FW: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
See below. Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders, I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process. This letter can be found on: http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom... There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included. If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter. Kind regards, Olivier -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
Hi, I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea. I think we should concentrate on the issues related to supporting less well off groups getting an application for drastically reduced fees and with support than on a plan that predominantly supports businesses who want to get multiple TLDs on the cheap so that they can corner the raw resources of less developed economies - (TLDs in local languages and scripts) based on a single ASCII application. I also think its claim that the expenses for ICANN would be the same is un substantiated. So I do not have a vote, but I do hope you do not sign on to this letter. a. On 20 May 2011, at 09:59, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
See below.
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders,
I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process.
This letter can be found on: http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom...
There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included.
If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com
Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter.
Kind regards,
Olivier
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat
Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
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Hey Avri, I am not commenting on the substance of your e-mail where you raise some interesting points for discussion, I just wish to correct one thing. You DO have the right to vote as an individual. They are accepting both individual and ALS opinions on this so feel free to fire away with your opinions! D Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Avri Doria [avri@ella.com] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:11 AM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] FW: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process Hi, I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea. I think we should concentrate on the issues related to supporting less well off groups getting an application for drastically reduced fees and with support than on a plan that predominantly supports businesses who want to get multiple TLDs on the cheap so that they can corner the raw resources of less developed economies - (TLDs in local languages and scripts) based on a single ASCII application. I also think its claim that the expenses for ICANN would be the same is un substantiated. So I do not have a vote, but I do hope you do not sign on to this letter. a. On 20 May 2011, at 09:59, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
See below.
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders,
I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process.
This letter can be found on: http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom...
There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included.
If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com
Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter.
Kind regards,
Olivier
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat
Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea.
I agree with Avri. None of the arguments about the benefits of non-ASCII scripts for marginal groups make sense if you still have to have $200K in hand to apply. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
So do I ! Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org Le 2011-05-20 21:40, John R. Levine a écrit :
I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea. I agree with Avri. None of the arguments about the benefits of non-ASCII scripts for marginal groups make sense if you still have to have $200K in hand to apply.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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Hi Avri, I'm not clear how supporting the letter detracts from support for the other worthy issues you mention. But I can see how it would perhaps give a cost advantage for the same string to a big pockets international multi domain applicant over a local applicant (at least sans JAS), or at least pre-empt same. There could be an objection process. I note that it has support from notable members of both At-Large and NCUC. I imagine the rationale is that giving non-ascii domains this kind of help will in turn boost the whole multi-script Internet in the wider public good. I understand your point to be just extend opportunites for corporate string grabbing, and the marketing thereof, while possibly depriving local communities of ownership of those strings as valid, but wonder if it trumps the above? I think there may be specific examples of multi-script communities where it might make a lot of sense. j On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Avri Doria <avri@ella.com> wrote:
Hi,
I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea.
I think we should concentrate on the issues related to supporting less well off groups getting an application for drastically reduced fees and with support than on a plan that predominantly supports businesses who want to get multiple TLDs on the cheap so that they can corner the raw resources of less developed economies - (TLDs in local languages and scripts) based on a single ASCII application.
I also think its claim that the expenses for ICANN would be the same is un substantiated.
So I do not have a vote, but I do hope you do not sign on to this letter.
a.
On 20 May 2011, at 09:59, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
See below.
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders,
I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process.
This letter can be found on:
http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom...
There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included.
If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com
Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter.
Kind regards,
Olivier
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat
Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -
Hi Joly, I guess what I meant by detracting from the other efforts, it was becoming an item of discussion in JAS and as such I felt it was a distraction from the primary goal. I also think it is trying to leverage its appeal by relating itself to the efforts that have Board/GAC support such as Support for Applicants from developing populations. I think this linkage is also a detraction. I understand that there are multiple notables who support this idea. I apologize for yet feeling it is a bad idea. I do my best to follow the lead of notables whenever I can. Yes, there can be some advantage in a few cases where multiple scripts might be advantageous to Internet users and the non commercial communities, but I think the string grab by those who can afford multiple string easily is just a greater disadvantage, and one to be avoided if at all possible. I think that at this point, in this round, it is a possibility that should be set aside for discussion on the next round where there is time to really discuss the issue, its impacts and create a policy that mitigates any negative effects. For now, I continue to advise against it. a. On 29 May 2011, at 16:29, Joly MacFie wrote:
Hi Avri,
I'm not clear how supporting the letter detracts from support for the other worthy issues you mention. But I can see how it would perhaps give a cost advantage for the same string to a big pockets international multi domain applicant over a local applicant (at least sans JAS), or at least pre-empt same. There could be an objection process.
