Re: [Neobrahmigp] Bangla - Proposed code-point repertoire
Dear All, Let me share my observation regarding the Bnagla Code-point repertoire (pardon me, if my observation sounds naïve!)— - 098C (ঌ)—This so-called vocalic letter was never ever in use in Bangla. This was inherited from the Nāgarī (I prefer not to use the epithet "*Deva"* before Nāgarī as historically there is no element of divinity in the script) script. Even in Sanskrit its use was limited to a solitary verb root √*kl**̣**p- *"to be adapted" and a few of its conjugated forms, e.g. Vedic form *ca**̄**kl**̣**pé* in 3rd person Singular Perfect, Desiderative form *cikl**̣**psati*, etc. (Whitney, 1997: 24) In Bangla this was blindly copied from Nāgarī. It does not even have any historical or archaic value in Bangla writing system (for a detailed discussion see Sarkar, 2016ː 104-110). Moreover there is high risk of confusing this letter with the symbol for Bangla numeral 9 (fortunately numerals are disallowed hereǃ)—these two are awfully similar. Inclusion of this letter has no valid argument whatsoever. This should be disallowed as per IDNA protocol. Except this rest is fine! Best Rajib Chakraborty References: 1. Sarkar, Pabitra. 2016. “A Commonsense Linguistic Note on the Sanskrit Alphabet”. In Bhattacharyya, Chandan & Sen, Subhrajit etds. 2016 *S* *́odhanidhiḥ*, Benaras Mercantile Co. & Gourbanga University, pp. 104-110. 2. Whitney, William Dwight. 1997. *The Roots, Verb-forms and Primary Derivatives of the Sanskrit Language*. 1st edn in 1885. Delhiː Motilal Banarasidass Publishers Private Limited. On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Akshat Joshi <akshatj@cdac.in> wrote:
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Dear All,
We have created an initial set of code-point repertoire for Bangla.
Your feedback/comments are solicited. We have planned to finalize the Bangla code-point repertoire by 17th of July '16, so your early responses would enable the detailed discussions and timely finalization.
-- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- Rajib Chakraborty
I agree with this observation of Rajib Chakraborty about non-functionality of the symbol under 098C which should be eliminated. Regards, Udaya Narayana Singh On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Rajib Chakraborty < rajibchakraborty2005@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Let me share my observation regarding the Bnagla Code-point repertoire (pardon me, if my observation sounds naïve!)—
- 098C (ঌ)—This so-called vocalic letter was never ever in use in Bangla. This was inherited from the Nāgarī (I prefer not to use the epithet "*Deva"* before Nāgarī as historically there is no element of divinity in the script) script. Even in Sanskrit its use was limited to a solitary verb root √*kl**̣**p- *"to be adapted" and a few of its conjugated forms, e.g. Vedic form *ca**̄**kl**̣**pé* in 3rd person Singular Perfect, Desiderative form *cikl**̣**psati*, etc. (Whitney, 1997: 24) In Bangla this was blindly copied from Nāgarī. It does not even have any historical or archaic value in Bangla writing system (for a detailed discussion see Sarkar, 2016ː 104-110). Moreover there is high risk of confusing this letter with the symbol for Bangla numeral 9 (fortunately numerals are disallowed hereǃ)—these two are awfully similar. Inclusion of this letter has no valid argument whatsoever. This should be disallowed as per IDNA protocol.
Except this rest is fine!
Best
Rajib Chakraborty
References:
1. Sarkar, Pabitra. 2016. “A Commonsense Linguistic Note on the Sanskrit Alphabet”. In Bhattacharyya, Chandan & Sen, Subhrajit etds. 2016 *S* *́odhanidhiḥ*, Benaras Mercantile Co. & Gourbanga University, pp. 104-110.
2. Whitney, William Dwight. 1997. *The Roots, Verb-forms and Primary Derivatives of the Sanskrit Language*. 1st edn in 1885. Delhiː Motilal Banarasidass Publishers Private Limited.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Akshat Joshi <akshatj@cdac.in> wrote:
[image: Boxbe] <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (akshatj@cdac.in) Add cleanup rule <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Fkey%...> | More info <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=25929579501&...>
Dear All,
We have created an initial set of code-point repertoire for Bangla.
