Ummmm... Danny, I *believe* you were on the last telephone call where these policy issues were assigned to various interested parties to be researched, written up and brought forward at our next telephone conference and could also be discussed face-to-face? I think that is progress. Plus, the idea behind the LA meeting, for the NARALO was more to do outreach than policy. So, I think that we have proven that we are trying to do both. Policy on our own and outreach with ICANNs help. What else is there? What MORE are you looking for? D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-6531 Fax: (867) 979-8870 dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:08 AM To: Thompson, Darlene; RJGlass | America@Large; Evan Leibovitch Cc: At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] Schedule Posted for ICANN's 30th International Public Meeting Darlene, Sorry, but I don't see any forward progress on any of the policy elements outlined in the Plan. Without any evidence of policy "work" being accomplished regarding registrant rights, new gTLDs, IDNs, IPv6 or DNSSEC as outlined in the plan, why should ICANN pay for a get-together session? ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

Hi Nick, I really don't want you to get on the defensive here and I am not trying to paint you as the "bad guy". I do, however, think that you were rather overburdened in San Juan and I *know* that I got conflicting instructions from you. Here are my replies to your e-mail: In order for ICANN to allocate funds to something, as I have previously said, there is a form for requesting them which requires a plan and a budget - the budget not being a one-line entry on a spreadsheet, and the plan not being a one-line entry next to it. 1. We were told in San Juan to come up with a plan and that you would be able to do up the budget for it because you are used to doing that. We were not told, at that time, that we needed any special form. We showed this to you and you seemed quite happy with it and did not say "And now here is what you need to do...". 2. This is NOT a one-line entry on a spreadsheet and the plan being a one-line entry next to it. The plan is completely set out on the Wiki page that you down-load the spreadsheet from. There are about 3 different line items in the budget that you were going to help us out on relating to the various things that we were going to do. We seem to be going in circles here, where everytime the circle comes to me, I get to be the bad guy again and go on defense. Not being funny, but we don't get anywhere that way. I agree. We were also being told conflicting things in San Juan and it was rather confusing. First we were told that we WOULD be going to LA since we were actually attending a LAC meeting and since we wouldn't be seeing another NA meeting for three whole years. Then we were told that we weren't. Then we were told to come up with a plan REALLY quickly because you needed it right away and that you would help with it. We dropped everything and came up with the plan and then were not told there were next steps. I'm not sure why Jacob was never in the loop with this because he probably could have helped a lot. I realize that you were over-burdened at San Juan. SO - I'm not pointing fingers here but this IS what happened. Unless somebody else's recollection of event is different from mine? Am I going nuts here? D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-6531 Fax: (867) 979-8870 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________ From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:30 AM To: Thompson, Darlene Cc: RJGlass | America@Large; Evan Leibovitch; At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [At-Large] Schedule Posted for ICANN's 