How is this different from ISOC? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

Hi,

This is from their website:

"UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a member of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented at the Global Alliance for ICT and Development."

Of course, there could be more to it...

--bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote:

...

Hi Garth,

From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. Maybe the DD could be rephrased.

Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org

Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit :

...

Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

From: ICANN At-Large Staff Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

Dear Garth and Darlene,

On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please find the Due Diligence form attached.

We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC review on this application.

According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the regional advice is on 28/11/2012.

We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to third parties.

Regards,

Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, Julia Charvolen

ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC

E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

Hi Alan, Is there a requirement stating that members of an organization must be citizens of the Region at a minumum level to be permitted to be an ALS in that Region? Or is it that some measurement of control must be exercised from within the Region? I can understand the reasoning to have an ALS be part of the Region, but it seems counter intuitive to keep some international organizations from be members of a RALO. In some cases, international can still mean within a particular Region, but in other cases not. thanks, bob On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

Not sure of the relevance of the question - ISOC is not ant ALAS, not have they applied to be. ISOC local chapters which are locally controlled are what we see within At-Large.

Without knowing what percentage of their members are citizens of residents of North America, there is no way to know whether they satisfy the prime ALAS membership criteria.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 06:55 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote:

...

How is this different from ISOC?

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

...

Hi,

This is from their website:

"UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a member of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented

at

...

the Global Alliance for ICT and Development."

Of course, there could be more to it...

--bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote:

...

Hi Garth,

From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. Maybe the DD could be rephrased.

Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org

Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit :

...

Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

From: ICANN At-Large Staff Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

Dear Garth and Darlene,

On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please find the Due Diligence form attached.

We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC review on this application.

According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the regional advice is on 28/11/2012.

We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to third parties.

Regards,

Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, Julia Charvolen

ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC

E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

Hi Alan, Thanks. This sounds quite reasonable, "predominate," vs. an exact number. It does seem to support the idea that a chapter of an organization could still become and ALS, if the chapter had a level of independence from the central control organization. The whole organization would not be joining the RALO. It is not desirable to have an organization join several RALOs through local chapters, so that the central organization could acheieve undue influence. I guess that leaves us with the original question, but with a little more criteria for making an evaluation. --bob On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

Bob, the relevant section of the ICANN Bylaws ( http://www.icann.org/en/about/governance/bylaws#XI -2.4, sub-section i.2) read:

The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region (as defined in Section 5 of Article VI) of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region, by others.

The section of our ALS Criteria ( http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/framework.htm) is syntactically cleaner, but essentially the same:

Be constituted so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region.

So the issue is who controls the ALS. At first glance, this organization seems to have much merit, but it is far less clear that the meet the actual criteria. If they had a North American "chapter", that would likely qualify. Or if due to their support from Arizona and Kitchener their membership just happens to be more than 50% local.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 08:30 PM, Bob Bruen wrote: Hi Alan,

Is there a requirement stating that members of an organization must be citizens of the Region at a minumum level to be permitted to be an ALS in that Region?

Or is it that some measurement of control must be exercised from within the Region?

I can understand the reasoning to have an ALS be part of the Region, but it seems counter intuitive to keep some international organizations from be members of a RALO. In some cases, international can still mean within a particular Region, but in other cases not.

              thanks, bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

Not sure of the relevance of the question - ISOC is not ant ALAS, not have they applied to be. ISOC local chapters which are locally controlled are what we see within At-Large.