Your feedback/comments are solicited. We have planned to finalize the Bangla code-point repertoire by 17th of July '16, so your early responses would enable the detailed discussions and timely finalization.
-- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ C-DAC is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CDACINDIA & Twitter: @cdacindia ]
This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Neobrahmigp mailing list Neobrahmigp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/neobrahmigp
-- Rajib Chakraborty
-- *Udaya Narayana Singh * Professor, Rabindra Bhavana, Visva-Bharati, Santiniketan 731235 Dt Birbhum (West Bengal) Cell: 94340-50218 & 98301-32234 Home-page www.udayanarayana.com
Dear sir, Then should we proceed to block this character from the NBGP code-point repertoire? This means we will mark it in blue under the disposition that it is blocked by the NBGP recommendation. Also, please advise if the same argument holds true for U+098C in Assamese and Manipuri language? with regards, Akshat On 04-07-2016 10:59, Udaya Narayana Singh wrote:
I agree with this observation of Rajib Chakraborty about non-functionality of the symbol under 098C which should be eliminated.
Regards,
Udaya Narayana Singh
On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Rajib Chakraborty <rajibchakraborty2005@gmail.com <mailto:rajibchakraborty2005@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All,
Let me share my observation regarding the Bnagla Code-point repertoire (pardon me, if my observation sounds naïve!)—
* 098C (ঌ)—This so-called vocalic letter was never ever in use in Bangla. This was inherited from the Nāgarī(I prefer not to use the epithet "/Deva"/ before Nāgarīas historically there is no element of divinity in the script) script. Even in Sanskrit its use was limited to a solitary verb root √/kl//̣//p- /"to be adapted" and a few of its conjugated forms, e.g. Vedic form /ca//̄//kl//̣//pé/in 3rd person Singular Perfect, Desiderative form /cikl//̣//psati/, etc. (Whitney, 1997: 24) In Bangla this was blindly copied from Nāgarī. It does not even have any historical or archaic value in Bangla writing system (for a detailed discussion see Sarkar, 2016ː 104-110). Moreover there is high risk of confusing this letter with the symbol for Bangla numeral 9 (fortunately numerals are disallowed hereǃ)—these two are awfully similar. Inclusion of this letter has no valid argument whatsoever. This should be disallowed as per IDNA protocol.
Except this rest is fine!
Best
Rajib Chakraborty
References:
1. Sarkar, Pabitra. 2016. “A Commonsense Linguistic Note on the Sanskrit Alphabet”. In Bhattacharyya, Chandan & Sen, Subhrajit etds. 2016 /S//́odhanidhiḥ/, Benaras Mercantile Co. & Gourbanga University, pp. 104-110.
2. Whitney, William Dwight. 1997. /The Roots, Verb-forms and Primary Derivatives of the Sanskrit Language/. 1^st edn in 1885. Delhiː Motilal Banarasidass Publishers Private Limited.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Akshat Joshi <akshatj@cdac.in <mailto:akshatj@cdac.in>> wrote:
Boxbe <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (akshatj@cdac.in <mailto:akshatj@cdac.in>) Add cleanup rule <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Fkey%...> | More info <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=25929579501&...>
Dear All,
We have created an initial set of code-point repertoire for Bangla.
Your feedback/comments are solicited.
We have planned to finalize the Bangla code-point repertoire by 17th of July '16, so your early responses would enable the detailed discussions and timely finalization.
-- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ C-DAC is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CDACINDIA & Twitter: @cdacindia ]
This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Neobrahmigp mailing list Neobrahmigp@icann.org <mailto:Neobrahmigp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/neobrahmigp
-- Rajib Chakraborty
-- *Udaya Narayana Singh * Professor, Rabindra Bhavana, Visva-Bharati, Santiniketan 731235 Dt Birbhum (West Bengal) Cell: 94340-50218 & 98301-32234 Home-page www.udayanarayana.com <http://www.udayanarayana.com/>
-- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ C-DAC is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CDACINDIA & Twitter: @cdacindia ] This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. We should block this character from the NBGP code-point repertoire for all three languages using this script - Bangla, Assamese, and Manipuri. Regards, Udaya Narayana Singh Office: Professor, Rabindra Bhavana, andChair, Centre for Endangered Languages,Visva-Bharati, Santiniketan 731235 Dt Birbhum (West Bengal, INDIA)Residence: B1 & C1, Dakshinayan, Aban Pally, Mauza Taltor (Near Jorabari), Santiniketan 731235 Cell: 98301-32234Home-page www.udayanarayana.com On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 1:37 PM, Akshat Joshi <akshatj@cdac.in> wrote: Dear sir, Then should we proceed to block this character from the NBGP code-point repertoire? This means we will mark it in blue under the disposition that it is blocked by the NBGP recommendation. Also, please advise if the same argument holds true for U+098C in Assamese and Manipuri language? with regards, Akshat On 04-07-2016 10:59, Udaya Narayana Singh wrote: I agree with this observation of Rajib Chakraborty about non-functionality of the symbol under 098C which should be eliminated. Regards, Udaya Narayana Singh On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Rajib Chakraborty <rajibchakraborty2005@gmail.com> wrote: Dear All, Let me share my observation regarding the Bnagla Code-point repertoire (pardon me, if my observation sounds naïve!)— - 098C (ঌ)—This so-called vocalic letter was never ever in use in Bangla. This was inherited from the Nāgarī (I prefer not to use the epithet "Deva" before Nāgarī as historically there is no element of divinity in the script) script. Even in Sanskrit its use was limited to a solitary verb root √kḷp- "to be adapted" and a few of its conjugated forms, e.g. Vedic form cākḷpé in 3rd person Singular Perfect, Desiderative form cikḷpsati, etc. (Whitney, 1997: 24) In Bangla this was blindly copied from Nāgarī. It does not even have any historical or archaic value in Bangla writing system (for a detailed discussion see Sarkar, 2016ː 104-110). Moreover there is high risk of confusing this letter with the symbol for Bangla numeral 9 (fortunately numerals are disallowed hereǃ)—these two are awfully similar. Inclusion of this letter has no valid argument whatsoever. This should be disallowed as per IDNA protocol. Except this rest is fine! Best Rajib Chakraborty References: 1. Sarkar, Pabitra. 2016. “A Commonsense Linguistic Note on the Sanskrit Alphabet”. In Bhattacharyya, Chandan & Sen, Subhrajit etds. 2016 Śodhanidhiḥ, Benaras Mercantile Co. & Gourbanga University, pp. 104-110. 2. Whitney, William Dwight. 1997. The Roots, Verb-forms and Primary Derivatives of the Sanskrit Language. 1st edn in 1885. Delhiː Motilal Banarasidass Publishers Private Limited. On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Akshat Joshi <akshatj@cdac.in> wrote: This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (akshatj@cdac.in) Add cleanup rule | More info Dear All, We have created an initial set of code-point repertoire for Bangla. Your feedback/comments are solicited. We have planned to finalize the Bangla code-point repertoire by 17th of July '16, so your early responses would enable the detailed discussions and timely finalization. -- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ C-DAC is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CDACINDIA & Twitter: @cdacindia ] This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Neobrahmigp mailing list Neobrahmigp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/neobrahmigp -- Rajib Chakraborty -- Udaya Narayana Singh Professor, Rabindra Bhavana, Visva-Bharati, Santiniketan 731235 Dt Birbhum (West Bengal) Cell: 94340-50218 & 98301-32234 Home-page www.udayanarayana.com -- Regards, Akshat Joshi C-DAC GIST ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ C-DAC is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CDACINDIA & Twitter: @cdacindia ] This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (4)
-
Akshat Joshi -
Rajib Chakraborty -
Udaya Narayana Singh -
Udaya Narayana Singh