Last month we discussed the OnlineNic situation.
From the minutes: "This is an ICANN accredited registrar that was convicted of cyber-squatting. ICANN should de-register them. Danny would like our rep at the ALAC meeting tomorrow to forward the view that appropriate enforcement action must be taken. Beau has seconded that. All in agreement."
Of course, to date, the ALAC has done nothing to specifically address the NARALO concern regarding OnlineNic's accreditation status. No surprise there as the ALAC is as close to useless as one could imagine. Now we get yet another report that OnlineNic has been hit with yet another lawsuit (fourth one by my count) for trademark infringement -- see http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=43567 One has to wonder how many more lawsuits it will take before ICANN recognizes that it has a very bad apple that must be removed from the barrel.
I haven't read or listened to the minutes from the ALAC meeting. Was this brought forward to ALAC? If so, what WAS the outcome from it? Thank you to anybody who answers! D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:54 PM To: NA Discuss Subject: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again Last month we discussed the OnlineNic situation.
From the minutes: "This is an ICANN accredited registrar that was convicted of cyber-squatting. ICANN should de-register them. Danny would like our rep at the ALAC meeting tomorrow to forward the view that appropriate enforcement action must be taken. Beau has seconded that. All in agreement."
Of course, to date, the ALAC has done nothing to specifically address the NARALO concern regarding OnlineNic's accreditation status. No surprise there as the ALAC is as close to useless as one could imagine. Now we get yet another report that OnlineNic has been hit with yet another lawsuit (fourth one by my count) for trademark infringement -- see http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=43567 One has to wonder how many more lawsuits it will take before ICANN recognizes that it has a very bad apple that must be removed from the barrel. ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .icann.org Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Darlene, These are the relevant minutes: 2. Reported cases of non-compliance issues with the RAA B Brendler called the attention of the ALAC to a number of comments received concerning specific compliance issues (onlineNic, GoDaddy) and referred to D Younger’s comment requesting the ALAC to advise the ICANN Board to revoke the accreditation of failing registrars. C Langdon-Orr said these cases could be used to serve in the RRA WG. At ALAC level they can only be discussions in terms of principles of registrar/registry relations since ALAC does not have the resource to do due diligence. V Scartezini said there should be a fast-track between ALAC and the Council for these individual cases to be addressed to the Council staff who would do a formal due diligence. A Greenberg said there needed to be a liaison to which these issues could be brought, a streamline procedure. The ICANN Board would not intervene for such operational issues at the level of isolate cases. W Seltzer noted that the OnlineNic court issued a default judgment. Default judgment does not indicate that a court evaluated the merits of the case. A Peake suggested that the issue of registrar compliance could be put on the agenda for the ALAC-Board meeting in Mexico. ALAC members will discuss online about the proper conduit. H Ullrich will create a Wiki page with the current registry/registrar relations that will serve as a discussion point at the Mexico meeting. ALAC will arrange a teleconference call with services staff and any other party before the next ALAC meeting. C Landon-Orr and A Greenberg will contact NARALO to clarify ALAC role on this matter. H Ullrich will place the discussion about the role of each structure: RALO’s, ALAC and ALSes on the Mexico Agenda Here's the bottom line: The ALAC has one primary duty under the bylaws -- to bring legitimate user concerns to the attention of the Board... and it isn't happening. Instead, what we get is an "it's not my job" attitude. We get nothing but excuses: "we don't have the resources to do due diligence", or let's send this issue to a WG (while knowing full well that the WG is a black hole where nothing gets done). What we are seeing is issue avoidance rather than an honest effort to bring user concerns to the board. The ALAC was presented with clear and damning evidence of GoDaddy transfer policy violations on a silver platter -- nothing less than an actual recording of the very words of CEO Bob Parsons discussing the violations during his own radio show... and yet the ALAC remains unwilling to honor the bylaws by advising the board of these concerns. The ALAC is continuing to prove that it is an institution so totally dysfunctional that no amount of corrective measures can repair it -- it's long past time to give this body a proper burial. --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Thompson, Darlene <DThompson@GOV.NU.CA> wrote:
From: Thompson, Darlene <DThompson@GOV.NU.CA> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again To: "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 1:42 PM I haven't read or listened to the minutes from the ALAC meeting. Was this brought forward to ALAC? If so, what WAS the outcome from it?