Without knowing what percentage of their members are citizens of residents of North America, there is no way to know whether they satisfy the prime ALAS membership criteria.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 06:55 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote: How is this different from ISOC? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" > > Hi, > > This is from their website: > > "UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of > Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with > the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), > Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and > other international partners.  Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for > International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently > co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada.  UCP-SARnet is also a member > of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented at > the Global Alliance for ICT and Development." > > Of course, there could be more to it... > >             --bob > > > > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote: > >> Hi Garth, >> >> From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide >> organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... >> At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. >> Maybe the DD could be rephrased. >> >> Louis Houle >> Président >> La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) >> Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org >> >> Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit : >>> Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) >>> University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> From: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM >>> To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene >>> Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant >>> "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> Dear Garth and Darlene, >>> >>> On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from >>> "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please >>> find the Due Diligence form attached. >>> >>> We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in >>> your capacity as  NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC >>> review on this application. >>> >>> According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the >>> regional advice is on 28/11/2012. >>> >>> We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive >>> information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to >>> third parties. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, >>> Julia Charvolen >>> >>> ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC >>> >>> E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>> >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>> ------ >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> > > -- > Dr. Robert Bruen > Cold Rain Labs > http://coldrain.net/bruen > +1.802.579.6288 > ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

Is the organization registered in US? -ed On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:

I'm personally concerned about groups "falling through the cracks", being unable to find any place within At-Large because our various sets of categorization don't suit them. I see this now happening in the GNSO, where an association of cyber-cafés is looking for an appropriate constituency and is being told "you can't get there from here" (everyone is saying that they ought to be accommodated -- somewhere else).

If a potential ALS has a presence in multiple regions, there is IMO nothing wrong with it applying in any of those regions, so long as it understands that it must pick only one. When it comes to conflicted individuals -- who might be a citizen of one region but live or work in more than one -- At-Large has IMO traditionally erred on the side of inclusion and simply said "pick any of the ones that could apply to you, but pick only one."

I believe there are regulations prohibiting a single ALS from being in more than one region at once. And I don't believe that this group has applied for more than one region. This means one of two outcomes, both of which should be accepted:

- They have a predominance of presence in our region

- They have participation in multiple regions, yet choose ours as the one they want to belong to

It may be reasonable, as part of the due diligence, to ask the applicant for a rough geographical breakdown of its membership if that is not provided. And the applicant must be reminded that they can only participate in a single region. Given that, I see no real cause for opposition.

- Evan ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

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What is making this less clear cut is that the applicant seems not a formally registered body, but a collaborative academic project with multiple institutional sponsors/partners. I'm familar with its infrastructure because I work for one of those myself. The two core institutions, the administrative functions and the communications channels are North America based. That's enough for me to support it here. Again, this is not an exact fit for the kind of ALSs envisioned, but I see that as more opportunity than obstacle. - Evan On 26 November 2012 09:41, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com <gbruen@knujon.com>wrote:

Thanks Evan. My ALS has members from all of the world but we are located and registered in the U.S.

When I applied to be an ALS I was asked which region I was going to represent.

If this group applied in multiple regions I think it might be a problem, here I'm not sure there is one.

------------------------------**-------------------- From: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 8:58 AM To: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Cc: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca>; "NA Discuss" < na-discuss@atlarge-lists.**icann.org <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>

Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

I'm personally concerned about groups "falling through the cracks", being

...

unable to find any place within At-Large because our various sets of categorization don't suit them. I see this now happening in the GNSO, where an association of cyber-cafés is looking for an appropriate constituency and is being told "you can't get there from here" (everyone is saying that they ought to be accommodated -- somewhere else).

If a potential ALS has a presence in multiple regions, there is IMO nothing wrong with it applying in any of those regions, so long as it understands that it must pick only one. When it comes to conflicted individuals -- who might be a citizen of one region but live or work in more than one -- At-Large has IMO traditionally erred on the side of inclusion and simply said "pick any of the ones that could apply to you, but pick only one."

I believe there are regulations prohibiting a single ALS from being in more than one region at once. And I don't believe that this group has applied for more than one region. This means one of two outcomes, both of which should be accepted:

- They have a predominance of presence in our region

- They have participation in multiple regions, yet choose ours as the

one they want to belong to

It may be reasonable, as part of the due diligence, to ask the applicant for a rough geographical breakdown of its membership if that is not provided. And the applicant must be reminded that they can only participate in a single region. Given that, I see no real cause for opposition.

