Hi all, I have read a number of the emails and watched portions of all three of the recordings done for the UA Day. They are professionally done and content-rich. But I must ask the participants... How effective is your message? It is now 10 years since the UASG was formed, and yet apparently UA Day still has to be done. The message of the last 10 years has been refined but its essence remains unchanged. And one may wonder if there will still be a need for UA Days in 2035. In other emails I have described UA as an "orgy of futility". Here I will attempt to explain myself, and to suggest how the substantial talent involved in UA could more-effectively accomplish its objective. *1. PERSPECTIVE AND PROGRESS* UA is internationalization (abbreviated in geek world as i18n) through the lens of only two facets of the Internet: domain names and email addresses. As the Internet progresses these two functions are declining in importance as the world has discovered other uses that have filled in the accessibility gaps. I spent two years working for UNHCR, bringing Internet connectivity to refugee camps. The ability to connect to others and access the Internet, these days, is now 100% a challenge of physical infrastructure and less of the ability to communicate once connected. Email isn't even known in many environments -- including Gen Z in the west -- bypassed in favour of chat platforms such as WhatsApp and WeChat which support full Unicode. Every phone for sale in the markets of the Dadaab camp came preloaded with Facebook and WhatsApp -- along with SMS-based mobile banking few people needed more, and their language of choice was easily accommodated by the platform (if not the keyboard, but UA isn't about hardware). Sometimes people use a browser, using internet searches rather than typing in URLs. With users being able to perform Internet searches in their local script, does it matter to THEM if the search results go to a URL (often hidden anyways) that looks like digital nonsense? They typed in their search and clicked on the result. They got to where they needed, using the scripts they knew. Exactly what needs fixing? As for email, its current paradigm is understandable if not fully convenient, and really is no different from the paradigm for postal mail which is more than 150 years old. The *contents *of your letter can be in any script you want, but the *address* on the envelope has to be written using a universal script so it can be processed by intermediaries. I'm really not sure that the substantial effort being used to address this will ever bear fruit, especially since email is increasingly limited to formal functions while casual conversations move to chat. It is IMO quite disingenuous -- and a little arrogant -- to assert in 2025 that UA is at all about Internet accessibility. The billions who have access to physical connectivity today are having no problems talking to each other, using every script available in Unicode (including the Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics and the Cherokee Syllabary). They're just not using email or domain names. The main impediment to accessibility is connectivity; were ICANN serious about accessibility issues it would be contributing to the enhancement of physical infrastructure. *2. WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO?* I have been puzzled for years, wondering who is the intended target audience for the message of UA. All this talent, all this wisdom is being recorded to be seen and acted upon by ... whom? Most Internet users are powerless to affect any of the technical infrastructure solutions necessary to support 8-bit Internet domains and email addresses worldwide. Awareness might be good, but no actual ability to enable UA exists amongst the masses. It strikes me that there are only four entities who matter: Google, Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo, the companies who (vastly) dominate email. Convince them through direct contact and the problem is solved thanks to their combined clout. This is a task that requires subtle diplomacy and lobbying, not public sessions broadcast to the void. (I find it ironic that "public" sessions to advance UA are password-protected -- why?) Equally intriguing by this messaging is the path NOT taken; International Standards. Why has ICANN never (to my knowledge) advanced UA at the ISO? That body is ALL ABOUT international consistency. Its processes are slow and bureaucratic, but had a UA initiative started there in 2015 (supported by the GAC) it might have been implemented as a standard by now. Had ICANN gone the path of IETF the change -- and the standard -- would have come even quicker. It may be too late to start that now. Much happens at Internet (and now AI) speed. By the time the ISO might create an IDN standard, email and domain names may have become legacy. The strategic blunder of not going the standards and quiet diplomacy path at the start may have doomed UA, in which case this year's UA day will be not more effective than last year's and no less effective than next year's. It's your volunteer time. Spend it wisely. None of us is getting younger. -- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
Hi Evan and other colleagues, Thanks for your thought-provoking perspective. I agree that UA must evolve strategically, especially as digital habits shift. My recent message focused on how cultural differences impact the way UA is received and understood—what resonates in one region may not in another. While I see your point on targeting the tech giants and standards bodies, I believe that community awareness still has value—especially when tailored with cultural context in mind. It’s not either/or—it’s both technical and human strategies that will move us forward. Just my 2 cents. Best, Mohibul On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 12:08 PM Evan Leibovitch via NA-Discuss < na-discuss@icann.org> wrote:
Hi all,
I have read a number of the emails and watched portions of all three of the recordings done for the UA Day. They are professionally done and content-rich.
