RE: [registrars] FYI re: Transfers
Dan, I think it is retransfers-comments@icann.org based on the FROM address in the forum active message. Tim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [registrars] FYI re: Transfers From: Dan Wright <wright@smx.pair.com> Date: Thu, September 20, 2007 10:47 am To: Ross Rader <ross@tucows.com> Cc: Registrars Constituency <registrars@gnso.icann.org> Note that the notice says that comments may be posted at: http://forum.icann.org/lists/retransfers-comments/ However, I do not see any means of posting or instructions for posting comments at that URL. Daniel J. Wright wright@pair.com Lead Software Developer, pairNIC https://www.pairnic.com pair Networks, Inc. http://www.pair.com On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Ross Rader wrote:
Staff has posted a notice of advisory regarding the domain transfers policy. This was not posted pursuant to the work of the Transfers WG or the GNSO Council - it is an independent effort. I have yet to read and understand it, but I would be interested in your respective feedback on the document.
http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-19sep07.htm
-- Regards,
Ross Rader Director, Retail Services Tucows Inc.
http://www.domaindirect.com t. 416.538.5492
Hi to all After i saw the ICANN post, I was reading carefully all your comments on transfer issue and generally about the fact that in people mind (registrants and registrars + generally all contracts between them), a life time for a domain name is one year (365 days). Many of our problems caused by actions took after or near this fateful 365 days period will be simply resolved if we change a place of the expiration date from the place previous to Auto-Renew Grace period to after (as you can see in my plan attached on Scenario 1). This is the way that's working on almost all annual based fees such as insurances or magazine subscription. We must offer the client the possibility to take his decision to keep his domain before its expires and not to allow continuously posterior separates periods for any reason. The most abvious example is the actual life-Cycle! So complicated for nothing?? Registrars are blocking for Reason A or B or C or even inventing some legitime reasons because the domain passed its 365 days life. So it would be nice to receive your comments on this. Maybe i ignore some "reasons" that makes this solution impossible or "bad" or maybe i miss something on this logic? Nevertheless, i would like also to share with you another possibility i considered but still on second position because less obvious but more appropriate to me. At the beginning, i was considering that the "expiration" may come even after the Redemption Grace Period (Scenario 2) and i still beleive on it. This would keep the unconditional alarm effect of a non working domain and wake up the owner. The only problem can because these 30 days RGP inside the 365 days wich are supposed to work should work, and the domain name should stay operational for the paid period. So in such situation, if the registrant do not want to renew his domain name, he may be able to use his domain name for the entire 365 days. How to do this? So the solution is that we don't have to block the domain during the whole 30 days. Once the domain (which has not been renewed on the past Auto-renew Grace period) enter to the RGP and stops working, the owner can decide to renew it (action YES) or to do not renew it (action NO). One of these actions is required to reactivate the domain name. If the answer is NO, the domain will work for the last 30 days before becoming available again, but the owner can change NO into YES at anytime within the 30 days of RGP. It is considered as abandoned after his RGP if NO is not changed into YES. If there is no answer from the owner, it means that he do not care about his domain and his domain is even not active. In such case, the last 30 days of the domain name will stay offline before release and this will not change anything for the owner who do not even know that his domain is not working anymore. This required action is also a good way to make the costumer decide to choose the NO answer with all it's consequences. If the owner wake up during the RGP, he can still renew it at any moment during the last 30 days by answering YES or NO. The registrant can decide to transfer his domain name in any situation before the expiration. The transfer should be initiated before the end of RGP. That would be the only condition. Of course, all requirements to validate a transfer should be established according the RAA rules. Best Regards Sam BAVAFA Domaine.fr P.S. If the attached document is not included on this email, you can find it here : http://www.novamedias.com/gtld-life-Cycle-Domaine.fr.jpg
Of course, all requirements to validate a transfer should be established according the RAA rules.
Not all registrars provide RGP service, nor does Verisign require a registrar to be configured to do so. RGP is an optional registry service. There seems to be some creep between a registry providing a service, such as auto-renew and RGP, and registrars being required to perform additional tasks because the registry offers a service. The transfer requirements themselves are the source of one of the problems with "after expiration" transfers. A domain registrant will frequently purchase other services in addition to domain name registration, such as hosting, dns, or email. If (a) the registrant is using <user>@<domain>.<tld> as the administrative contact address for <domain>.<tld>, and (b) the registrant is using a registrar's bundled email service for that address, then the requirement to permit transfers after expiration of the domain name would appear to require registrars to continue to provide email service after expiration of the contract for email service. Otherwise, the registrant is not going to be able to confirm transfer via that email address to the gaining registrar, because email service was discontinued at the end of the contracted term. A registrar cannot be required to provide bundled services, such as email, for longer than the contracted term, unless the idea is to impose a requirement for maintenance of expired email accounts which is not imposed on ISPs or other email service providers. Some registrars change DNS on expired names and point them to a "Renew your domain name" page upon expiration of the domain name, so that the registrant can renew *during* the AGP and be notified of the expiration before the name slides into the more expensive RGP. Even if the admin contact email address through that domain is being serviced elsewhere, the email is going to be shut down. It is debatable whether operating in this manner helps more registrants become aware of the need to renew their domain names less expensively than using RGP. However, whether "renewal notification by DNS change) is or is not, a preferable "act now" notification to the registrant is purely a matter of opinion. Another class of "edge" cases at the end of the auto-renew grace period. Even if the registrant requests transfer to the gaining registrar near the end of the auto-renew grace period, the time periods between (a) the registrant's request, (b) the gaining registrar's confirmation, (c) transmitting the transfer to registry, and (d) the transfer at registry, are all variable. Hence, the domain name may be deleted by the registry at the end of the auto-renew period, even if the registrant requested transfer prior to the end of the auto-renew grace period. Alternatively, we could make the default registration term 13 months instead of 12 months. Then, no one could possibly fail to renew a domain registration, right?
