Re: [NA-Discuss] [Fwd: [ALAC-Internal] FW: Call for Comments on GNSO Domain Tasting Motion ... ACTION Required for RALO's and ALS input]
Dominik and all, Try to remember that registrars do not manage ccTLD's or TLD's of any sort, registries do. Secondly, the AGP can be an aid in managing credit card transactions for registrars as it does buy them some time to research a suspicious transaction. What the AGP also allows for unfortunately, is Domain Name Tasting and Warehousing via speculation. These are not healthy activities but do offer a skewed and new market for Domain Names which depending on which side of the issue one might be, is also less than healthy for ecommerce in general as it generates a significant lack of confidance in the ecommerce broad market as well as provides a haven for fraud's of many other sorts such as phishing, Domain Name 'ghosting', and huge amounts of spam. -----Original Message-----
From: Dominik Filipp <dominik.filipp@dsoft.sk> Sent: May 6, 2008 9:28 AM To: na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: [NA-Discuss] [Fwd: [ALAC-Internal] FW: Call for Comments on GNSO Domain Tasting Motion ... ACTION Required for RALO's and ALS input]
Danny,
I do not think this is necessary. Managing credit card frauds is a technical aspect other businesses are facing and have to be dealing with daily. There are scenarios and/or case-studies available on the Internet describing how to minimize such threat. Just google 'credit + card + fraud' and you'll get many interesting pages addressing this in detail.
The simplest solution would be to ask the registrars/registries running non-AGP based ccTLDs. In fact, most registrars run such ccTLDs so they already KNOW how to manage it. I do not see a reason to handle this for them, especially when we are not asked to do that. Furthermore, every registrar might differ in expectations of how such a mechanism should work and suit their needs.
Or, we could consider the suggestions in the first paragraph the alternative and suitable way.
Dominik
Danny Younger wrote:
Let's be clear about something... the Registrar Constituency's primary argument in favor of retaining the AGP is for its use as a device within which credit card fraud may be managed. At the very least, if we will be arguing to eliminate the AGP, we should be offering up an alternative and suitable way to mitigate Registrar fraud concerns if we hope to arrive at a consensus-based solution.
The only way that I can think of having this accomplished is via new language in a Credits Section within the Service Level Agreement that is part of the relevant Registry-Registrar Agreement -- see for example http://www.verisign.com/static/002136.pdf
This, of course, will require cooperation from the Registries who may not be prone to re-drafting their agreements.
Does anyone else that is advocating AGP elimination have any concrete suggestions to deal with the fraud concerns that can be put on the table?
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Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Jeff, Registrars deal with ccTLDs in terms of ordering the names of such ccTLDs via credit card system. In such a case the AGP cannot be an aid in managing credit card transactions simply because it is not applicable. And nothing happens... Similarly all other objections listed by registrars make no sense in such cases. And nothing happens... That is what I am talking about. Dominik -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:36 AM To: Dominik Filipp; na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] [Fwd: [ALAC-Internal] FW: Call for Comments on GNSO Domain Tasting Motion ... ACTION Required for RALO's and ALS input] Dominik and all, Try to remember that registrars do not manage ccTLD's or TLD's of any sort, registries do. Secondly, the AGP can be an aid in managing credit card transactions for registrars as it does buy them some time to research a suspicious transaction. What the AGP also allows for unfortunately, is Domain Name Tasting and Warehousing via speculation. These are not healthy activities but do offer a skewed and new market for Domain Names which depending on which side of the issue one might be, is also less than healthy for ecommerce in general as it generates a significant lack of confidance in the ecommerce broad market as well as provides a haven for fraud's of many other sorts such as phishing, Domain Name 'ghosting', and huge amounts of spam. -----Original Message-----
From: Dominik Filipp <dominik.filipp@dsoft.sk> Sent: May 6, 2008 9:28 AM To: na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: [NA-Discuss] [Fwd: [ALAC-Internal] FW: Call for Comments on GNSO Domain Tasting Motion ... ACTION Required for RALO's and ALS input]
Danny,
I do not think this is necessary. Managing credit card frauds is a technical aspect other businesses are facing and have to be dealing with daily. There are scenarios and/or case-studies available on the Internet describing how to minimize such threat. Just google 'credit + card + fraud' and you'll get many interesting pages addressing this in detail.
The simplest solution would be to ask the registrars/registries running
non-AGP based ccTLDs. In fact, most registrars run such ccTLDs so they already KNOW how to manage it. I do not see a reason to handle this for
them, especially when we are not asked to do that. Furthermore, every registrar might differ in expectations of how such a mechanism should work and suit their needs.
Or, we could consider the suggestions in the first paragraph the alternative and suitable way.
Dominik
Danny Younger wrote:
Let's be clear about something... the Registrar Constituency's primary
argument in favor of retaining the AGP is for its use as a device within which credit card fraud may be managed. At the very least, if we will be arguing to eliminate the AGP, we should be offering up an alternative and suitable way to mitigate Registrar fraud concerns if we hope to arrive at a consensus-based solution.
The only way that I can think of having this accomplished is via new language in a Credits Section within the Service Level Agreement that is part of the relevant Registry-Registrar Agreement -- see for example http://www.verisign.com/static/002136.pdf
This, of course, will require cooperation from the Registries who may not be prone to re-drafting their agreements.
Does anyone else that is advocating AGP elimination have any concrete suggestions to deal with the fraud concerns that can be put on the table?
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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Dominik Filipp wrote:
Registrars deal with ccTLDs in terms of ordering the names of such ccTLDs via credit card system. In such a case the AGP cannot be an aid in managing credit card transactions simply because it is not applicable. And nothing happens... Similarly all other objections listed by registrars make no sense in such cases. And nothing happens...
Dominik is exactly right. Merchants in every other field need to deal with credit card fraud and accidents, and somehow they manage without needing the retail equivalent of the AGP. To defend the AGP is to assert that ICANN must provide registries with protection from their own poor practises -- pritection that that is not afforded to (and not demanded by) any other online merchants. Such privilege is absolutely unjustified, especially when considering the very real abuse it has encouraged. - Evan
participants (3)
-
Dominik Filipp -
Evan Leibovitch -
Jeffrey A. Williams