Thank you to anybody who answers!
D
Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca
-----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:54 PM To: NA Discuss Subject: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again
Last month we discussed the OnlineNic situation.
From the minutes: "This is an ICANN accredited registrar that was convicted of cyber-squatting. ICANN should de-register them. Danny would like our rep at the ALAC meeting tomorrow to forward the view that appropriate enforcement action must be taken. Beau has seconded that. All in agreement."
Of course, to date, the ALAC has done nothing to specifically address the NARALO concern regarding OnlineNic's accreditation status. No surprise there as the ALAC is as close to useless as one could imagine.
Now we get yet another report that OnlineNic has been hit with yet another lawsuit (fourth one by my count) for trademark infringement -- see http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=43567
One has to wonder how many more lawsuits it will take before ICANN recognizes that it has a very bad apple that must be removed from the barrel.
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .icann.org
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica...
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Danny's assessment that follows Darlene's note correct. I would have responded to that, but deleted it by accident. Evan had asked that I post an e-mail to keep NA RALO up to date on the results of this ALAC meeting. After the meeting, I sent Evan a note saying it would be better to follow up by phone, because I was feeling pretty negative about what was said. What with the summit and everything, that kind of fell through the cracks. Bottom line I got from the ALAC corresponds to what Danny wrote. The ALAC excom, it would seem, does not view contract compliance and individual user complaints about registrar malfeasance to be in its mandate. I think this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed, at the summit or elsewhere, because it doesn't make sense to me. Note also that with staff's help, we have put together a notice of intent to form a consumer constituency. They will probably copy CAUCE, Knujon and others for feedback on it if they have not already done so. There is language in that NOI that basically says such a constituency is needed because ALAC's worldwide scope is so broad that there needs to be a more direct avenue to the GNSO/board/etc. for consumer concerns. The consumer constituency will not, for instance, take up issues such as international IDNs, ipv4-6 transition, the structure of ALAC and its various reviews, etc. ________________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Thompson, Darlene [DThompson@GOV.NU.CA] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:42 PM To: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again I haven't read or listened to the minutes from the ALAC meeting. Was this brought forward to ALAC? If so, what WAS the outcome from it? Thank you to anybody who answers! D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:54 PM To: NA Discuss Subject: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again Last month we discussed the OnlineNic situation.
From the minutes: "This is an ICANN accredited registrar that was convicted of cyber-squatting. ICANN should de-register them. Danny would like our rep at the ALAC meeting tomorrow to forward the view that appropriate enforcement action must be taken. Beau has seconded that. All in agreement."
Of course, to date, the ALAC has done nothing to specifically address the NARALO concern regarding OnlineNic's accreditation status. No surprise there as the ALAC is as close to useless as one could imagine. Now we get yet another report that OnlineNic has been hit with yet another lawsuit (fourth one by my count) for trademark infringement -- see http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=43567 One has to wonder how many more lawsuits it will take before ICANN recognizes that it has a very bad apple that must be removed from the barrel. ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .icann.org Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica... Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ *** Scanned ** This e-mail message is intended only for the designated recipient(s) named above. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, retain, copy, redistribute or use this e-mail or any attachment for any purpose, or disclose all or any part of its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments from your computer system.
Brendler, Beau wrote:
Evan had asked that I post an e-mail to keep NA RALO up to date on the results of this ALAC meeting. After the meeting, I sent Evan a note saying it would be better to follow up by phone, because I was feeling pretty negative about what was said. What with the summit and everything, that kind of fell through the cracks.
Partly that, partly that I'd hoped you might cheer up. I've had other private conversations with people here who are either in or near "aw, screw it all" mode; this is Not Good. All the outreach we can possibly do is of no value if people get utterly demoralized once they get here.