But I must ask the participants... How effective is your message? It is now 10 years since the UASG was formed, and yet apparently UA Day still has to be done. The message of the last 10 years has been refined but its essence remains unchanged. And one may wonder if there will still be a need for UA Days in 2035.
In other emails I have described UA as an "orgy of futility". Here I will attempt to explain myself, and to suggest how the substantial talent involved in UA could more-effectively accomplish its objective.
*1. PERSPECTIVE AND PROGRESS*
UA is internationalization (abbreviated in geek world as i18n) through the lens of only two facets of the Internet: domain names and email addresses. As the Internet progresses these two functions are declining in importance as the world has discovered other uses that have filled in the accessibility gaps.
I spent two years working for UNHCR, bringing Internet connectivity to refugee camps. The ability to connect to others and access the Internet, these days, is now 100% a challenge of physical infrastructure and less of the ability to communicate once connected. Email isn't even known in many environments -- including Gen Z in the west -- bypassed in favour of chat platforms such as WhatsApp and WeChat which support full Unicode. Every phone for sale in the markets of the Dadaab camp came preloaded with Facebook and WhatsApp -- along with SMS-based mobile banking few people needed more, and their language of choice was easily accommodated by the platform (if not the keyboard, but UA isn't about hardware). Sometimes people use a browser, using internet searches rather than typing in URLs.
With users being able to perform Internet searches in their local script, does it matter to THEM if the search results go to a URL (often hidden anyways) that looks like digital nonsense? They typed in their search and clicked on the result. They got to where they needed, using the scripts they knew. Exactly what needs fixing?
As for email, its current paradigm is understandable if not fully convenient, and really is no different from the paradigm for postal mail which is more than 150 years old. The *contents *of your letter can be in any script you want, but the *address* on the envelope has to be written using a universal script so it can be processed by intermediaries. I'm really not sure that the substantial effort being used to address this will ever bear fruit, especially since email is increasingly limited to formal functions while casual conversations move to chat.
It is IMO quite disingenuous -- and a little arrogant -- to assert in 2025 that UA is at all about Internet accessibility. The billions who have access to physical connectivity today are having no problems talking to each other, using every script available in Unicode (including the Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics and the Cherokee Syllabary). They're just not using email or domain names.
The main impediment to accessibility is connectivity; were ICANN serious about accessibility issues it would be contributing to the enhancement of physical infrastructure.
*2. WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO?*
I have been puzzled for years, wondering who is the intended target audience for the message of UA. All this talent, all this wisdom is being recorded to be seen and acted upon by ... whom?
Most Internet users are powerless to affect any of the technical infrastructure solutions necessary to support 8-bit Internet domains and email addresses worldwide. Awareness might be good, but no actual ability to enable UA exists amongst the masses.
It strikes me that there are only four entities who matter: Google, Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo, the companies who (vastly) dominate email. Convince them through direct contact and the problem is solved thanks to their combined clout. This is a task that requires subtle diplomacy and lobbying, not public sessions broadcast to the void. (I find it ironic that "public" sessions to advance UA are password-protected -- why?)
Equally intriguing by this messaging is the path NOT taken; International Standards. Why has ICANN never (to my knowledge) advanced UA at the ISO? That body is ALL ABOUT international consistency. Its processes are slow and bureaucratic, but had a UA initiative started there in 2015 (supported by the GAC) it might have been implemented as a standard by now. Had ICANN gone the path of IETF the change -- and the standard -- would have come even quicker.
It may be too late to start that now. Much happens at Internet (and now AI) speed. By the time the ISO might create an IDN standard, email and domain names may have become legacy. The strategic blunder of not going the standards and quiet diplomacy path at the start may have doomed UA, in which case this year's UA day will be not more effective than last year's and no less effective than next year's.
It's your volunteer time. Spend it wisely. None of us is getting younger.
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 ------ NA-Discuss mailing list -- na-discuss@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to na-discuss-leave@icann.org
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Hi Mohibul, Thanks for the response. On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 2:47 PM Mohibul Mahmud <mohibul.mahmud@gmail.com> wrote:
While I see your point on targeting the tech giants and standards bodies, I believe that community awareness still has value—especially when tailored with cultural context in mind.
