Dear Harish, Your mail below brings up issues that you believe exist in the current process. However, you have not proposed any actual changes to the process. If you have changes to the process you would like to propose, please propose them. If there is then significant inerest from the Caucus we can explore them further, and if there is consensus from the Caucus we can implement them. Without some kind of proposal and without considerable interest from the Caucus no change to the process will be made. So if you are interested in changing the process, make a proposal and see if others on this list are interested as well. You can start with the pdf that Steve Sheng sent with his mail on January 5th. Whether we decide to update the process or not, the outcome of the IETF 116 travel funding random selection stands. Any updates to the process will only affect future IETF travel funding distribution. Sincerely, Jeff Osborn RSSAC Chair Begin forwarded message: From: Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [RSSAC Caucus] [Ext] Re: RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan Date: 14 January 2023 at 06:11:40 CET To: Andrew McConachie <andrew.mcconachie@icann.org> Cc: Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org>, RSSAC Caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Dear Andrew, As I went through RFC 3797 several times, I understood the following. Please correct me if I am wrong. There are a few potential disadvantages of using a Publicly Verifiable Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection process, such as the one outlined in RFC 3797. Some of these include: Complexity: The process outlined in the RFC is quite complex and may be difficult for some people to understand or implement. Time-consuming: The process of selecting nominees through random selection can be time-consuming, especially if there are a large number of potential nominees. Limited pool of nominees: The random selection process may not yield a diverse group of nominees, as it is based on chance rather than a deliberate effort to seek out candidates from underrepresented groups. That is what I had highlighted. Lack of accountability: Because the selection process is random, there is no way to hold individuals or groups accountable for the nominees that are chosen. Limited transparency: It can be difficult for members of the community to understand or verify the selection process, as it relies on complex mathematical algorithms and cryptographic techniques. Exclusion of certain people: Some individuals may be excluded from the selection process if they are not able to provide the necessary information or meet the requirements outlined in the RFC, which can be a limitation. Any suggestions? Harish Chowdhary On Fri, 13 Jan, 2023, 9:28 pm Andrew McConachie, <andrew.mcconachie@icann.org> wrote: Dear Harish, RFC 3797 is publicly verifiable. You can run the algorithm yourself with the information provided in Steve’s earlier email and verify the results yourself. If you are interested in past results the archives of this mailing list are available at: <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/rssac-caucus/> RFC 3797 is string agnostic. Each choice in the lottery is assigned an index and that index is the value the algorithm uses. Thus, these questions you have about how a name’s ordering may impact results are inconsequential. The sources of randomness are identified before the lottery determines the winner. But the random numbers generated by these sources cannot be known at the time each potential choice is assigned an index. Because of this, there is no way anyone can pre-determine an outcome by assigning specific indices to specific persons. Because at the time of index assignment no one can know which indices will be chosen. I hope this information helps and if you have further questions about how RFC 3797 functions, feel free to reach out. I’m certainly not an expert, but I have read it a few times. Thanks, Andrew On 11 Jan 2023, at 15:12, Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Steve, Thank you very much for your response. Please provide the following information to help us understand the process and fill any gaps in our knowledge. Please tell us what the results of the RSSAC CAUCUS IETF travel support have been since the program's inception, as well as why these rules were created, so we can determine whether this is a new process or a replacement for an old one. Also, please provide the results for the following combinations so that we can see how the algorithm works when it selects the person with the one name from the following options: FirstName LastName (Harish Chowdhary) LastName FirstName (Chowdhary Harish) Only the first name is used. (Harish) Multiple places state that guidelines are only for reference and are not binding. Here due to the limited pool of applicants who are applying; in most cases, the result would be the same/similar. Non availability of the requested data would conclude the results are not valid. I remember a very important discussion was started at IETF 100 in order to incorporate human perspectives into standards and protocols such as the RFC discussed here; it may not have any issues, but the implementation may have relied on similar inputs from a very small input domain. Most importantly, because only a small number of experts are participating, the lottery system should not preclude active participation. The goal is to treat everyone as a person, not just a number in a lottery. Thanks, Harish Chowdhary On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:39 PM Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org> wrote: Hi Harish, Thanks for your email. I see two questions and let me respond to them separately. Regarding your concern that the random selection always select the alpha A first, I have double-checked the result using two implementations of RFC 3797 and both yields the same responses. I have also checked and confirmed that the randomness we use follows the guidelines laid out in section 3 of RFC3797. Based on these, I concluded that we have followed RFC 3797. I have also checked with other communities that use RFC3797 and did not find evidence that it always selects the alpha A first. Based on these, and unless proven otherwise, I conclude the selection is valid. Regarding your question “I hope travel support should be even and given to member who never received it and based upon some rationale rather than a lottery,” this selection has been done as outlined in the IETF Supported Travelers Funding Guidelines attached. The guidelines do not preclude an RSSAC Caucus member from being considered for travel support even if they received travel support in the past. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions. Best Steve From: Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:33 PM To: Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org> Cc: Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin@icann.org>, RSSAC Caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Subject: [Ext] Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan Dear All, Please see results of IETF 104. Results Key String: 15.21.29.35.54.60./6.7.10.11.19.27.37./6739./ 4. Daniel Migault 6. Anand Raje 11. Amir Qayyum 10. Alejandro Acosta 1. Robert Story 5. Ihtisham Khalid 9. Dr AbdulkarIm Oloyede 2. Ramanou BIAOU 12. MOHIT BATRA 3. George Russell Mundy 14. Anupam Agrawal 8. Shailesh Gupta 13. Rao Naveed Bin Rais 7. Harish Chowdhary The funded travelers are: Daniel Migault, Anand Raje, Amir Qayyum and Alejandro Acosta Any suggestions please. I hope travel support should be even and given to memeber who never recieved it and based upon some rationale rather than a lottery. Thanks, Harish Chowdhary On Wed, 4 Jan, 2023, 9:32 pm Steve Sheng, <steve.sheng@icann.org> wrote: Dear RSSAC Caucus, Please see the result of the random selection. Source of Randomness: #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023: 3 10 20 21 29 45 46 (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]) #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023: 1 14 24 34 45 47 (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]) #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday 3 January 2023: 10387 (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]) Result: 5. Anand Raje 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais 3. Hafiz Farooq 2. Harish Chowdhary 4. Mallory Knodel Thus, Anand Raje and Rao Naveed Bin Rais will receive funding of IETF 116. Best Steve From: Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org> Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:49 AM To: Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin@icann.org>, "rssac-caucus@icann.org" <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Subject: Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan Dear RSSAC Caucus, Sorry for the delay in handling this random selection. Here is a list of RSSAC Caucus members to be entered into the random selection: Rao Naveed Bin Rais Harish Chowdhary Hafiz Farooq Mallory Knodel Anand Raje Number of Slots: 2 Source of Randomness: #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023 (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]) #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023 (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]) #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday 3 January 2023 (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]) A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by Staff on Wed 4 January 2023, using the RFC 3797 method. The results (as well as other data) will be announced to the list on the same day, after which you can verify the result yourself. Best regards, Steve Sheng From: rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin@icann.org> Date: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:37 PM To: "rssac-caucus@icann.org" <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Subject: Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan Dear RSSAC Caucus Members, We have received the following requests for travel support to IETF 116. Rao Naveed Bin Rais Harish Chowdhary Hafiz Farooq Mallory Knodel Abdulkarim Oloyede Anand Raje Dessalegn Yehuala According to the RSSAC Caucus IETF Supported Travelers Funding Guidelines, RSSAC Admin Committee is allocating two trip slots to the following RSSAC Caucus members: Abdulkarim Oloyede Dessalegn Yehuala For the remaining two slots, we will do a verifiable random selection as specified by RFC 3797. A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by Staff on Thursday 22 December 2022, using the RFC 3797 method. The results (as well as other data) will be announced to the list on the same day, after which you can verify the result yourself. Best regards, Ozan Sahin From: rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin@icann.org> Date: 23 November 2022 Wednesday 17:12 To: "rssac-caucus@icann.org" <rssac-caucus@icann.org> Subject: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan Dear RSSAC Caucus members, RSSAC Admin Committee understands that ICANN organization may be sharing new sponsered travel information and guidancefor ICANN community to attend non-ICANN events in the next weeks. As a result, travel support to attend even-numbered IETF meetings may be available once again. In order to not miss the relevant notice periods, RSSAC Admin Committee would like to start the selection process to identify sponsered RSSAC Caucus members to attend the next IETF meeting. IETF 116 will take place in Yokohama, Japan from 25 - 31 March 2023. Pending the travel advice from ICANN organization, there may be travel support for up to four (4) RSSAC Caucus Members to attend IETF 116 including economy class airfare, accommodation, registration, and per diem. As you may remember, RSSAC approved guidelines for RSSAC Caucus members requesting travel support to attend even-numbered IETF meetings in 2019. Please see the approved guidelines attached. Depending on how many requests we receive, the RSSAC Administrative Committee may need to make the selection based on the selection criteria outlined in the guidelines. If you would like to apply and be considered for travel support, please complete the following form by Friday, 2 December 2022: https://forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9 [forms.gle] Best, Ozan Sahin Policy Development Support Senior Specialist Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Mobile: +90 533 641 0007 Skype: ozan.sahin.icann www.icann.org _______________________________________________ rssac-caucus mailing list rssac-caucus@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rssac-caucus _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Thanks, Harish Chowdhary, Technology Analyst www.indiaig.in [indiaig.in] _______________________________________________ rssac-caucus mailing list rssac-caucus@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rssac-caucus _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Jeff Osborn President Internet Systems Consortium PO Box 360 Newmarket, NH 03857