Ross and all, I respectfully in part disagree with the tenor and tone of your response to Dereks valid concern. He indeed may or should clarify his concern as it is not the privacy of PII data contained in a Whois record that is the acctual problem, but rather the lack of accuracy of non-pii Whois data in a whois record that is essential to be corrected and overseen in an active and expediant manner so that correction of such can be effected appropriately and with all due haste. Secondly, "Abuse" Email contact addresses need to be made manditory in all Whois records, which is clearly not the case today and hasn't been for a very long time now (years), as is phone contact information for the Admin Email contact. -----Original Message-----

From: Ross Rader <ross@tucows.com> Sent: May 3, 2008 12:32 PM To: "derek@aa419.org" <derek@aa419.org> Cc: "alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access

Whois privacy for .ca names is nothing new. Implementation of this policy will simply standardize it across the namespace. There's simply no basis for your fear mongering.

--- Warm regards,

-Ross

Sent from my iPhone using my DomainDirect.com personalized mobile email. Ask me how it works!

On 3-May-08, at 2:47 PM, Derek Smythe <derek@aa419.org> wrote:

...

Sadly I have to agree with John.

Why, doesn't cxeibbltd.com just host a lovely domain, privacy protected and all!

That is until you search on the telephone number given on the contact page, 1-800-882-4036 and start digging deeper.

However, all is not bad. The privacy provider for the mentioned domain will most likely expose whois since they have a zero fraud tolerance and the Registrar as will cancel it.

There is a lesson to learn here: Checks and balances.

Many of these scammers' domains pass our hands regularly, I would like to say I live in the real world of the Internet.

However, what is CIRA's policy upon encountering a similar situation? If the responses are one of the stock standard: - DRP, who will pay for the procedures for all those lovely scam, spam, phish domains? - Law Enforcement, I can guarantee you once again the process will be flawed unless the RCP rapidly expands their forces overnight. - Court Order, which court in which country? - Will the company vs private registrant rule be enforced?

http://www.cira.ca/en/documents/2007/PRP-rant-agreementv1.7.pdf How do you promptly resolve an issue? Evidence of residence faxed is as far as your nearest DTP package. I can show you many ID's and employee cards published by all but the logos of the institutions they claim to represent. Snail mail for a phishing domain?

To spice up the mix, we just add a large known contingent of scammers and carders known to live on the Toronto area, some of who have made the headlines already recently.

I can show list upon list of registrants that turned out to be the same person, all determined by analyzing whois details. This information has been used to protect the all internet users time and again. Who will do this at CIRA where full whois info is not visible? How will they collaborate with other parties?

Pardon me if I sound cynical, but I have seen too many abuse reports ignored and too many ordinary internet users suffer the consequences.

I guess history will tell.

Regards

Derek

John Levine wrote:

...

...

kudos to CIRA for not only developing a privacy friendly WHOIS policy - but also implementing it.

Yes indeed. Every crook, scammer, phisher, and fraudster from St Johns to Victoria really appreciates it.

R's, John

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