I note that it has support from notable members of both At-Large and NCUC. I imagine the rationale is that giving non-ascii domains this kind of help will in turn boost the whole multi-script Internet in the wider public good.
I understand your point to be just extend opportunites for corporate string grabbing, and the marketing thereof, while possibly depriving local communities of ownership of those strings as valid, but wonder if it trumps the above?
I think there may be specific examples of multi-script communities where it might make a lot of sense.
j
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Avri Doria <avri@ella.com> wrote: Hi,
I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea.
I think we should concentrate on the issues related to supporting less well off groups getting an application for drastically reduced fees and with support than on a plan that predominantly supports businesses who want to get multiple TLDs on the cheap so that they can corner the raw resources of less developed economies - (TLDs in local languages and scripts) based on a single ASCII application.
I also think its claim that the expenses for ICANN would be the same is un substantiated.
So I do not have a vote, but I do hope you do not sign on to this letter.
a.
On 20 May 2011, at 09:59, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
See below.
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders,
I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process.
This letter can be found on: http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom...
There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included.
If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com
Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter.
Kind regards,
Olivier
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat
Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -
+1 This seems like an effort to put a stake in all the high grounds. On 5/29/2011 5:49 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi Joly,
I guess what I meant by detracting from the other efforts, it was becoming an item of discussion in JAS and as such I felt it was a distraction from the primary goal. I also think it is trying to leverage its appeal by relating itself to the efforts that have Board/GAC support such as Support for Applicants from developing populations. I think this linkage is also a detraction.
I understand that there are multiple notables who support this idea. I apologize for yet feeling it is a bad idea. I do my best to follow the lead of notables whenever I can.
Yes, there can be some advantage in a few cases where multiple scripts might be advantageous to Internet users and the non commercial communities, but I think the string grab by those who can afford multiple string easily is just a greater disadvantage, and one to be avoided if at all possible. I think that at this point, in this round, it is a possibility that should be set aside for discussion on the next round where there is time to really discuss the issue, its impacts and create a policy that mitigates any negative effects.
For now, I continue to advise against it.
a.
On 29 May 2011, at 16:29, Joly MacFie wrote:
Hi Avri,
I'm not clear how supporting the letter detracts from support for the other worthy issues you mention. But I can see how it would perhaps give a cost advantage for the same string to a big pockets international multi domain applicant over a local applicant (at least sans JAS), or at least pre-empt same. There could be an objection process.
I note that it has support from notable members of both At-Large and NCUC. I imagine the rationale is that giving non-ascii domains this kind of help will in turn boost the whole multi-script Internet in the wider public good.
I understand your point to be just extend opportunites for corporate string grabbing, and the marketing thereof, while possibly depriving local communities of ownership of those strings as valid, but wonder if it trumps the above?
I think there may be specific examples of multi-script communities where it might make a lot of sense.
j
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Avri Doria<avri@ella.com> wrote: Hi,
I am not an ALS rep, and just an individual member of an ALS but I do not think supporting this letter is a good idea.
I think we should concentrate on the issues related to supporting less well off groups getting an application for drastically reduced fees and with support than on a plan that predominantly supports businesses who want to get multiple TLDs on the cheap so that they can corner the raw resources of less developed economies - (TLDs in local languages and scripts) based on a single ASCII application.
I also think its claim that the expenses for ICANN would be the same is un substantiated.
So I do not have a vote, but I do hope you do not sign on to this letter.
a.
On 20 May 2011, at 09:59, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
See below.
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [secretariat-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [ocl@gih.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:42 PM To: ALAC Working List; secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: ron Andruff Subject: [Secretariat] Letter of support for promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in New gTLD Application Process
Dear ALAC members and RALO Leaders,
I have been contacted by Ron Andruff and Marilyn Cade, asking us whether we would like to affix our signatures on a letter to the Board supporting promoting non-English/non-Latinscripts in the New gTLD application process.
This letter can be found on: http://icann.org/en/correspondence/andruff-et-al-to-dengate-thrush-beckstrom...
There has been much individual support from members of the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group as well as some ALAC members who have already signed the letter in their own capacity, myself included.
