On 5/21/07, Nick Ashton-Hart < nick.ashton-hart@icann.org> wrote:

RJ, the other thing I would suggest is establishing rules of
procedure. These are generally separate from constitution-type
documents.

I have prepared, with the LAC secretariat, draft Rules of Procedure
for At-Large; these are available in several languages at
https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?rules_of_procedure.

On 21/05/07, Jacqueline A. Morris <jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> In the OPs, you should have those processes documented. Usually you have a
> quorum requirement for meetings and teleconferences. Decisions made there
> by consensus or by a particular voting process should be binding. Things
> that require a vote by the membership – approval of the MoU, Ops,
> representatives etc should be voted on by the reps to the RALO Assembly (2
> per ALS and 2 for unaffiliated users in the NARALO according to the OPs)
>
> But you need to approve the Operating principles first in order to operate
> by them!
>
> In the interim, from the messages I've seen on the list, you guys have
> agreed processes to vote on the operating principles (or had – now there's
> discussion about counting the votes) and an interim Chair to manage the
> process.
>
> Maybe Bret, Nick or Luc can send a message to the whole list to remind
> everyone of the process and timeline agreed to for the voting on the OP and
> MoU and the election of the Reps etc. and you can move ahead to finish the
> admin bits and get onto the substance of AtLarge representation.
>
>
>
> Jacqueline
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: RJGlass | America@Large [mailto:jipshida@gmail.com]
>  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:44 PM
>  To: jam@jacquelinemorris.com
>  Cc: Thompson, Darlene; Danny Younger; Luc Faubert; Wendy Seltzer; NA
> Discuss
>
>  Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Legal hooks in the MOU
>
>
>
>
> how do we decide what we vote on and what we just discuss as a quorum and
> accept?
>
>  Randy Glass
>  A@L
>
>
> On 5/21/07, Jacqueline A. Morris < jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone
>
> If everyone has to agree to everything then nothing would get done. There
> are processes to deal with disagreements, and if there is no consensus, then
> you vote. Veto power would basically prevent NA region from moving forward
> on the many vital and urgent policy issues in which  the individual users
> you represent are interested.
>
> If you revisit every decision taken in a  meeting that someone doesn't agree
> with (especially if they didn't attend the meeting) that seems to me to be
> trying to institute a veto by delay. You have processes. If the decisions
> are taken in accordance with the process, then they should not be revisited
> unless new information, new members or a sea-change in the thinking of the
> group occurs. In that case, you should have processes to allow for
> revisiting these decisions (usually 2/3 majority in a vote)
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> BTW – Bret, Mr. Interim Chair – how are you going on the MoU and OP
> adoption? I saw a couple emails that indicated confusion about the vote
> counting – has that been sorted?
>
>
>
> Jacqueline
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Thompson, Darlene [mailto:DThompson@GOV.NU.CA]
>  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:53 AM
>  To: Danny Younger; Luc Faubert; Wendy Seltzer; NA Discuss
>
>
>
>  Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Legal hooks in the MOU
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Danny,
>
>
>
>
>
> It is truly a shame, then, that neither you nor Wendy were on that last
> conference call.  You could have voiced your opinions therein.  As it was,
> as Luc states, everybody on the call voted to remove those paragraphs so its
> rather a null issue now - as I see it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Darlene
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>
> From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf
> of Danny Younger
>  Sent: Sat 5/19/2007 8:44 AM
>  To: Luc Faubert; Wendy Seltzer; NA Discuss
>  Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Legal hooks in the MOU
>
>
> I support Wendy's position.  Until such time as
>  At-Large directors are seated on the ICANN Board (an
>  act that would honor the spirit of the White Paper
>  upon which ICANN was built), I don't intend to give an
>  inch on this point.
>
>  Had at-Large Directors been on the Board, do any of
>  you think that we would have gone the last five years
>  without any registrant data escrow services?!!  Do you
>  think that with At-Large Directors on the Board that
>  registrants would still be paying up to $260 to redeem
>  a domaine name from the Redemption Grace Period?
>
>  I'm not interested in "playing nice".  We need to have
>  our community protected, and if legal channels are all
>  that remain, then I will not support any course of
>  action that serves to eliminate third-party
>  beneficiary rights.
>
>
>  --- Luc Faubert <LFaubert@conceptum.ca> wrote:
>
>  > Hello Wendy,
>  >
>  > Yes, I noticed you put these paragraphs back after I
>  > deleted them
>  > yesterday.
>  >
>  > I deleted the paragraphs because of the unanimous
>  > agreement of the
>  > people on our last conference call to do so, as
>  > documented in the
>  > minutes of the call I sent to the list on 04.29.
>  >
>  > I appreciate your concerns. However, the clauses do
>  > not represent the
>  > spirit of mutuality vehiculated in the MOU and the
>  > probality that ICANN
>  > will agree to an MOU carrying these clauses is zero.
>  >
