Re: [NA-Discuss] Letter to the Board
Evan, The issue of local user participation ended up being less then optimal due to a couple of reasons. First, repeated requests for a room to host users was blocked - ewith the excuse given that rooms were not free. Of course that was not the case as the at large room was pretty well free when we were nothere. Icann and some alac members expressed the vire informally that a local user event was not in "in the remit of at-large" any sensitive ssues might require that "a formal appology" be given to thee egyptian govt offcials. When aked directly if the video could be shown at the enf of at alac meeting cheryl stated to me that it was possible, only if it was screen by her. I was not awarethat the chair has ever had vetting righs on content Local users did want to come, but with no possible ok from the chair or nick, an adhoc session had to be organized. With little adcance notice - of course few people came. Whilei was very disappointed with the turnout - it was good to see who did attend. It was mainly just the north americans. The rest , well did not seem interested. That alac and at large present did seem interested does not mean that local users did not want to meet us. Comments and blog posting in key MENA sites clearly show that the locals did want to meet us. On the larger issue of engagement, namely virtual participation - I was shocked by the lack of effort undertaken. No dial-in, no open skype (voice) chat, no virtual questions. While in the past (san juan, la, etc) dial-ups did take place - nothing was done in cairo. Voip, is easy to do - and there is no excuse not to allow for virtual participation. In an age where we are more connected then ever, to do nothing - well, if not to care in the least. Indeed, a formal complaint should b e lodged and actions taken to make sure virtual participation - at alac meetings and other icann sessions is not just considered, but actually done in a way that is effective and participatory. Icann can do better on this, it must .. As for the public forum - indeed it seems that the "public participation director" seems to have had little effect in enhancing public participation at meetings. Can one not learn from the US election and use youtube to seek questions and comments and play them back at thr meeting. Sigh. In summary, I think there is a bottom up interest for participation and dialogue - but these are resisted by management who prefer to control the agenda and keep desenting views to a min. What can be done - well, comment and participate using other channels . Perhaps interested actors would be well advised to submit a letter not to the board, but instead to the incoming adminstration . Robert On 11/12/08, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight <michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 7 Nov 2008, at 14:33, Danny Younger wrote:
I am of the view that the ALAC needs to write a very strong letter to the Board expressing their disgust with (1) the manner in which the ICANN Public Forum session was conducted that allowed for a very limited amount of time within which to interact with the Board and (2) the almost total lack of remote participation opportunities that were available to at-large members.
As someone that attempted to participate remotely, I can't point to a single ALAC session that allowed for meaningful remote participation, nor were audio feeds available for many workshops.
This has to be the worst case of both in-person and remote participation management that I have ever seen at an ICANN session.
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Were there issues with the Cairo meeting? Normally I'd have expected to see at least one press release per day etc., etc., I was also interested in following some of the "action" but couldn't see how
Michele
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Dear Robert & Members: As I see that Cheryl has responded to various elements of the below, I will confine my remarks to providing a further clarification with respect to the remote participation issues that have been raised. Many of you will know that I had stated clearly some time in advance of the Cairo meeting that I would not ask for two-way telephonic remote participation at Cairo. This is not because it isn¹t important or because I wished to discourage participation, but because I have requested telephonic participation in every meeting since Sao Paulo, and every time the technical provisions have been entirely unsatisfactory. I have a good deal of personal expertise with the technology involved and I agree that it should work, that it does work for many other communities outside of ICANN, and that periodically it has sort-of worked for ICANN communities. However, it didn¹t seem reasonable to me to tell you all, once again, that we would setup remote participation only to have it be unfit for purpose. I don¹t enjoy letting people down and it seemed to me the better part of valour to see if the new vendor arrangements the Meetings staff are working with had a positive effect on the reliability of technical services for our meetings before trying again. I am informed by other colleagues that there were improvements to the remote participation telephonically in Cairo and the AV facilities in general thanks to new providers and other changes in the way meetings have been conducted. Unfortunately, it was my experience that many of the technical problems that have afflicted At-Large meetings in the past were still afflicting us in Cairo. I would be overjoyed to have reliable remote participation at our meetings via telephone and chat. I will say again what I have said many times, which is that I completely understand that this is not viewed as optional, but as absolutely necessary. I will commit once again to doing all that I can to improving remote participation facilities, but you must understand I am not in control of any aspect of the meetings beyond asking for facilities and room configurations. On 17/11/2008 05:12, "Robert Guerra" <lists@privaterra.info> wrote:
Evan,
The issue of local user participation ended up being less then optimal due to a couple of reasons. First, repeated requests for a room to host users was blocked - ewith the excuse given that rooms were not free. Of course that was not the case as the at large room was pretty well free when we were nothere. Icann and some alac members expressed the vire informally that a local user event was not in "in the remit of at-large" any sensitive ssues might require that "a formal appology" be given to thee egyptian govt offcials.
When aked directly if the video could be shown at the enf of at alac meeting cheryl stated to me that it was possible, only if it was screen by her. I was not awarethat the chair has ever had vetting righs on content
Local users did want to come, but with no possible ok from the chair or nick, an adhoc session had to be organized. With little adcance notice - of course few people came. Whilei was very disappointed with the turnout - it was good to see who did attend. It was mainly just the north americans. The rest , well did not seem interested.
That alac and at large present did seem interested does not mean that local users did not want to meet us. Comments and blog posting in key MENA sites clearly show that the locals did want to meet us.