- Evan ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.**icann.org <NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.**org/mailman/listinfo/na-**discuss<https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss>

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-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56

I assume when ISOC Canada gets approved we would be applying as a chapter or NARALO ALS membership G On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>wrote:

If we were to take this one to heart (which is not in our current rules), we would take a BIG hit in that many of our ALSs are ISOC Chapters.

The critical wording is "an organization join THROUGH local chapters". In the case of ISOC, I have not seen that happening.

Alan

At 26/11/2012 06:37 AM, Bob Bruen wrote:

...

It is not desirable to have an organization join several RALOs through local chapters, so that the central organization could acheieve undue influence.

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I was simply acknowledging that there might be some evil group that would have a large number of chapters spread around the world, all of which would join local RALOs, but would be crontrolled by that single entity in one Region as part of their efforts to take over the world.

Unless we see individual Catholic parishes or LDS congregations signing up (presumably to exert undue influence over .CATHOLIC and .LDS), I wouldn't worry about it. R's, John

Hi Bob, This is also what I had in mind. How do we make sure that undue influence would not occur? Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org Le 2012-11-26 06:37, Bob Bruen a écrit :

Hi Alan,

Thanks. This sounds quite reasonable, "predominate," vs. an exact number.

It does seem to support the idea that a chapter of an organization could still become and ALS, if the chapter had a level of independence from the central control organization. The whole organization would not be joining the RALO.

It is not desirable to have an organization join several RALOs through local chapters, so that the central organization could acheieve undue influence.

I guess that leaves us with the original question, but with a little more criteria for making an evaluation.

--bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

...

Bob, the relevant section of the ICANN Bylaws ( http://www.icann.org/en/about/governance/bylaws#XI -2.4, sub-section i.2) read:

The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region (as defined in Section 5 of Article VI) of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region, by others.

The section of our ALS Criteria ( http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/framework.htm) is syntactically cleaner, but essentially the same:

Be constituted so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region.

So the issue is who controls the ALS. At first glance, this organization seems to have much merit, but it is far less clear that the meet the actual criteria. If they had a North American "chapter", that would likely qualify. Or if due to their support from Arizona and Kitchener their membership just happens to be more than 50% local.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 08:30 PM, Bob Bruen wrote: Hi Alan,

Is there a requirement stating that members of an organization must be citizens of the Region at a minumum level to be permitted to be an ALS in that Region?

Or is it that some measurement of control must be exercised from within the Region?

I can understand the reasoning to have an ALS be part of the Region, but it seems counter intuitive to keep some international organizations from be members of a RALO. In some cases, international can still mean within a particular Region, but in other cases not.

thanks, bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

Not sure of the relevance of the question - ISOC is not ant ALAS, not have they applied to be. ISOC local chapters which are locally controlled are what we see within At-Large.

Without knowing what percentage of their members are citizens of residents of North America, there is no way to know whether they satisfy the prime ALAS membership criteria.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 06:55 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote: How is this different from ISOC? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" > > Hi, > > This is from their website: > > "UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of > Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with > the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), > Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and > other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for > International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently > co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a member > of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented at > the Global Alliance for ICT and Development." > > Of course, there could be more to it... > > --bob > > > > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote: > >> Hi Garth, >> >> From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide >> organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... >> At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. >> Maybe the DD could be rephrased. >> >> Louis Houle >> Président >> La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) >> Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org >> >> Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit : >>> Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) >>> University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> From: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM >>> To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene >>> Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant >>> "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> Dear Garth and Darlene, >>> >>> On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from >>> "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please >>> find the Due Diligence form attached. >>> >>> We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in >>> your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC >>> review on this application. >>> >>> According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the >>> regional advice is on 28/11/2012. >>> >>> We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive >>> information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to >>> third parties. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, >>> Julia Charvolen >>> >>> ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC >>> >>> E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>> >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>> ------ >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> > > -- > Dr. Robert Bruen > Cold Rain Labs > http://coldrain.net/bruen > +1.802.579.6288 > ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

