Dear colleagues – I also do agree with Kathy’s approach, but at the same time I support James’ concerns on the lack of lack of clarity on who in ICANN should do what. Unfortunately, I cannot formulate all possible answers to such open questions, but I am ready to participate if Kathy takes the lead to make her proposal more precise. Rgds, Michael From: rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of James M. Bladel Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:06 PM To: Kathy Kleiman Cc: rt4-whois@icann.org Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Centralized Whois Query system run by ICANN - Scope and concerns I don't oppose this recommendation, but my issue with this is that we are once again being too vague in what we're asking. ICANN: Who? Staff? The Board? The GNSO? Contracted 3rd party? Set up: How? By launching a PDP? Sending out an RFP? Deadline? Are we confident that this group has considered all of the consequences to privacy, security, access, SLAs, etc.? (Reasons why a PDP can be more helpful for things like this...) Thanks-- J. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Centralized Whois Query system run by ICANN - Scope and concerns From: Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>> Date: Wed, November 30, 2011 9:56 am To: rt4-whois@icann.org<mailto:rt4-whois@icann.org> All, Is this the current version of the Lutz proposal now in circulation? I thought it applied only to a centralized database of the current "thin registries," namely .COM and .NET. If so, I can see the advantages and support sending it out as a recommendation in the draft report. But if this is a single database of all registries, thick and thin, now and in the future, I think we creating a database problem. It's an enormous amount of data and creates a focal point for abuse, for warehousing, etc. It's the type of policing job that ICANN has never had to do, and is not operationally set up to do. So thought summary: If ICANN is helping remedy a bad situation by operating a single registry for .COM and .NET to fix a historical problem, I think I am OK for now (pending review of the draft with registries -- after publication is fine). One database of all Whois information to Rule the World, not so good. RECOMMENDATION EDIT: Detailed recommendation: ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual website to allow "unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information" **FOR .COM AND .NET, THE EXISTING "THIN REGISTRIES"** even for those people which have problems with the plain WHOIS protocol. The WHOIS information should be collected by following the thin WHOIS approach starting at whois.iana.org<http://whois.iana.org>. The service should display the contractural relationships which are revealed by the WHOIS referals in a clear and understandable way. The results should be mark clearly the relevant information "including registrant, technical, ** DELETE BILLING** billing, and administrative contact" data. ** NOTE: Billing data, which includes credit cards Folks, is simply not displayed in any other Whois search results. It is only registrant, technical, and admin contact.** Best, Kathy

Proposal:

Summary: ICANN should set up and maintain a web interface to access all the WHOIS services in order to ease access to the WHOIS data.

Presumption: The AoC requires that "ICANN implement measures to maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information, including registrant, technical, billing, and administrative contact information."

Observation: An User Insight Report came up with the following results: + Almost nobody is aware of whois + Almost nobody is able to query a whois server correctly + Whois queries were done on websites which occur first in the search engine results. Usually those pages are overloaded with advertisments.

Detailed recommendation: ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual website to allow "unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information" even for those people which have problems with the plain WHOIS protocol.

The WHOIS information should be collected by following the thin WHOIS approach starting at whois.iana.org<http://whois.iana.org>. The service should display the contractural relationships which are revealed by the WHOIS referals in a clear and understandable way. The results should be mark clearly the relevant information "including registrant, technical, billing, and administrative contact" data.

The server needs to be run by ICANN itself, because the "timely, unrestricted and public access" is usually rate limited, stripped or even blocked by the various WHOIS server administrators for uncontractual third party access. ICANN itself is the only party having the power to overcome those limits using its contratual compliance. _______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois@icann.org<mailto:Rt4-whois@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois

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Hi James Thanks for raising these points. Can you suggest some language which you think would work? Also, Kathy raised a good point about whether this is limited to thin registries (.com, .net) or all? I don't think we've ever discussed this. Kind regards Emily On 30 November 2011 16:06, James M. Bladel <jbladel@godaddy.com> wrote:

I don't oppose this recommendation, but my issue with this is that we are once again being too vague in what we're asking.

ICANN: Who? Staff? The Board? The GNSO? Contracted 3rd party?

Set up: How? By launching a PDP? Sending out an RFP?

Deadline?

Are we confident that this group has considered all of the consequences to privacy, security, access, SLAs, etc.? (Reasons why a PDP can be more helpful for things like this...)

Thanks--

J.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Centralized Whois Query system run by ICANN - Scope and concerns From: Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com> Date: Wed, November 30, 2011 9:56 am To: rt4-whois@icann.org

All, Is this the current version of the Lutz proposal now in circulation? I thought it applied only to a centralized database of the current "thin registries," namely .COM and .NET. If so, I can see the advantages and support sending it out as a recommendation in the draft report.

But if this is a single database of all registries, thick and thin, now and in the future, I think we creating a database problem. It's an enormous amount of data and creates a focal point for abuse, for warehousing, etc. It's the type of policing job that ICANN has never had to do, and is not operationally set up to do.

So thought summary: If ICANN is helping remedy a bad situation by operating a single registry for .COM and .NET to fix a historical problem, I think I am OK for now (pending review of the draft with registries -- after publication is fine). One database of all Whois information to Rule the World, not so good.

RECOMMENDATION EDIT:

Detailed recommendation: ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual website to allow "unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information" **FOR .COM AND .NET, THE EXISTING "THIN REGISTRIES"** even for those people which have problems with the plain WHOIS protocol.

The WHOIS information should be collected by following the thin WHOIS approach starting at whois.iana.org. The service should display the contractural relationships which are revealed by the WHOIS referals in a clear and understandable way. The results should be mark clearly the relevant information "including registrant, technical, ** DELETE BILLING** billing, and administrative contact" data.

** NOTE: Billing data, which includes credit cards Folks, is simply not displayed in any other Whois search results. It is only registrant, technical, and admin contact.**

Best, Kathy

...

Proposal:

Summary: ICANN should set up and maintain a web interface to access all the WHOIS services in order to ease access to the WHOIS data.

Presumption: The AoC requires that "ICANN implement measures to maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information, including registrant, technical, billing, and administrative contact information."

Observation: An User Insight Report came up with the following results: + Almost nobody is aware of whois + Almost nobody is able to query a whois server correctly + Whois queries were done on websites which occur first in the search engine results. Usually those pages are overloaded with advertisments.

Detailed recommendation: ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual website to allow "unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information" even for those people which have problems with the plain WHOIS protocol.

The WHOIS information should be collected by following the thin WHOIS approach starting at whois.iana.org. The service should display the contractural relationships which are revealed by the WHOIS referals in a clear and understandable way. The results should be mark clearly the relevant information "including registrant, technical, billing, and administrative contact" data.

The server needs to be run by ICANN itself, because the "timely, unrestricted and public access" is usually rate limited, stripped or even blocked by the various WHOIS server administrators for uncontractual third party access. ICANN itself is the only party having the power to overcome those limits using its contratual compliance. _______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois

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