On the larger issue of engagement, namely virtual participation - I was shocked by the lack of effort undertaken. No dial-in, no open skype (voice) chat, no virtual questions. While in the past (san juan, la, etc) dial-ups did take place - nothing was done in cairo. Voip, is easy to do - and there is no excuse not to allow for virtual participation. In an age where we are more connected then ever, to do nothing - well, if not to care in the least. Indeed, a formal complaint should b e lodged and actions taken to make sure virtual participation - at alac meetings and other icann sessions is not just considered, but actually done in a way that is effective and participatory. Icann can do better on this, it must ..
As for the public forum - indeed it seems that the "public participation director" seems to have had little effect in enhancing public participation at meetings. Can one not learn from the US election and use youtube to seek questions and comments and play them back at thr meeting. Sigh.
In summary, I think there is a bottom up interest for participation and dialogue - but these are resisted by management who prefer to control the agenda and keep desenting views to a min. What can be done - well, comment and participate using other channels . Perhaps interested actors would be well advised to submit a letter not to the board, but instead to the incoming adminstration .
Robert
On 11/12/08, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight <michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 7 Nov 2008, at 14:33, Danny Younger wrote:
I am of the view that the ALAC needs to write a very strong letter to the Board expressing their disgust with (1) the manner in which the ICANN Public Forum session was conducted that allowed for a very limited amount of time within which to interact with the Board and (2) the almost total lack of remote participation opportunities that were available to at-large members.
As someone that attempted to participate remotely, I can't point to a single ALAC session that allowed for meaningful remote participation, nor were audio feeds available for many workshops.
This has to be the worst case of both in-person and remote participation management that I have ever seen at an ICANN session.
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann>>> .org
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Were there issues with the Cairo meeting? Normally I'd have expected to see at least one press release per day etc., etc., I was also interested in following some of the "action" but couldn't see how
Michele
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Robert, I'm just getting caught up on my e-mails but have the following comments in line with yours below. D ________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of Robert Guerra Sent: Sun 11/16/2008 11:12 PM To: At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Letter to the Board Evan, The issue of local user participation ended up being less then optimal due to a couple of reasons. First, repeated requests for a room to host users was blocked - ewith the excuse given that rooms were not free. Of course that was not the case as the at large room was pretty well free when we were nothere. Icann and some alac members expressed the vire informally that a local user event was not in "in the remit of at-large" any sensitive ssues might require that "a formal appology" be given to thee egyptian govt offcials.
A local user event could have been in the remit of at-large but the video that you were wanting to present was on how Egyptian bloggers were getting crapped on by the Egyptian police and government. This issue is NOT in the remit of at-large and would have VERY likely required a formal apology to the Egyptian Government. We cannot be bringing whatever issues we want to an ICANN meeting that are not in ICANN's remit. YES, the treatment that these people are receiving needs to be brought to light but ICANN is not the venue for it. Also, I was shocked to see that you missed ICANN meetings in order to work on that video yourself. As our ALAC rep, you need to have a more narrow focus (on ICANN-related issues) while representing our region abroad. <
When aked directly if the video could be shown at the enf of at alac meeting cheryl stated to me that it was possible, only if it was screen by her. I was not awarethat the chair has ever had vetting righs on content
I don't blame her AT ALL, considering the content of the video. Also, if you had asked to show a "Save the Rainforests" video at an ICANN event, do you think that this should have been allowed? No, wrong content. <
Local users did want to come, but with no possible ok from the chair or nick, an adhoc session had to be organized. With little adcance notice - of course few people came. Whilei was very disappointed with the turnout - it was good to see who did attend. It was mainly just the north americans. The rest , well did not seem interested. That alac and at large present did seem interested does not mean that local users did not want to meet us. Comments and blog posting in key MENA sites clearly show that the locals did want to meet us.
They had multiple times to meet us in the evening and such and only one showed up. Not ONE of them showed up to any other ICANN sessions. Obviously, they weren't too interested in ICANN or its related issues. <
I agree with the rest of what you said below <
On the larger issue of engagement, namely virtual participation - I was shocked by the lack of effort undertaken. No dial-in, no open skype (voice) chat, no virtual questions. While in the past (san juan, la, etc) dial-ups did take place - nothing was done in cairo. Voip, is easy to do - and there is no excuse not to allow for virtual participation. In an age where we are more connected then ever, to do nothing - well, if not to care in the least. Indeed, a formal complaint should b e lodged and actions taken to make sure virtual participation - at alac meetings and other icann sessions is not just considered, but actually done in a way that is effective and participatory. Icann can do better on this, it must .. As for the public forum - indeed it seems that the "public participation director" seems to have had little effect in enhancing public participation at meetings. Can one not learn from the US election and use youtube to seek questions and comments and play them back at thr meeting. Sigh. In summary, I think there is a bottom up interest for participation and dialogue - but these are resisted by management who prefer to control the agenda and keep desenting views to a min. What can be done - well, comment and participate using other channels . Perhaps interested actors would be well advised to submit a letter not to the board, but instead to the incoming adminstration . Robert On 11/12/08, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight <michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 7 Nov 2008, at 14:33, Danny Younger wrote:
I am of the view that the ALAC needs to write a very strong letter to the Board expressing their disgust with (1) the manner in which the ICANN Public Forum session was conducted that allowed for a very limited amount of time within which to interact with the Board and (2) the almost total lack of remote participation opportunities that were available to at-large members.
As someone that attempted to participate remotely, I can't point to a single ALAC session that allowed for meaningful remote participation, nor were audio feeds available for many workshops.
This has to be the worst case of both in-person and remote participation management that I have ever seen at an ICANN session.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org <http://atlarge.icann.org/>
Were there issues with the Cairo meeting? Normally I'd have expected to see at least one press release per day etc., etc., I was also interested in following some of the "action" but couldn't see how
Michele
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...
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participants (3)
-
Nick Ashton-Hart -
Robert Guerra -
Thompson, Darlene