I'm not going to propose a methodology, but the wording that we have DOES cover it. If (for the sake of example), ISOC were to start instructing chapters on how to vote in ICANN matters, or who to select, the individual users in that region no longer would predominate. How to recognize it is another issue of course. And if all of THOSE users claim it was really their own idea, not too much we could do about it. Alan At 03/12/2012 03:54 PM, Bob Bruen wrote:

Hi Louis,

I don't have a final answer, but I do have a few thoughts.

We could ask the applicant if the local chapter is joining or if the whole multi-RIR organization is joining the one RIR. If the local chapter is joining, do we see other RIR chapters joining in their local RIR.

We can easily monitor their activities as is done with others, all email discussions, meetings conference calls, etc are public and recorded. Any undue influence would show up.

--bob

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012, Houle Louis wrote:

...

Hi Bob,

This is also what I had in mind. How do we make sure that undue influence would not occur?

Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org

Le 2012-11-26 06:37, Bob Bruen a écrit :

...

Hi Alan, Thanks. This sounds quite reasonable, "predominate," vs. an exact number. It does seem to support the idea that a chapter of an organization could still become and ALS, if the chapter had a level of independence from the central control organization. The whole organization would not be joining the RALO. It is not desirable to have an organization join several RALOs through local chapters, so that the central organization could acheieve undue influence. I guess that leaves us with the original question, but with a little more criteria for making an evaluation.

--bob On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

...

Bob, the relevant section of the ICANN Bylaws ( http://www.icann.org/en/about/governance/bylaws#XI -2.4, sub-section i.2) read:

The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region (as defined in Section 5 of Article VI) of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region, by others. The section of our ALS Criteria ( http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/framework.htm) is syntactically cleaner, but essentially the same:

Be constituted so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region. So the issue is who controls the ALS. At first glance, this organization seems to have much merit, but it is far less clear that the meet the actual criteria. If they had a North American "chapter", that would likely qualify. Or if due to their support from Arizona and Kitchener their membership just happens to be more than 50% local. Alan At 25/11/2012 08:30 PM, Bob Bruen wrote: Hi Alan,

Is there a requirement stating that members of an organization must be citizens of the Region at a minumum level to be permitted to be an ALS in that Region?

Or is it that some measurement of control must be exercised from within the Region?

I can understand the reasoning to have an ALS be part of the Region, but it seems counter intuitive to keep some international organizations from be members of a RALO. In some cases, international can still mean within a particular Region, but in other cases not.

thanks, bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Alan Greenberg wrote:

Not sure of the relevance of the question - ISOC is not ant ALAS, not have they applied to be. ISOC local chapters which are locally controlled are what we see within At-Large.

Without knowing what percentage of their members are citizens of residents of North America, there is no way to know whether they satisfy the prime ALAS membership criteria.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 06:55 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote: How is this different from ISOC? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" > > Hi, > > This is from their website: > > "UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of > Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with > the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), > Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and > other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for > International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently > co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a member > of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented at > the Global Alliance for ICT and Development." > > Of course, there could be more to it... > > --bob > > > > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote: > >> Hi Garth, >> >> From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide >> organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... >> At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. >> Maybe the DD could be rephrased. >> >> Louis Houle >> Président >> La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) >> Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org >> >> Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit : >>> Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) >>> University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> From: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM >>> To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene >>> Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff >>> Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant >>> "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research" >>> >>> >>> Dear Garth and Darlene, >>> >>> On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from >>> "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please >>> find the Due Diligence form attached. >>> >>> We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in >>> your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC >>> review on this application. >>> >>> According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the >>> regional advice is on 28/11/2012. >>> >>> We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive >>> information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to >>> third parties. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, >>> Julia Charvolen >>> >>> ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC >>> >>> E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>> >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>> ------ >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> > > -- > Dr. Robert Bruen > Cold Rain Labs > http://coldrain.net/bruen > +1.802.579.6288 > ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

Touché At 25/11/2012 08:40 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote:

All questions are relevant, and you just answered it

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Greenberg" <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:08 PM To: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net>; "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

...

