RSSAC Caucus: Feedback on Recommendation #2 from RSSAC057
RSSAC057 (Requirements for Measurements of the Local Perspective on the Root Server System) was published in September 2021. This document describes measurements and tools that can assess the performance of the RSS from an arbitrary location on the Internet. In the RSSAC057 document, recommendation #2 is: The RSSAC recommends that the ICANN Board identify a person or group to collaborate with the RSSAC Caucus on further development of a data repository as described in Section 5 of this document. The purpose of such collaboration is to make a specific proposals for a data repository, including: A. Implementation of the data publication mechanism B. Whether or not access to measurement results should be public or limited due to privacy concerns C. How to ensure data quality and prevent abuse D. A proposed database schema and model E. A proposed data exchange format (e.g., JSON) F. Cost estimates for the initial development and ongoing operation G. Identification of groups or parties that could operate the data repository The reasoning behind making such a data repository is so that analysis of the data could be done and yield insights that could be used to improve the RSS. The RSSAC caucus is now being asked if they still want to pursue this recommendation. At the 21 July RSSAC Caucus meeting, this topic was discussed, and the following points were made: 1. Using a tool and publishing data to the repository is voluntary and ad-hoc. The data collected in the repository would not be a good representation of global Internet usage. Therefore, any outcomes from the analysis of such data would be of little use for drawing conclusions on how to improve the RSS. 2. Engineering a system that remains open for anyone to easily contribute valid data, while protecting against misuse or “polluting” the data sets would be difficult to design and implement effectively. 3. Privacy issues with collected data (such as source IP address) would be difficult to manage. The consensus in the room was that Recommendation #2 was not something that the caucus want to pursue at this time. We want to solicit further input from the caucus on whether we should still pursue this recommendation or consider it closed for now. RSSAC 057 document: https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/root-server-system-advisory-committee-rss... <https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/root-server-system-advisory-committee-rss...> We welcome feedback on this matter. -Ken Renard
Hi Kenneth, I think that the three reasons given below (bias from voluntary contribution; pollution; privacy) are not severe enough to render the data repository useless. If the goal is to get hints about where to deploy new instances (as explained in Section 1.1 of RSSAC 057), then statistical outliers (e.g., high latency or packet drop reports) might provide a clue for further investigation. It seems less important to have a representative, unbiased view of the "average" data. Rather, a "collection of anecdotes" in a standardized format that facilitates spotting otherwise invisible issues seems like it may be useful. As for privacy, I do not think there's an issue: First, submission is optional, and second, the submission system could record the submitter's consent for sharing the data. Alternatively, access to IP address data might be restricted to the affected RSO only (whose letter would then have to be inferred from the measurement and included in the submission). To sum up, I'm not much convinced of the arguments. That said, I have no estimation how useful the system would be in the first place, even if the above three issues did not exist. So I'm not trying to make a case at all that this repository should be created. I'm OK with closing it, but my rationale for it would rather be "not sure how useful it would be", instead of "it's not perfect". Best, Peter On 7/25/24 15:53, Renard, Kenneth D CTR USARMY DEVCOM ARL (USA) via rssac-caucus wrote:
RSSAC057 (Requirements for Measurements of the Local Perspective on the Root Server System) was published in September 2021. This document describes measurements and tools that can assess the performance of the RSS from an arbitrary location on the Internet. In the RSSAC057 document, recommendation #2 is:
The RSSAC recommends that the ICANN Board identify a person or group to collaborate with the RSSAC Caucus on further development of a data repository as described in Section 5 of this document. The purpose of such collaboration is to make a specific
proposals for a data repository, including:
A. Implementation of the data publication mechanism
B. Whether or not access to measurement results should be public or limited due to privacy concerns
C. How to ensure data quality and prevent abuse
D. A proposed database schema and model
E. A proposed data exchange format (e.g., JSON)
F. Cost estimates for the initial development and ongoing operation
G. Identification of groups or parties that could operate the data repository
The reasoning behind making such a data repository is so that analysis of the data could be done and yield insights that could be used to improve the RSS. The RSSAC caucus is now being asked if they still want to pursue this recommendation.
At the 21 July RSSAC Caucus meeting, this topic was discussed, and the following points were made:
1. Using a tool and publishing data to the repository is voluntary and ad-hoc. The data collected in the repository would not be a good representation of global Internet usage. Therefore, any outcomes from the analysis of such data would be of little use for drawing conclusions on how to improve the RSS. 2. Engineering a system that remains open for anyone to easily contribute valid data, while protecting against misuse or “polluting” the data sets would be difficult to design and implement effectively. 3. Privacy issues with collected data (such as source IP address) would be difficult to manage.
The consensus in the room was that Recommendation #2 *was not something that the caucus want to pursue at this time*. We want to solicit further input from the caucus on whether we should still pursue this recommendation or consider it closed for now.