If you would like to sign this letter in your own, or your ALS's capacity, please email your consent to: randruff@rnapartners.com
Also please feel free to forward this call on your local RALO list, should you think ALSes in your regions might be interested in signing the letter.
Kind regards,
Olivier
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ Secretariat mailing list Secretariat@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/secretariat
Secretariat wiki at: http://st.icann.org/secretariat
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -
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Colleagues, The Joint Application Support Working Group (JAS-WG) has generalized from "script" to "language" to better accommodate the real needs of communities which "code switch" between two or more languages, and possibly the same or a smaller number of scripts, and includes this as a support selection criteria, along with "need" as a criteria, which includes an inability to pay one or more application fees and subsequent application expenses. The JAS-WG has identified applications for underserved languages, and includes this as a criteria, along with "need" as a criteria, which includes an inability to pay a single application fee and subsequent application expenses. Thus, the proposed benefit of a "bundling" of two or more applications by a single applicant for two or more strings would be to those applicants who are not capable of meeting the several criteria for support proposed by the JAS-WG. A non-exhaustive list of applicants not-qualified for support under the JAS-WG proposal at present are: o applications made from highly developed economies, e.g., by Verisign, located in Reston, VA, for a dozen or more representations of the string "com" under one or more linguistic transformation rules, o applications made for trademarks, e.g., by a trademark holder for a set of two or more trademarked strings, o applications made for brands, e.g., by a brand manager for a set of strings used as brands, o applications made by governments, e.g., a government for two or more strings, o etc. There are reasonable grounds to ask that ICANN modify its one-string, one-application model. It fails to conform to the reality that a very substantial population using domain names in Han Script (Chinese) view the distinct characters of the "Simplified Chinese" reform as interchangeable with the associated "Traditional Chinese" characters. It fails to conform to the reality that some applications will share substantive properties with other applications, and regardless of how the competition policy question of whether Verisign should be allowed additional registries, in its own right or as a "technical registry backend services provider" to captive tenants, the utility of expending fee-based resources two, three, or thirty times to determine if Verisign is technically capable of operating a registry is extremely limited. It fails to conform to the reality that registry continuity, like registry escrow, is a service which is "cheaper by the dozen", and any reasonably diverse "pool" of registry operators can provide "continuity service", whether due to regional infrastructure failure such as earthquake or hurricane, war, or ordinary commercial failure, at negligible cost to the unaffected registry operators. There are, quite simply, several sound reasons _for_ bundling, and from a process perspective, the assumption that each application shall be evaluated independently of all others is, as a problem of method, the single least efficient, highest cost, most wasteful, method to adopt. At best all it can tell the evaluator (ICANN) is that two identical applications can both pass AND fail, which is not a very useful result to the applicant in evaluation, or to ICANN as the evaluation process owner. I have on several occasions asked CEO Paul Twomey and Chairman Peter Dengate Thrush, now CEO Rod Beckstrom and Chairman Peter Dengate Thrush, to redefine an application to be for the resources necessary to avoid harm through the promotion of language loss in plural language markets and communities, rather than to be simply a single string. I wish I could relate that I had a reason to suppose that my requests were carefully considered, but I cannot. However, I will not join Ron Andruff, whom I've worked with on several occasions, most recently on the GNSO's Operations Steering Committee (OSC), GNSO Council Operations Procedures Work Team (GCOT), on GNSO Council operations, and respect highly, or the many others, many of whom I've also worked with in the past and respect highly, as the mechanism proposed is both redundant where linguistic necessity exists, and unrestricted where competition policy concerns remain unaddressed. I see no reason to suppose that Verisign has a right to strings that have some association with "com" in scripts other than Latin, nor that it has a right to a lower cost to apply for such a string than any other applicant for the same, or a "confusingly similar" string (in the SWORD algorithmic sense of forming a contention set), which may be making only one application, intending to independently serve the needs of users of that script, and not the shareholders of the Latin script registries, still not transitioned from monopolies to competitive markets. I participate in the Joint Application Support Working Group (JAS-WG). All errors or omissions in the representation of the current draft work product of the JAS-WG, above, are mine. Eric
participants (7)
-
Avri Doria -
Eric Brunner-Williams -
Houle Louis -
John R. Levine -
Joly MacFie -
Thomas Lowenhaupt -
Thompson, Darlene