This comment raises questions about its underlying assumptions: 1. What is the objective of UA? Raising awareness or effecting a technical change of infrastructure? If it's to effect change, the current tactics are doomed to fail because, as I indicated, they're not reaching those who are capable of actually changing. If it's raising awareness, launching a number of videos, hidden on the ICANN website and password-protected, is not what I would call a way to reach the masses. Spending all this effort on a message and then locking it away like this guarantees you won't reach much of an audience. ICANN has a YouTube channel <https://www.youtube.com/@ICANNnews>, why hasn't it been offered to UA Day? That would strike me as the LEAST that could be done, considering all the time invested. (I would also suggest that raising public awareness means videos that are less than two hours long...) 2. Community awareness ... about exactly what? I'm not sure this has been well thought out. Beyond application to Internet resources, engaging in amateur anthropology seems out of scope. About what is the public unaware that UA exists to address? That domain names and email addresses don't yet work everywhere in every script? Why should people care if they're fully capable, currently using the Internet in every script available, to reach people and organizations of their choice? Chat systems that use phone numbers as personal identifiers don't touch domains or email addresses at all. So part of the job of awareness demands explaining why people should even care. 3. And don't forget that you're promoting what can justifiably be seen as a massive conflict of interest. All of ICANN's revenue comes from rental of domain names, so the proliferation of IDNs is in ICANN's financial interest. Would ICANN care at all about things like international cultural sensitivity if it did not seek to expand revenue from non-Latin-script TLDs? If UA is seen as a just means to enable ICANN and its partners to sell more domains, that will certainly impede ... acceptance. If you don't believe this to be the case, that has to be part of the message. Cheers, Evan
Hi Evan, Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and raise these important questions. I appreciate your candor and the critical lens through which you’re approaching the challenges around Universal Acceptance. You bring up valid concerns—especially around messaging clarity, the need for impactful outreach beyond just awareness-building, and the importance of transparency when it comes to ICANN’s role. While I agree that the landscape is evolving and users today engage with the Internet in ways that go far beyond domain names and email, I still believe that fostering cultural context in communication can play a supporting role—especially in regions where local script representation still intersects with identity and inclusion. That said, your perspective on focusing energy toward infrastructure-level players and more strategic standards bodies is well taken. Perhaps there’s room to find balance—where broader community awareness supports (but doesn’t replace) deeper technical advocacy efforts. Thanks again for adding to the dialogue. It’s a conversation worth having. Best regards, Mohibul On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 3:34 PM Evan Leibovitch <evanleibovitch@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mohibul,
Thanks for the response.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 2:47 PM Mohibul Mahmud <mohibul.mahmud@gmail.com> wrote:
While I see your point on targeting the tech giants and standards bodies, I believe that community awareness still has value—especially when tailored with cultural context in mind.
This comment raises questions about its underlying assumptions:
1. What is the objective of UA? Raising awareness or effecting a technical change of infrastructure? If it's to effect change, the current tactics are doomed to fail because, as I indicated, they're not reaching those who are capable of actually changing. If it's raising awareness, launching a number of videos, hidden on the ICANN website and password-protected, is not what I would call a way to reach the masses. Spending all this effort on a message and then locking it away like this guarantees you won't reach much of an audience. ICANN has a YouTube channel <https://www.youtube.com/@ICANNnews>, why hasn't it been offered to UA Day? That would strike me as the LEAST that could be done, considering all the time invested. (I would also suggest that raising public awareness means videos that are less than two hours long...)
2. Community awareness ... about exactly what? I'm not sure this has been well thought out. Beyond application to Internet resources, engaging in amateur anthropology seems out of scope. About what is the public unaware that UA exists to address? That domain names and email addresses don't yet work everywhere in every script? Why should people care if they're fully capable, currently using the Internet in every script available, to reach people and organizations of their choice? Chat systems that use phone numbers as personal identifiers don't touch domains or email addresses at all. So part of the job of awareness demands explaining why people should even care.
3. And don't forget that you're promoting what can justifiably be seen as a massive conflict of interest. All of ICANN's revenue comes from rental of domain names, so the proliferation of IDNs is in ICANN's financial interest. Would ICANN care at all about things like international cultural sensitivity if it did not seek to expand revenue from non-Latin-script TLDs? If UA is seen as a just means to enable ICANN and its partners to sell more domains, that will certainly impede ... acceptance. If you don't believe this to be the case, that has to be part of the message.
Cheers,
Evan
participants (2)
-
Evan Leibovitch -
Mohibul Mahmud