Bottom line I got from the ALAC corresponds to what Danny wrote. The ALAC excom, it would seem, does not view contract compliance and individual user complaints about registrar malfeasance to be in its mandate. I think this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed, at the summit or elsewhere, because it doesn't make sense to me.
It is indeed a serious problem. We keep being told that ALAC has an unlimited mandate. Just two days ago, in a response to Danny's proposal that NARALO just move to the GNSO, Nick stated: "At-Large's remit is much larger than any GNSO constituency, as the GNSO only relates to generic TLDs, and not addressing policy, country code TLDs, etc." What's the point of the larger remit if we refuse to engage? Now... it is a legitimate reply that At-Large has neither the resources nor processes to act on individual consumer complaints. However, we ABSOLUTELY have the mandate to ensure that ICANN's processes to do so are fair and expedient, and that patterns of abuse (of registrants or Internet end-users) are identified and acted upon. IMO our role of oversight there is at least as important as our participation in the rollout of new TLDs. Of course, there is the awful side-issue that the ExecComm still lives. But you need to confront that publicly on the global ALAC list -- I can help but you're the one who experienced it firsthand.
Note also that with staff's help, we have put together a notice of intent to form a consumer constituency. They will probably copy CAUCE, Knujon and others for feedback on it if they have not already done so. I have always had a nagging problem identifying what is supposed to differentiate the composition of a "consumer constituency" from that of At-Large itself. Do ISOC chapters not consider themselves protectors of consumer/registrant rights? (though operating a registry does provide something of a conflict :-) ) What about ALSs such as my own, who got involved in At-Large to look out for issues relevant to our own members who are both registrants and Internet users?
In other words, I am concerned about the rules of exclusion for the GNSO consumer constituency.
There is language in that NOI that basically says such a constituency is needed because ALAC's worldwide scope is so broad that there needs to be a more direct avenue to the GNSO/board/etc. for consumer concerns. At a GNSO level, I can totally see the point. NCUC has seen itself as the protector of the user interest there but has been utterly ineffective at it, single-handedly trying to counter all of the commercial interests. However, when you start talking about a mandate beyond GNSO (the "board/etc" part), you are basically reinventing the wheel. At-Large was supposed to put forward consumer concerns. If that is not happening then promote the fixing of ALAC or (as a worst case) induge Danny -- dissolve ALAC and start over.
The consumer constituency will not, for instance, take up issues such as international IDNs, ipv4-6 transition, the structure of ALAC and its various reviews, etc.
Have no delusion that it will not, eventually, get caught up in its own structural issues and reviews. And I would argue that the international IDNs is most certainly a consumer issue outside of English speaking countries. So unless the consumer constituency is to be limited the the USA and the Commonwealth, I suggest you may be a bit hasty on setting the limits of the CC's mandate or the structure of its leadership. In other words, a CC *could* easily get as bogged down in structure and mandate definition as ALAC; its only initial advantage is the absense of ALAC's NomComm-injected virus. (And yes, I have come back to the POV that the NomComm is absolutely a destabilizing force within ALAC -- Alan excepted). - Evan
see below ________________________________________ From: Evan Leibovitch [evan@telly.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:58 AM To: Brendler, Beau Cc: Thompson, Darlene; NA Discuss Subject: GNSO consumer constituency (was Re: [NA-Discuss] OnlineNic, again) Brendler, Beau wrote: Evan had asked that I post an e-mail to keep NA RALO up to date on the results of this ALAC meeting. After the meeting, I sent Evan a note saying it would be better to follow up by phone, because I was feeling pretty negative about what was said. What with the summit and everything, that kind of fell through the cracks. Partly that, partly that I'd hoped you might cheer up. I've had other private conversations with people here who are either in or near "aw, screw it all" mode; this is Not Good. All the outreach we can possibly do is of no value if people get utterly demoralized once they get here. Bottom line I got from the ALAC corresponds to what Danny wrote. The ALAC excom, it would seem, does not view contract compliance and individual user complaints about registrar malfeasance to be in its mandate. I think this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed, at the summit or elsewhere, because it doesn't make sense to me. It is indeed a serious problem. We keep being told that ALAC has an unlimited mandate. Just two days ago, in a response to Danny's proposal that NARALO just move to the GNSO, Nick stated: "At-Large's remit is much larger than any GNSO constituency, as the GNSO only relates to generic TLDs, and not addressing policy, country code TLDs, etc." What's the point of the larger remit if we refuse to engage? Now... it is a legitimate reply that At-Large has neither the resources nor processes to act on individual consumer complaints.
