Roland and all, Thanks for chiming in Roeland. Good to have an old timer like yourself provide historic wisdom of which you are so well known for. I for one fully agree that censoring content itself is a slippery slope and should be avoided for the very reasons you so nicely stated. Additionally Registries and Registrars cannot adaquately oversee their registrants, and ICANN isn't willing to do so. This leaves Government LEA's to perform that function, which also isn't at times a very effective or wise idea. Yet FISA suggests doing just that in the US. And Canada as well as the UK have similar legislation and/or regulation nearing compleation to do likewise. ACTA for instance, a very recently negotiated in secret agreement between the US, Canada, and the EU countries is about to be considered for in part, the purposes of addressing content related issues, including IP interests and Child pornography content. If anyone want's some refrences on ACTA, please contact me off-list, I will be happy to forward them. -----Original Message-----

From: RoelandM@RoelandMeyer.Org Sent: Jun 16, 2008 10:49 AM To: "'Jeffrey A. Williams'" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>, 'Wendy Seltzer' <wendy@seltzer.com>, "'Brendler,Beau'" <Brenbe@consumer.org>, aheineman@ntia.doc.gov, ssene@ntia.doc.gov Cc: 'At-Large Worldwide' <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca, bev@pcna.ca, icann-list@sorehands.com, namecritic@blogs.pn, bfausett@internet.law.pro, CWallace@cygnacom.com, carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm, dannyyounger@yahoo.com, dave@farber.net, denise.michel@icann.org, derek@aa419.org, dpefeva@isoc.bg, dominik.filipp@dsoft.sk, elisabeth.porteneuve@cetp.ipsl.fr, enoss@tucows.com, frederic.teboul@icann.org, shearman@victoria.tc.ca, cgomes@verisign.com, jeffrey@icann.org, iza@anr.org, jam@jacquelinemorris.com, jefsey@club-internet.fr, baptista@publicroot.org, john-ietf@jck.com, jpalmer@american-webmasters.net, Julie.myers@dhs.gov, matthias.langenegger@icann.org, mike@palage.com, michele@blacknight.ie, Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us, jnevett@networksolutions.com, nick.ashton-hart@icann.org, twomey@icann.org, rguerra@privaterra.org, robert@privaterra.org, roberto@icann.org, ross@tucows.com, stacy.burnette@icann.org, sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr, Thomas.E.Wrosch@STATE.OR.US, roessler@does-not-exist.org, DThompson@GOV.NU.CA, vb@bertola.eu, joly@punkcast.com Subject: RE: [At-Large] Bad domains McAfee study

I have a difficult time believing that anyone would even consider registries responsible for content. This was a battle that we all fought long and hard over , in 1999. This skates perilously close to the edge of that slippery slope where we start denying domain registrations due to (perceived) content. When you start blocking any of them then the precedent is set and opens DNS registrations up to all sorts of insane censorship issues. The next thing you know, you will have some religious whacktard demanding that breastcancer.org be deleted because it contains the word "breast".

What needs to happen is that bot-farmers and phishing racketeers need to start doing some serious jail time. International alliances need to be setup to do this, not forcing the registry operators to become unpaid "police". They should not be allowed to volunteer for that role either.

We can find the bot farmers and we can catch the racketeers. What we can't seem to do is get them to spend more than three months in jail.

For most of you on this list, yes I am the same rmeyer@mhsc.com that was on the IFWP and DNSO. I am currently a director of the TLDA with Joe Baptista.

--- R O E L A N D M J M E Y E R Nyon, CH mailto: RoelandM@RoelandMeyer.Org http://www.RoelandMeyer.Org Mob: +41 79 295 14 68

...