>  > So I would appreciate that you respect the will of
>  > the majority and not
>  > put them back after I delete them again.
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________
>  > Luc Faubert
>  > Conseiller en gouvernance TI et en gestion du
>  > changement /
>  > IT governance and change management consulting
>  > +1 514 236 5129
>  > www.LucFaubert.com
>  > www.LucFaubert.com/blog
>  > www.isoc.qc.ca
>  > www.ccig.ca
>  > www.uqbm.qc.ca
>  > www.maillons.qc.ca
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  > >
>  > [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org]
>  > On Behalf
>  > > Of Wendy Seltzer
>  > > Sent: 19 mai 2007 07:44
>  > > To: NA Discuss
>  > > Subject: [NA-Discuss] Legal hooks in the MOU
>  > >
>  > > I replaced what I thought were important terms in
>  > the draft
>  > > MoU.  Let me explain further why I think they're
>  > important.
>  > >
>  > > > 6.4 Enforcement. In recognition of the
>  > considerable time
>  > > and effort expended by the signing organizations,
>  > ICANN
>  > > agrees that its obligations are legally
>  > enforceable in the
>  > > courts [or arbitral forums] of [jurisdiction]. In
>  > the event
>  > > of breach, ICANN shall be liable for the relying
>  > parties'
>  > > costs and fees.
>  > >
>  > > I think we want this to be more than just pretty
>  > words on
>  > > paper (or screen), but a set of enforceable
>  > obligations to
>  > > which groups can hold ICANN.  This language
>  > specifies the
>  > > recourse in case of breach.
>  > >
>  > > > 6.5 Third-party beneficiaries. This agreement is
>  > made for
>  > > the benefit of the general public. Individual
>  > Internet users
>  > > are its intended beneficiaries, and its terms are
>  > expressly
>  > > enforceable by any member of the public.
>  > >
>  > > The At-Large is supposed to be the mechanism by
>  > which the
>  > > public has input to and participation in ICANN,
>  > say the
>  > > Bylaws.  If we're creating a RALO, we should be
>  > trying to
>  > > give the public as many channels as the structure
>  > allows --
>  > > including, where necessary, the channel of legal
>  > enforcement.
>  > > Third-party beneficiary clauses are the standard
>  > way to
>  > > express that public-benefit aspect.
>  > >
>  > > Unfortunately, past experience with ICANN suggests
>  > that legal
>  > > action is the most effective means to get ICANN's
>  > attention
>  > > and action.  For recent examples,  ICANN did not
>  > respond to
>  > > the RegisterFly crisis until a class action
>  > lawsuit was
>  > > filed.  ICANN renewed Verisign's contract,
>  > allowing price
>  > > increases that harm the end-user, after Verisign
>  > filed suit.
>  > >
>  > > I'm not suggesting that we sue ICANN, but leaving
>  > that option
>  > > available to us or to others strengthens our
>  > bargaining
>  > > position far short of litigation.
>  > >
>  > > These legal "hooks" could provide much greater
>  > opportunity
>  > > for real progress by this RALO and the public.
>  > >
>  > > Thanks,
>  > > --Wendy
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org
>  > > Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Fellow,
>  > Berkman
>  > > Center for Internet & Society
>  > > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html
>  > > http://www.chillingeffects.org/
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > NA-Discuss mailing list
>  > > NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  > >
>  >
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atl
>  > arge-lists.icann.org
>  > > ---
>  > > Draft MoU with ICANN:
>  > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
>  > >
>  > > Draft Operating Principles:
>  > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
>  > >
>  > > Draft Code of Conduct:
>  > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
>  > >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > NA-Discuss mailing list
>  > NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  >
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  > ---
>  > Draft MoU with ICANN:
>  > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
>  >
>  > Draft Operating Principles:
>  > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
>  >
>  > Draft Code of Conduct:
>  > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
>  >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>   NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  ---
>  Draft MoU with ICANN:
>  http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
>
>  Draft Operating Principles:
>   http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
>
>  Draft Code of Conduct:
>  http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
>
>
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>  _______________________________________________
>  NA-Discuss mailing list
>  NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  ---
>  Draft MoU with ICANN:
>  http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
>
>  Draft Operating Principles:
>   http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
>
>  Draft Code of Conduct:
>  http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  -------------------------
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> NA-Discuss mailing list
> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
> ---
> Draft MoU with ICANN:
> http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
>
> Draft Operating Principles:
> http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
>
> Draft Code of Conduct:
> http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
>

--
--
Regards,

Nick Ashton-Hart
PO Box 32160
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