30th International Public Meeting I think perhaps we have been talking at cross-purposes here. I am familiar with the list of priorities; I attended the meeting where they were drawn up. In order for ICANN to allocate funds to something, as I have previously said, there is a form for requesting them which requires a plan and a budget - the budget not being a one-line entry on a spreadsheet, and the plan not being a one-line entry next to it. We had a number of emails about the subject of recruitment at the time, and I believe also this was discussed on one of the monthly teleconferences as well. I remember that I said if you wanted to have a recruitment event associated with the LA meeting, it was for you to tell me what you wanted to do and come up with a plan of what you wanted to do, and that it could not just be a way to get 20 ALSes to come to the LA meeting for a de-facto additonal RALO meeting. We seem to be going in circles here, where everytime the circle comes to me, I get to be the bad guy again and go on defense. Not being funny, but we don't get anywhere that way. I am not sure what is going wrong that these comments are not getting through - perhaps I'm saying it wrong or being unclear in some way but honestly - I'm absolutely certain that all of you would be better-able to suggest how to do North American outreach than I would be. Jacob has resigned, so there is no regional liaison available at the present to help with this. I am happy to help in whatever way I can, but what I have in front of me now is a line or two in a spreadsheet, related to recruitment in LA. With respect to everyone, that isn't a plan. If there's something more and I've missed it, please let me know what it is... or ask me to ring and we can discuss it. That would, it seems to me, be rather more productive than playing email ping-pong on this issue. On 19 Sep 2007, at 14:23, Thompson, Darlene wrote: Frankly, this IS disturbing. At the San Juan meeting, the NARALO was specifically told that if we did not come up with a plan of what we wanted to do this year, then ICANN would have make one up of their own devising. So, to that end, we all met upstairs and came up with a plan: https://st.icann.org/naralo/index.cgi?planning_next_steps_for_na_ralo This plan, along with the budget attached, was discussed more than once over the list and forwarded widely. Staff was also informed that it was up and that they should look at it (since this Wiki seems to be the ICANN choice for information sharing). And then nothing happened. So, if they aren't approving the outreach that we wanted to do in LA, my question is: so what wild and wonderful thing DID they come up with for our region for this year since we have been told NO to almost anything we have wanted to do? Sorry, just my brain dump for the morning. D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-6531 Fax: (867) 979-8870 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________ From: RJGlass | America@Large [mailto:jipshida@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:52 PM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: Thompson, Darlene; At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Schedule Posted for ICANN's 30th International Public Meeting First, I'm not surprised but I am disturbed that ICANN failed to host a NARALO meeting. Anyway, I presume we'll try to be brief yet functional on these matters. I think when you announce the idea, you should solicit input on what the ALSs want to get out of the summit. One session on opening day would be good, and one more later in the week, possibly 3 brief meetings would be better than one. aloha, RJ On 9/18/07, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote: Thompson, Darlene wrote:

I'm thinking that the sooner the better for the first one so that we can all get on the same page and do further planning throughout.

I'm thinking more than one session will be needed.

Anybody else have thoughts on this?

My suggestion is for at least three things: 1) Specific inclusion of a Summit status report and discussion on the ALAC meeting agenda (whenever that takes place) 2) A public meeting to introduce the concept to all ICANN constituencies (early in the week) 3) at least eight hours of planning, of which at least one has Nick (or someone else from ICANN staff) present. Some of this will probably be a small enough group that it can meet in a hotel room rather than requiring the expense of a formal meeting room. - Evan _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org -- ------------------------- AmericaAtLarge.org RJPacific.com DDMF.org _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org

Hi Danny, 1. WOW! Thank you for forwarding this on to us - it really is helpful. 2. Now here is me, speaking as a "newbie": If I got a letter like that, I would still be asking myself why I would bother and why this is of use to me. It wasn't until they did outreach in Toronto with a bunch of us Canadians that I was finally able to wrap my mind around why this stuff should matter to me. John L gave a really good presentation as did others. They brought up problems/concerns/ideas that I, as a general internet user, hadn't even thought of. For someone like you that is REALLY into this stuff, I can understand why you would think that such outreach is silly but it does help those of us that aren't knee deep in ICANN related issues like you are. 3. In San Juan, ICANN was so concerned that the NARALO form up that we all had to miss the meetings that would have given us a grounding in the current ICANN issues and such. So, great. We've formed up and now I see this big discussion about the RAA and I am completely unable to give the slightest opinion on it because I am just completely uninformed about the issues and will likely stay this way until the next meeting. So, basically, in a lot of ways you are right. Why aren't we talking about the issues? Well, I do not feel that I can because I don't think that I understand enough about them. So, in order to try to "help out" in the best way that I can, I've done the Secretariat thing to try to do what I feel I am able to do. I don't think that I am alone out here in feeling left behind and uninformed. Its even worse in the other regions. So, part of our "Outreach" was going to be education. That is what I, personally, think is really needed. Apparently, though, ICANN does not feel this way and would rather have the "window dressing" of having a RALO, whether its effective or not. As to people contacting ICANN - yes, registrants will do so in a "Registerfly" type of fiasco. But what about the end users? They, IMHO, don't even know that this type of thing happens (I didn't before my involvement with ICANN). That is why I think we need to do outreach and education. So, if you ever want to call me (or e-mail me privately) as to why you don't think this effort went ahead before, feel free. Other than that, I look forward to seeing you in LA and look forward to hearing you speak on a subject that you know more about than God himself! D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-6531 Fax: (867) 979-8870 dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 1:18 PM To: Thompson, Darlene; Nick Ashton-Hart Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Outreach Plan Darlene, With regard to an outreach plan, the text below may be of help; it comes from the naralo.info website (now decommissioned -- you can still view it through archive.org) that I set up for my local ISOC chapter many years ago: 1. Organizations throughout North America need to be contacted and made aware of the opportunities for participation in this endeavor. On the "organizations page" you will note that a list is being compiled of organizations that possibly may be responsive to this initiative. The list is being built by feeding keywords to search engines such as COMPUTER USER ASSOCIATIONS, PUBLIC INTEREST ORGANIZATIONS, etc. Deadline for this segment of the project -- February 20. If your organization is not on this list yet, please send us a note. 2. Upon completion of this Outreach List, chapter members will divide the list into manageable units for contact purposes. Contact addresses will need to be researched, and letters and/or e-mail will need to be sent to these organizations so that they may be aware of the opportunity for involvement. A proposed introductory letter is posted here: Subject: Organizational collaboration requested To: the members of [ORGANIZATION], We, the members of the New York Chapter of the Internet Society, have launched a project to facilitate the expression of the public interest to the Board of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN); if at all possible we would appreciate your collaboration in this endeavor which calls for the eventual launch of a North American Regional At-Large Organization to channel such public input to the ICANN Board (please note that ICANN is the private sector, non-profit corporation with technical management responsibilities for the Internet's domain name and address system). Project details are posted at: [URL] At this time we are seeking to collect "Expressions of Interest" from the community which will be forwarded to the Board-appointed North American representatives on ICANN's At-Large Advisory Committee. We ask you to review the nature and scope of the project, and to decide whether your organization might be willing to participate in this effort. Should your organization choose to become involved, we ask that your correspondence be sent to the following address: [e-mailing address] Deadline for initial organizational outreach efforts -- March 20. 3. As we will be collecting "Expressions of Interest" from organizations throughout North America and posting information pertaining to these organizations on the website, it is imperative that a Privacy Policy be established and posted. Deadline for policy development -- March 20. 4. In that the At-Large community consists of individuals as well as organizations, efforts need to be made to reach out to non-affiliated individuals; this will require the drafting and posting of letters to appropriate venues (examples: Slashdot, ICANNwatch, community discussion lists, etc.). A list of such distribution channels will be compiled here: [URL] Deadline for the list preparation -- February 20. Deadline for initial outreach to individuals -- March 20. If you are aware of other outlets for such correspondence, please send us a note. Additional project steps will be added in due course. -------- Darlene, please note that our chapter received an extremely limited number of positive replies to this initiative. I'll be happy to speculate on why this was the case if need be... Frankly, while I am not keen on the concept of pursuing outreach (as I am of the view that when people want to contact ICANN they will -- as illustrated by the flood of correspondence during the RegisterFly fiasco) I am offering this "plan" as a possible guide in the spirit of mutual assistance (even though I don't support the expenditure of such effort that in my view could better be applied to policy development or fact-finding initiatives). best regards, Danny ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/