-----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:11 PM To: Wendy Seltzer; Brendler,Beau; aheineman@ntia.doc.gov; ssene@ntia.doc.gov Cc: At-Large Worldwide; alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca; bev@pcna.ca; icann- list@sorehands.com; namecritic@blogs.pn; Brenbe@consumer.org; bfausett@internet.law.pro; CWallace@cygnacom.com; carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm; dannyyounger@yahoo.com; dave@farber.net; denise.michel@icann.org; derek@aa419.org; dpefeva@isoc.bg; dominik.filipp@dsoft.sk; elisabeth.porteneuve@cetp.ipsl.fr; enoss@tucows.com; frederic.teboul@icann.org; shearman@victoria.tc.ca; cgomes@verisign.com; jeffrey@icann.org; iza@anr.org; jam@jacquelinemorris.com; jefsey@club-internet.fr; baptista@publicroot.org; john-ietf@jck.com; jpalmer@american- webmasters.net; Julie.myers@dhs.gov; matthias.langenegger@icann.org; mike@palage.com; michele@blacknight.ie; Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us; jnevett@networksolutions.com; nick.ashton-hart@icann.org; twomey@icann.org; rguerra@privaterra.org; robert@privaterra.org; roberto@icann.org; roelandm@roelandmeyer.org; ross@tucows.com; stacy.burnette@icann.org; sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr; Thomas.E.Wrosch@STATE.OR.US; roessler@does-not-exist.org; DThompson@GOV.NU.CA; vb@bertola.eu; wendy@seltzer.com; joly@punkcast.com Subject: Re: [At-Large] Bad domains McAfee study

Wendy and all,

I agree. Registries should not be held accountable for "Content". They are in part at least responsible for DNS configuration as such is a safty and security issue. Which was what this Mcafee study was all about.

From my and our members experiance and to a great extent, our independant study, your accurate in that older DN's "Tend", but are all not necessarly less "infested" or "Dangerous" than newer DN's. Dot info domain names are far too often more "Dangerous" from a DNS configuration stand point than most, other than .cn .hu, .ca, .it, .co.uk, com.za, .com.au, .in and .ru, and more recently, .us.

-----Original Message-----

...

From: Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com> Sent: Jun 9, 2008 12:23 PM To: "Brendler, Beau" <Brenbe@consumer.org> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Bad domains McAfee study

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

I'm not Afilias, but I'd tend to say that domain name doesn't equal content, and a registry is not and should not be responsible for domains' uses.

I'm not sure this study is any more representative or useful than "older sites tend to be less infested than newer ones" or "URLs that start with WWW differ from those that don't."

- --Wendy

Brendler, Beau wrote:

...

Thanks, Jaqueline, that's interesting. I'd also be really interested to hear Afilias' response to this characterization of .info.

-----Original Message----- From: Jacqueline A. Morris [mailto:jam@jacquelinemorris.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:33 PM To: Brendler, Beau Cc: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Bad domains McAfee study

Hi Beau There's been some discussion on the cc lists about this as you can imagine. Here's the .hk response to the media:

We are very surprised to learn about the research findings from McAfee. In fact, in a meeting organized by Anti-Phishing Working Group last week in Tokyo Japan, Hong Kong Domain Name Registration (HKDNR) was invited to present its best practice in combating suspicious websites. We are trying to get in touch with the research author to gain more insights into this research and the findings. The research report shows the figures and analysis of the whole of last year. In particular, the report claimed that 9.9 million websites have been tested. It is suspected that most of the malicious sites were tested several months ago and no long exist.

HKDNR is committed to providing a safe Internet environment for the community and has put in place various measures against suspicious websites. We have been working closely with Office of the Telecommunications Authority (OFTA), Hong Kong Police and Hong Kong Computer Emergency Response Team Coordination Centre (HKCERT) to monitor and control the situation. In August last year, in conjunction with the list of suspicious domains provided by OFTA, we suspended over 10,000 domains in regard. Following that initiatives, the situation with '.hk' related suspicious websites has been greatly improved.

We actively review our systems and domain name registration procedures and policies. Particularly, we have more stringent documentary requirements to combat suspicious websites registered overseas in order to catch up with the fast-changing Internet world. We also want to call for the general community to be aware of the issue and report to related authorities whenever they have queries accessing a web site.

Brendler, Beau wrote:

...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24966835?GT1=43001

"McAfee found the most dangerous domains to navigate to are ".hk" (Hong Kong), ".cn" (China) and ".info" (information)."

Apologies if you've seen this already.

BB

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFITYNEuuui10VsrVERAqc+AJ96GWQ9v+NDJWId5c8LWCLnZopX2gCfbMuT bnubsA10ZEEcJI2Fcvya3D8= =q+cj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge- lists.icann.org

At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

-- All messages scanned with ClamWin anti-virus. http://www.roelandmeyer.org Complaints mailto:abuse@roelandmeyer.org

Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827