Not sure of the relevance of the question - ISOC is not ant ALAS, not have they applied to be. ISOC local chapters which are locally controlled are what we see within At-Large.

Without knowing what percentage of their members are citizens of residents of North America, there is no way to know whether they satisfy the prime ALAS membership criteria.

Alan

At 25/11/2012 06:55 PM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote:

...

How is this different from ISOC?

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

...

Hi,

This is from their website:

"UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of Psychology, at Arizona State University

(USA) in close collaboration > with

...

the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a > member of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented > at the Global Alliance for ICT and Development."

Of course, there could be more to it...

--bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote:

...

Hi Garth,

From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. Maybe the DD could be rephrased.

Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org

Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit :

...

Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant >>> "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

From: ICANN At-Large Staff Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS >>> applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

Dear Garth and Darlene,

On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please find the Due Diligence form attached.

We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS >>> in your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC review on this application.

According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the regional advice is on 28/11/2012.

We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to third parties.

Regards,

Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, Julia Charvolen

ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC

E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

Hi Garth and Bob, The head office is in Arizona with regional offices around the world. Fine. Who could be delegate for UCPSARnet ? If the answer is a North American member, I don't have any more questions you honor. ;-) Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org Le 2012-11-25 18:55, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit :

How is this different from ISOC?

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruen" <bruen@coldrain.net> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: "Houle Louis" <Louis.Houle@oricom.ca> Cc: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen@knujon.com>; "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fw: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

...

Hi,

This is from their website:

"UCP-SARnet has been developed and sponsored by the Department of Psychology, at Arizona State University (USA) in close collaboration with the Centre for Community Based Research (CCBR) in Kitchener (Canada), Warsaw School of Social Sciences and Humanities in Warsaw (Poland), and other international partners. Initially co-sponsored by the Centre for International Governance Innovations (CIGI), UCP-SARnet is currently co-sponsored and hosted by IGLOO in Canada. UCP-SARnet is also a member of the Global Alliance on Community Engaged Research and is represented at the Global Alliance for ICT and Development."

Of course, there could be more to it...

--bob

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, Houle Louis wrote:

...

Hi Garth,

From the little I know about UCP, it seems to be a worldwide organization, not North American! I wish I'm wrong but... At least (question 2-d), it's not controled by a North American org. Maybe the DD could be rephrased.

Louis Houle Président La Société Internet du Québec (ISOC Québec) Louis.Houle@isocquebec.org

Le 2012-11-12 19:48, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com a écrit :

...

Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

From: ICANN At-Large Staff Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:19 PM To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com ; Thompson, Darlene Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Due Diligence complete- Regional Advice requested ALS applicant "(170) University Community Partnership for Social Action Research"

Dear Garth and Darlene,

On the October 10th we received a NARALO ALS application from "University Community Partnership for Social Action Research". Please find the Due Diligence form attached.

We kindly ask you to provide us with the regional advice for this ALS in your capacity as NARALO Secretary. Your advice will support the ALAC review on this application.

According to our timeline for ALS applications the due date for the regional advice is on 28/11/2012.

We would like to remind you that the DD form could contain sensitive information. Please read the form carefully before sending it off to third parties.

Regards,

Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Gisella Gruber-White, Matt Ashtiani, Julia Charvolen

ICANN Policy Staff in support of ALAC

E-mail: staff@atlarge.icann.org

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

-- Dr. Robert Bruen Cold Rain Labs http://coldrain.net/bruen +1.802.579.6288