Dear John: I agree 100% with you. So, ICANN should decide if 1 year period is 12 or 13 months. Anyway, registrars will invoice/warning their clients BEFORE the end of the term. If seems to me logical that 1 year registration is 12 months!!! ONLY ! Note1: "RGP is an optional registry service !!!... ... creep between a registry providing a service, such as auto-renew and RGP, and registrars being required to perform additional tasks because the registry offers a service. " Correct ! Note2: "A registrar cannot be required to provide bundled services, such as email, for longer than the contracted term", Its true! Best, Ricardo Vaz Monteiro Nomer.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org]On Behalf Of John Berryhill Sent: quarta-feira, 26 de setembro de 2007 13:01 To: 'Registrars Constituency' Subject: [registrars] FYI: re transfers
Of course, all requirements to validate a transfer should be established according the RAA rules.
Not all registrars provide RGP service, nor does Verisign require a registrar to be configured to do so. RGP is an optional registry service. There seems to be some creep between a registry providing a service, such as auto-renew and RGP, and registrars being required to perform additional tasks because the registry offers a service. The transfer requirements themselves are the source of one of the problems with "after expiration" transfers. A domain registrant will frequently purchase other services in addition to domain name registration, such as hosting, dns, or email. If (a) the registrant is using <user>@<domain>.<tld> as the administrative contact address for <domain>.<tld>, and (b) the registrant is using a registrar's bundled email service for that address, then the requirement to permit transfers after expiration of the domain name would appear to require registrars to continue to provide email service after expiration of the contract for email service. Otherwise, the registrant is not going to be able to confirm transfer via that email address to the gaining registrar, because email service was discontinued at the end of the contracted term. A registrar cannot be required to provide bundled services, such as email, for longer than the contracted term, unless the idea is to impose a requirement for maintenance of expired email accounts which is not imposed on ISPs or other email service providers. Some registrars change DNS on expired names and point them to a "Renew your domain name" page upon expiration of the domain name, so that the registrant can renew *during* the AGP and be notified of the expiration before the name slides into the more expensive RGP. Even if the admin contact email address through that domain is being serviced elsewhere, the email is going to be shut down. It is debatable whether operating in this manner helps more registrants become aware of the need to renew their domain names less expensively than using RGP. However, whether "renewal notification by DNS change) is or is not, a preferable "act now" notification to the registrant is purely a matter of opinion. Another class of "edge" cases at the end of the auto-renew grace period. Even if the registrant requests transfer to the gaining registrar near the end of the auto-renew grace period, the time periods between (a) the registrant's request, (b) the gaining registrar's confirmation, (c) transmitting the transfer to registry, and (d) the transfer at registry, are all variable. Hence, the domain name may be deleted by the registry at the end of the auto-renew period, even if the registrant requested transfer prior to the end of the auto-renew grace period. Alternatively, we could make the default registration term 13 months instead of 12 months. Then, no one could possibly fail to renew a domain registration, right?
Anyway, registrars will invoice/warning their clients BEFORE the end of the term.
There is an implicit requirement in the RAA for two reminders: ------ http://www.icann.org/nsi/icann-raa-04nov99.htm#IIJ Registrar shall register SLDs to SLD holders only for fixed periods. At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the SLD holder to pay a renewal fee within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration. ------ In classic ICANN drafting form, it is ambiguous whether these reminders include pre-expiration reminders. Although the sentence begins with "At the conclusion of the registration period" the grammatical structure of the sentence attaches this time point to "shall... result in cancellation of the registration" as the "time specified in a second notice" may have been the time specified in a notice sent previous to "At the conclusion of the registration period". The other long-cycle obligation with respect to any registration is to retain records relating to that registration for a period of at least three years. Again, the primary problem here is one of accounting. Any audit of a registrar pursuant to, say, a public stock offering is going to require that a registrar be able to specify with precision what are its contractual obligations and what are the time periods associated with those contractual obligations. One cannot say, "I have a bunch of one year contracts, with continuing record retention obligations for three years, and my obligations under those contracts terminate 'a few days before 45 days after they say they expire'".
participants (4)
-
John Berryhill -
ricardo@nomer.com.br -
Sam BAVAFA -
Tim Ruiz