Darlene: I really cannot imagine how I would have told you that you didn't need to do more than the very brief outlines on the wiki - I was extremely overloaded at San Juan, so perhaps I wasn't clear; it seems that is the case. There has been a form and a process for requesting money for At-Large activities for a year now. When we spoke about the proposal for an At- Large summit I explained that you would need to use that process as that was required for all funds requests. That's what Evan used; my apologies if it was somehow unclear that ALL projects had to use this form, but they do. I did say that I would help with budgeting - but to do that, I would have to have a plan to budget for, and what I have seen is not a plan it is a very general statement or two. I have looked at the page, and I'm sorry but that doesn't BEGIN to approach a plan that I could budget for - or that any decision could be made based upon. Again, if something is missing, then please let me know where it is. I don't know how you could have gotten the idea that you would be going to LA. I recall specifically going over this more than once, including on teleconferences - It has never been possible for one region to go to back-to-back ICANN meetings. You were not attending a LAC meeting - you were attending a NARALO formation meeting - which is what all the agendas said from day one, what the invitation to have travel support said ... You were never invited to attend San Juan as a part of LACRALO. There are dozens of emails about NARALO meeting and North American ALS meeting going back several months. Finally, about the planning things quickly during San Juan - that was about the SUMMIT, not any meetings of NARALO in Los Angeles. This completely mystifies me; we talked about this repeatedly and since you all did actually turn around a proposal for the summit, and not any NARALO meetings, I honestly cannot how you thought anything differently. As to whether or not you are going nuts, I doubt that :) However, what you recollect isn't anything close to what I recall - and in many cases, there is very long chains of emails and recordings of teleconferences where some of these things were discussed that is contrary I believe. Look, this is really very straightforward. ICANN cannot make decisions based upon anything but the same process for everyone, and we cannot be giving one region VASTLY preferential treatment over any others. It would be very helpful if we could stop and simply draw a line here because we are where we are. We can all have many more emails related to what who said to whom when, and I can go dig up emails, and listen again to every teleconference and the like, but to be honest I don't see any value for anyone in any of that. In short: 1) If you want to propose a specific course of action, there is a process and a form associated with that - which is identical to that used for the summit proposal. 2) No region is going to be attending back-to-back ICANN meetings for an All-ALS meeting - there is no budget for that and I refer you all back to my email on the other points related to this. On 19 Sep 2007, at 17:03, Thompson, Darlene wrote:

Hi Nick,

I really don’t want you to get on the defensive here and I am not trying to paint you as the “bad guy”. I do, however, think that you were rather overburdened in San Juan and I *know* that I got conflicting instructions from you. Here are my replies to your e- mail:

In order for ICANN to allocate funds to something, as I have previously said, there is a form for requesting them which requires a plan and a budget - the budget not being a one-line entry on a spreadsheet, and the plan not being a one-line entry next to it.

We were told in San Juan to come up with a plan and that you would be able to do up the budget for it because you are used to doing that. We were not told, at that time, that we needed any special form. We showed this to you and you seemed quite happy with it and did not say “And now here is what you need to do…”. This is NOT a one-line entry on a spreadsheet and the plan being a one-line entry next to it. The plan is completely set out on the Wiki page that you down-load the spreadsheet from. There are about 3 different line items in the budget that you were going to help us out on relating to the various things that we were going to do.

We seem to be going in circles here, where everytime the circle comes to me, I get to be the bad guy again and go on defense. Not being funny, but we don't get anywhere that way.

I agree. We were also being told conflicting things in San Juan and it was rather confusing. First we were told that we WOULD be going to LA since we were actually attending a LAC meeting and since we wouldn’t be seeing another NA meeting for three whole years. Then we were told that we weren’t. Then we were told to come up with a plan REALLY quickly because you needed it right away and that you would help with it. We dropped everything and came up with the plan and then were not told there were next steps. I’m not sure why Jacob was never in the loop with this because he probably could have helped a lot. I realize that you were over- burdened at San Juan. SO – I’m not pointing fingers here but this IS what happened.

Unless somebody else’s recollection of event is different from mine? Am I going nuts here?

