Hadia

Best efforts should be made to ensure that the drafting team members: • Have sufficient expertise in the applicable subject matter; • Commit to actively participate in the drafting operation on an ongoing basis during the whole period of drafting.

On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 7:27:44 PM GMT+2, Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> wrote:

My dear Hadia,

I thought it was obvious that it’s the leading team who will do it.

Thank you for your comment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Le 4 avr. 2019 à 14:28, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com> a écrit :

Dear Tijani,

Thank you and Nadira for working on this and sharing it. However, it is unclear to me who should be doing this work  "In working towards this deliverable, the ME Space will, as a first step, establish and adopt a work plan and associated schedule. The work plan and schedule should include times and methods for consultation and Proposal revisions, and should establish an expected date for issuing of a final Statement Proposal. This schedule needs to line up with the ICANN Meeting dates." 

I believe that the aforementioned part needs further clarification, as to who should establish the initial work plan, the sentence says "the ME Space will" does this mean that any one from the community can establish the initial work plan?

Thanks

Hadia   

On Tuesday, April 2, 2019, 2:30:05 PM GMT+2, Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> wrote:

Dear all,

After reviewing the various comments on the draft charter circulated for comment prior to ICANN 64 and discussed during the ME Space session in Kobe, the Space Leading Team would like to share with you this last version.

Best

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