I think this was the crux of the reasoning given -- lack of resources. Though there did also seem to be a lack of desire as well.
However, we ABSOLUTELY have the mandate to ensure that ICANN's processes to do so are fair and expedient, and that patterns of abuse (of registrants or Internet end-users) are identified and acted upon. IMO our role of oversight there is at least as important as our participation in the rollout of new TLDs.
agreed
Of course, there is the awful side-issue that the ExecComm still lives. But you need to confront that publicly on the global ALAC list -- I can help but you're the one who experienced it firsthand.
Adam Peake has proposed some language that would seek to dissolve and possibly replace. But I don't know where that stands. We need to bring this issue up in Mexico City.
Note also that with staff's help, we have put together a notice of intent to form a consumer constituency. They will probably copy CAUCE, Knujon and others for feedback on it if they have not already done so. I have always had a nagging problem identifying what is supposed to differentiate the composition of a "consumer constituency" from that of At-Large itself. Do ISOC chapters not consider themselves protectors of consumer/registrant rights? (though operating a registry does provide something of a conflict :-) ) What about ALSs such as my own, who got involved in At-Large to look out for issues relevant to our own members who are both registrants and Internet users? In other words, I am concerned about the rules of exclusion for the GNSO consumer constituency.
>The only rule of exclusion in the draft charter is basically conflict of interest -- no taking money from corporations, especially those who have involvement in the ICANN universe. So lobby groups like CADNA would not be eligible.
There is language in that NOI that basically says such a constituency is needed because ALAC's worldwide scope is so broad that there needs to be a more direct avenue to the GNSO/board/etc. for consumer concerns. At a GNSO level, I can totally see the point. NCUC has seen itself as the protector of the user interest there but has been utterly ineffective at it, single-handedly trying to counter all of the commercial interests. However, when you start talking about a mandate beyond GNSO (the "board/etc" part), you are basically reinventing the wheel. At-Large was supposed to put forward consumer concerns. If that is not happening then promote the fixing of ALAC or (as a worst case) induge Danny -- dissolve ALAC and start over.
>>Dissolving ALAC is a pipe dream at the moment, in my opinion. For reasons happy to discuss off list.
The consumer constituency will not, for instance, take up issues such as international IDNs, ipv4-6 transition, the structure of ALAC and its various reviews, etc. Have no delusion that it will not, eventually, get caught up in its own structural issues and reviews. And I would argue that the international IDNs is most certainly a consumer issue outside of English speaking countries. So unless the consumer constituency is to be limited the the USA and the Commonwealth, I suggest you may be a bit hasty on setting the limits of the CC's mandate or the structure of its leadership.
The ALAC is a perfectly fine (and, historically, actually effective) forum for IDN issues. Any issue that takes too long to explain to a consumer group with scarce resources is going to take a back seat in their internal agenda to things like providing people with clean water and safe food.
In other words, a CC *could* easily get as bogged down in structure and mandate definition as ALAC; its only initial advantage is the absense of ALAC's NomComm-injected virus. (And yes, I have come back to the POV that the NomComm is absolutely a destabilizing force within ALAC -- Alan excepted). - Evan *** Scanned ** This e-mail message is intended only for the designated recipient(s) named above. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, retain, copy, redistribute or use this e-mail or any attachment for any purpose, or disclose all or any part of its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments from your computer system.
participants (4)
-
Brendler, Beau -
Danny Younger -
Evan Leibovitch -
Thompson, Darlene