RSSAC 057 document:
https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/root-server-system-advisory-committee-rss... <https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/root-server-system-advisory-committee-rss...>
We welcome feedback on this matter.
-Ken Renard
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Thank you, Peter, for the feedback. If anyone else would like to provide feedback on the next steps for RSSAC057 Recommendation #2, please do so by 16 August. -Ken Renard From: Peter Thomassen <peter@desec.io> Date: Friday, July 26, 2024 at 5:26 PM To: Renard, Kenneth D CTR USARMY DEVCOM ARL (USA) <kenneth.d.renard.ctr@army.mil>, RSSAC Caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Subject: Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus: Feedback on Recommendation #2 from RSSAC057 Hi Kenneth, I think that the three reasons given below (bias from voluntary contribution; pollution; privacy) are not severe enough to render the data repository useless. If the goal is to get hints about where to deploy new instances (as explained in Section 1.1 of RSSAC 057), then statistical outliers (e.g., high latency or packet drop reports) might provide a clue for further investigation. It seems less important to have a representative, unbiased view of the "average" data. Rather, a "collection of anecdotes" in a standardized format that facilitates spotting otherwise invisible issues seems like it may be useful. As for privacy, I do not think there's an issue: First, submission is optional, and second, the submission system could record the submitter's consent for sharing the data. Alternatively, access to IP address data might be restricted to the affected RSO only (whose letter would then have to be inferred from the measurement and included in the submission). To sum up, I'm not much convinced of the arguments. That said, I have no estimation how useful the system would be in the first place, even if the above three issues did not exist. So I'm not trying to make a case at all that this repository should be created. I'm OK with closing it, but my rationale for it would rather be "not sure how useful it would be", instead of "it's not perfect". Best, Peter On 7/25/24 15:53, Renard, Kenneth D CTR USARMY DEVCOM ARL (USA) via rssac-caucus wrote:
RSSAC057 (Requirements for Measurements of the Local Perspective on the Root Server System) was published in September 2021. This document describes measurements and tools that can assess the performance of the RSS from an arbitrary location on the Internet. In the RSSAC057 document, recommendation #2 is:
The RSSAC recommends that the ICANN Board identify a person or group to collaborate with the RSSAC Caucus on further development of a data repository as described in Section 5 of this document. The purpose of such collaboration is to make a specific
proposals for a data repository, including:
A. Implementation of the data publication mechanism
B. Whether or not access to measurement results should be public or limited due to privacy concerns
C. How to ensure data quality and prevent abuse
D. A proposed database schema and model
E. A proposed data exchange format (e.g., JSON)
F. Cost estimates for the initial development and ongoing operation
G. Identification of groups or parties that could operate the data repository
The reasoning behind making such a data repository is so that analysis of the data could be done and yield insights that could be used to improve the RSS. The RSSAC caucus is now being asked if they still want to pursue this recommendation.
At the 21 July RSSAC Caucus meeting, this topic was discussed, and the following points were made:
1. Using a tool and publishing data to the repository is voluntary and ad-hoc. The data collected in the repository would not be a good representation of global Internet usage. Therefore, any outcomes from the analysis of such data would be of little use for drawing conclusions on how to improve the RSS. 2. Engineering a system that remains open for anyone to easily contribute valid data, while protecting against misuse or “polluting” the data sets would be difficult to design and implement effectively. 3. Privacy issues with collected data (such as source IP address) would be difficult to manage.
The consensus in the room was that Recommendation #2 *was not something that the caucus want to pursue at this time*. We want to solicit further input from the caucus on whether we should still pursue this recommendation or consider it closed for now.
RSSAC 057 document:
https://usg01.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitp.cdn.i... <https://usg01.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitp.cdn.icann.org%2Fen%2Ffiles%2Froot-server-system-advisory-committee-rssac-publications%2Frssac-057-09sep21-en.pdf&data=05%7C02%7Ckenneth.d.renard.ctr%40army.mil%7C0687ee343da645caf59708dcadb95260%7Cfae6d70f954b481192b60530d6f84c43%7C0%7C0%7C638576260106212852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BuTIVZqNwdl4AajmIdyjS3GsIvR9AbXWBT%2B0sP1o0Cc%3D&reserved=0> <https://usg01.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitp.cdn.i... <https://usg01.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitp.cdn.icann.org%2Fen%2Ffiles%2Froot-server-system-advisory-committee-rssac-publications%2Frssac-057-09sep21-en.pdf&data=05%7C02%7Ckenneth.d.renard.ctr%40army.mil%7C0687ee343da645caf59708dcadb95260%7Cfae6d70f954b481192b60530d6f84c43%7C0%7C0%7C638576260106220408%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=j1gc3Oc1dBysP%2FIhFbfxwQP5uIMEWSE4ixWixEnBGaU%3D&reserved=0>>
We welcome feedback on this matter.
-Ken Renard
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participants (2)
-
Peter Thomassen -
Renard, Kenneth D CTR USARMY DEVCOM ARL (USA)