D

Darlene A. Thompson

Community Access Program Administrator

Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP

c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910

Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0

Phone: (867) 975-6531

Fax: (867) 979-8870

dthompson@gov.nu.ca

From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:30 AM To: Thompson, Darlene Cc: RJGlass | America@Large; Evan Leibovitch; At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [At-Large] Schedule Posted for ICANN's 30th International Public Meeting

I think perhaps we have been talking at cross-purposes here.

I am familiar with the list of priorities; I attended the meeting where they were drawn up.

In order for ICANN to allocate funds to something, as I have previously said, there is a form for requesting them which requires a plan and a budget - the budget not being a one-line entry on a spreadsheet, and the plan not being a one-line entry next to it.

We had a number of emails about the subject of recruitment at the time, and I believe also this was discussed on one of the monthly teleconferences as well. I remember that I said if you wanted to have a recruitment event associated with the LA meeting, it was for you to tell me what you wanted to do and come up with a plan of what you wanted to do, and that it could not just be a way to get 20 ALSes to come to the LA meeting for a de-facto additonal RALO meeting.

We seem to be going in circles here, where everytime the circle comes to me, I get to be the bad guy again and go on defense. Not being funny, but we don't get anywhere that way. I am not sure what is going wrong that these comments are not getting through - perhaps I'm saying it wrong or being unclear in some way but honestly - I'm absolutely certain that all of you would be better- able to suggest how to do North American outreach than I would be. Jacob has resigned, so there is no regional liaison available at the present to help with this. I am happy to help in whatever way I can, but what I have in front of me now is a line or two in a spreadsheet, related to recruitment in LA. With respect to everyone, that isn't a plan. If there's something more and I've missed it, please let me know what it is... or ask me to ring and we can discuss it. That would, it seems to me, be rather more productive than playing email ping-pong on this issue.

On 19 Sep 2007, at 14:23, Thompson, Darlene wrote:

Frankly, this IS disturbing. At the San Juan meeting, the NARALO was specifically told that if we did not come up with a plan of what we wanted to do this year, then ICANN would have make one up of their own devising. So, to that end, we all met upstairs and came up with a plan:

https://st.icann.org/naralo/index.cgi?planning_next_steps_for_na_ralo

This plan, along with the budget attached, was discussed more than once over the list and forwarded widely. Staff was also informed that it was up and that they should look at it (since this Wiki seems to be the ICANN choice for information sharing).

And then nothing happened.

So, if they aren’t approving the outreach that we wanted to do in LA, my question is: so what wild and wonderful thing DID they come up with for our region for this year since we have been told NO to almost anything we have wanted to do?

Sorry, just my brain dump for the morning.

D

Darlene A. Thompson

Community Access Program Administrator

Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP

c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910

Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0

Phone: (867) 975-6531

Fax: (867) 979-8870

dthompson@gov.nu.ca

From: RJGlass | America@Large [mailto:jipshida@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:52 PM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: Thompson, Darlene; At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Schedule Posted for ICANN's 30th International Public Meeting

First, I'm not surprised but I am disturbed that ICANN failed to host a NARALO meeting.

Anyway, I presume we'll try to be brief yet functional on these matters.

I think when you announce the idea, you should solicit input on what the ALSs want to get out of the summit. One session on opening day would be good, and one more later in the week, possibly 3 brief meetings would be better than one.

aloha, RJ

On 9/18/07, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:

Thompson, Darlene wrote:

...

I'm thinking that the sooner the better for the first one so that we can all get on the same page and do further planning throughout.

I'm thinking more than one session will be needed.

Anybody else have thoughts on this?

My suggestion is for at least three things:

1) Specific inclusion of a Summit status report and discussion on the ALAC meeting agenda (whenever that takes place)

2) A public meeting to introduce the concept to all ICANN constituencies (early in the week)

3) at least eight hours of planning, of which at least one has Nick (or someone else from ICANN staff) present. Some of this will probably be a small enough group that it can meet in a hotel room rather than requiring the expense of a formal meeting room.

- Evan

_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge- lists.icann.org

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